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I tire of being called a Windows fanboy when I say anything negative about Apple. Explaining that I use, like and experiment with various OSes including Linux and BSD usually has little or no effect.
Pfft, still PC platform, PC == Windoze, everyone knows that. And there's only Mac v.s. PC, everyone knows that, too. Like.. duh!Originally Posted by watercooled
CAT-THE-FIFTH (18-03-2011),watercooled (18-03-2011)
Those types!
They are often a reason I find it hard to go to one of the larger photography clubs in London, soon as someone finds out I work as a software n systems architect they start to think that grown ups use macs. Now don't get me wrong, I do find that solaris is akin to been phalated by a lion, not as plesurable as it should be and with constant fear of it getting a lot worse, but they are just so incredibly amazed that macs just don't get a look in because their too slow/insecure/**** apis/bugger to manage etc.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
watercooled (18-03-2011)
Why wait. This whole thread is an exercise in wall-to-wall smugness!
Take this glorious example of a lack of self-awareness. I thought it was a pisstake at first:
Those types, indeed...
Must say I love your analogies.
http://mono-android.net/
Huge chunks of the iPhone app store are .NET apps via MonoTouch and Unity. Same now applies for Android.
Me, I'm waiting for the WebOS port.
i'm not taking your comment out of context, and your following posts confirm that to me. your final line quoted above is a perfect example of your ignorant views. and just to be clear, i'm using the word by dictionary definition and not intended as an insult. you are making a sweeping generalisation based on your small minded understanding, in the same way as some may think of all young male drivers to be boy racers. the world simply isn't like that. you also give the impression that you lack understanding of the product(s) too. you don't appear to have owned or even used for a any full time period the product either, so you are making a statement purely based on prejudice and bias as you don't own or use the products and you have a irrational dislike of them
i've never been an apple fan and i've been fairly open about it. i'm sick of fanboys waffling on about them with similar ignorance and bias. the only people i know who own macs are clueless about computers to say the least, but they have money and some of them may have bought them because they look nice, a couple bought them because they work in industries where mac is the standard (not going into the argument that a pc can do the same things, maybe even better), and what i found is that for those people, the mac was perhaps the best choice, as osx has a fisher price type front end that hides the advanced commands. most mac users i know just use them to browse the internet or use the apple software that came with it to videochat and make home movies on dvd. another is a musician but doesn't know much about computers, so mac is a good choice as you just plug in your hardware and the software works without too much mucking about. in fact that persons dad also uses a mac for music. most mac users i know at least just use them for basic surfing and itunes and osx does that easily
way back in the day i used apple and ibm computers and when the original macintosh came out it was miles ahead of pc's using DOS. you had a GUI and mouse and desktop publishing was streets ahead of using wordperfect. but then windows came along and mac just stagnated. in the last 10 years or so mac improved, but the hardware was overpriced and restricted, and the software was also restricted, and far less of it as mac was less common than windows. i had to work with macs for a while and i found them horrible to work with. they crashed often, users couldn't open files or use discs that most people sent them as it seemed everyone else in the world was using windows, the discs got stuck in drives and they couldn't get them out (because you had to turn the mac on and off and hold down a key when you turned it back on to spit it out!), and generally most people admitted they were a pain to work with. they also had to have a windows pc in the office as there wasn't a decent accounts package for mac
i remember hearing about apple turning to intel chips and discussing this with an apple fanboy i knew who didn't believe what i said. it actually took a couple of years or so for intel chips to be announced and used, and i think it turned out that apple had been testing them for a year or two before i had that conversation. this person was another musician with a hatred of windows
when the hackintosh scene started, i installed osx on a spare drive on my laptop just because i could, and i could dual boot into xp/vista/win7(later) and osx for no real reason other than because i could and i wanted to show my mac user friends that i had osx running on a machine that cost a third of theirs. through the install and setting up process and playing around i became more knowledgable about macs to the degree where i'm now the tech support line to my mac owning friends, as they never took the time to find out how the machines did much more than surf the web and load music to ipods
