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About LinkBacksWell I realised Apple's strategy was never to go for the folks who are knowledgeable. More just the general public...and there is a lot more of the public and those folksOriginally Posted by mikerr
Well I realised Apple's strategy was never to go for the folks who are knowledgeable. More just the general public...and there is a lot more of the public and those folks
watercooled (18-03-2011)
that's true, i was aware of that, but as i said, windows copied the mac GUI, in the same way that some bands copied green day, who copied the clash. so the clash came first, but they only indirectly influenced the bands influenced by green day. if you are in a band influenced by green day rather than the clash, then you should be ashamed of yourself. if you enjoy listening to those bands then you should be ashamed
i suppose the same could be said for the ipod that i mentioned before, apple copied other people and i think it would be truer to say others copied apple than the others just jumped on the bandwagon. it's perhaps also the same with tablets, every man and his dog seem to be making an ipad clone. apple weren't the first with tablets, but they were the most (if not only) successful ones
and why are the succesful? the marketing. not the price, not the style, not the specs, not even the usability, as if you compare the competitors they are usually cheaper, the styling isn't exactly horrible, the specs are usually higher and they aren't usually that more awkward to work. in fact when it comes to ipods, having to use itunes makes them a big step down in my opinion, but unfortunately no-one else does a 160gb alternative to the ipod classic. you either have smaller flash based devices or larger "multimedia" video based devices with screens. i'd love a audio only 250gb 1.8" drive based player that does flac and ape and drag and drop
CAT-THE-FIFTH (18-03-2011),watercooled (18-03-2011)
Dislike of marketing is largest SINGLE factor for me, like I said plenty of other smaller practical reasons but add them all up and they are the majority, I'd say for me it's 33% smug marketing and 67% practical reasons (such as no physical keyboard, paying extra for tethering).
For me it has little to do with price, I'll pay for the latest gadgets if I want it enough and typically spend several hundred a month on technology of some sort, several thousand a year in total, but none of it is Apple made, and a part of the reason for that is what I see as dreadfully smug marketing, it doesn't attract me in, it's a counter to my interest, which for me makes it bad marketing. The best marketing should attract some people and just be neutral to the one's not interested, it shouldn't actively turn some people off a product.
If there was no marketing turn-off OR no technical issues I'd probably be more attracted to Apple products, but the combo together just adds up to a big fat no thanks.
Not saying ALL owners do the "look at my iPhone" thing, I too know