when the iphone came out in the states i thought it was crazy that people were lining up for days outside stores to buy a mobile phone, particularly one that cost so much and one that none of them had actually seen in the flesh before, nevermind used, so they were lining up in droves to buy something blindly that they didn't know what it was like. as much as i like gadgets, when asked if i was going to get one i said no. i usually bought the nicest phone on the market at the time but then kept it for a few years as i usually only needed basic functionality, so spending daft money was pointless to me
when my contract came up for renewal i looked around stores for the best phone for my needs, which was primarily web surfing and then email, and i tried all the smartphones and found they didn't live up to expectations. then the salesguy showed me his iphone, and pretty much instantly i got to grips with it and it did what i wanted far better than every other phone, but i wasn't sure about the price so i didn't buy it. i then did a bit of research and found that i could buy the phone and instead of signing up for a contract through itunes i could hacktivate it myself and keep on using my cheap o2 contract. o2 gave me £100 cashback for signing up for another 12 months on a low rate contract, i bought the phone outright and ended up having not only the best phone that i had found and researched for my needs, but at a much lower cost than any other option
so who's the idiot now? i wasn't fooled by advertising, i researched hard and i got an excellent deal. and i must say that in the first few days/weeks/months i thought it was one of the best gadgets i had ever bought. i won't even mention how much the internet use came in handy and saved me from a lot of problems
the newer generation forms came and went, 3g and 3gs, but when i saw the leaked iphone 4 it looked so good i wanted one. i knew that even if the specs were the same as the 3gs it would be an improvement over my old model, and ultimately i sold my original phone for £150 and got the new one for £210 or so, a small price to upgrade and have a brand new higher specced model
before settling for the iphone 4 i again did my research, i was open minded towards android and other options (what other options though?), and in comparing specs and usability, handset size (i like a slim small phone to fit in my jeans pocket), i personally preferred the iphone ios and the android users admitted they liked the iphone and what it could do over android, but the price was what put them off
IOS was around long before android, so many people bought iphones before android came out or at least came anywhere near the maturity that it's at today (which isn't fully mature as far as i'm concerned - and let's be clear IOS isn't perfect and the iphone and IOS suffers from the same apple restrictions - unless you jailbreak like i have, and then it does all the things that android fans rave about that they can do that iphone can't). in fact if you have a pre iphone4 model you can even run android on your iphone, dual boot too. but you can't run IOS on an android phone at least not yet
so to summarise, there are people who know far more about the subject than yourself who made the right decision to buy the item you despise. there are others who know less than you but still made the right choices. in the same way that i describe osx as the fisher price operating system, IOS is the same for smartphones, but in my opinion that's perfect for smartphones, as usually you just want to make calls and send texts, and you don't want to need a degree in computing to do that. in the same way that windows copied the old mac GUI, android is basically a copy of the apple IOS. when the iphone came out there weren't any phones like it on the market, and know most new phones copy not only it's styling but it's interface. mac weren't the first to market mp3 players by far, i had mp3 players in the 90s, and i remember a creative labs hard disc based player long before the first ipod, but they popularised mp3 players in a big way, but whilst iphones were't the first smartphones as you had the nokia commander before it, they really changed the game (that sounds like a steve jobs comment) and made everyone follow them this time
and i really like my iphone 4 as much as i hate osx, and that's a lot. at least you can run windows on your mac now
spoon_ (18-03-2011)
If you had an iPhone or iPad, it would capitalise all those "i"s and also the start of sentences for you.
Sent from my iPad.
Last edited by mikerr; 18-03-2011 at 10:29 AM.
Forgive me for being dictionary-defined ignorant, too, but I simply can't bring myself to even watch these adverts!
I saw the recent Apple 'Anti-windows 7' ads a while back, and felt pretty violated by those. Don't get me wrong, I also detest the windows ads I've seen, but for different reasons.
The windows 7 adverts were nauseating, but at least they were based purely around what the new features were. From reading this description of the iPhone ads, that seems similar so far. But the previous Mac adverts infuriated me no end, going on about how windows 7 was awful and if you're migrating your system it's got so much more baggage than buying a mac... There were so many arguments against that point, and it's not Apple's place to tell me what to expect if I move from one Microsoft operating system to another. This is like political parties telling me what their rivals will do: I am capable of making that judgement myself, I can read and I am informed. I want YOUR party/company to tell me what YOU/YOUR product does/will do, and I want you to SHUT UP about your opinions of any other party/company.
However, I am a person who actively refuses to buy goods based on advertisements. There's little room that an advertisement has to not irritate me: if it slags off the competition, that's a big no-no; if it tries too hard to impress, or shows smugness, again big black mark against that product for me. Take the 'go compare' ads. No, please, take them. I will NEVER use that site (and am glad I never have) - purely as a direct result of those adverts.
I realise this is a blinkered view, and it may mean I lose out in some areas if a product really is good, but I can't help it.
I want to point out at this juncture that I'm not a microsoft or apple fanboy (or Nvidia/ATI for that matter), and I will actively avoid adverts if I'm researching products just in case one of them puts me against the market leading product! I would certainly have a Mac desktop at home if it was cheaper/comparably priced in comparison to building a system myself, and all the games I play/want to play will run on it. To date, that hasn't been the case, so I've been forced to use Windows 7, which I find somewhat more stable than Mac OSX in my experience, and about equal in terms of performance, usability and aesthetics.
At work, I have a macbook pro and a mac pro at each of two sites. In my field, the software is very specialist and is largely developed and tested on macs. While out of some principle I have about cost/performance ratio, I'd prefer to go with a *nix system, that's not the way it is at work, and in any case the way we use the macs is to all intents and purposes the same way as we would use a Linux/Unix system. At home, I use a PC, mainly because I enjoy building them, and I want the best value for money - Apple simply don't offer that for a desktop system, and added to that many of the games I play are windows only (but kudos to Steam for pushing the cross-platform games!).
When it comes to phones, I haven't used an iPhone ever, and so cannot comment on how good they are. People seem to love them, and that is very positive for my opinions of them, but Apple's advertising and the smugness of many of the users I've met detracts from that otherwise positive impression. I feel I am well placed to make balanced comments about the merits of Apple and Microsoft, as I use macs and pcs in equal measure day in, day out. The smug fanboys (of each camp, but oh the Apple ones are so much more smug...) are less well informed, sadly. I'm still using a Nokia 5800 Xpressmusic because I'm a miser when it comes to phones and I got a good deal on a contract with this one a while back - it does everything I need of it and has great battery life so I'm happy for now. However, when I come to look for a new phone (eventually), I am very hopeful that there will be other contenders to the iphone which allow me to stay away from Apple's flagship phone. I know this is a horribly biased and ignorant opinion, but the smug apple advertising and users put me right off. And I'm a mac user. Sigh.
Roo
(sent from my macbook pro...)
aidanjt (18-03-2011),CAT-THE-FIFTH (18-03-2011)
Even though intensely annoying, those Mac vs PC adverts were very successful.
As Apple gains market share, I can't help thinking the smugness will start increasingly working against them.
They are just so good ... at marketing.
Personally I am more a fan of WebOS but sadly the hardware sucks ATM.
The Mac OS copied the GUI overlay seen on the Xerox Alto like many other companies. Xerox PARC came up with many innovations seen in modern home PCs today.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 18-03-2011 at 11:27 AM.
TBH, every company attacks other companies. Apple does it. Microsoft does it. Every company does it.
As for the ad and the statement "if you dont have an iPhone, you don't have iPhone", it think it reflects the identity of Apple pretty well.
To Apple fanboys, it has the perceived smugness/superioty of Apple products that they love.
To the rest, the statement is stating the obvious and clearly stupid and silly.
Comparing Windows and Mac OS is pointless. Mac OS runs on very limited hardware whereas Windows runs on a much wider range of equipment. The lower cost of Windows also meant more people had access to computers in the long term and it also promoted more competition among hardware companies. This meant much cheaper home computing hardware and development of more unified standards (not necessarily the best but you need to start somewhere).
For example, imagine PC gaming today without Windows?? It would not be as relatively cheap and successful IMHO.
The same goes with Android. In the long term it is going to be the more important OS as it will bring smartphone and tablet technology to a much larger percentage of the world.
watercooled (18-03-2011)
Yep - but preaching to the converted doesn't gain you new customers...
The irony is, OS X runs on the exact same hardware as Windows, only Apple doesn't like you tainting their blessed operating system with blasphemous generically supplied hardware.
CAT-THE-FIFTH (18-03-2011),watercooled (18-03-2011)
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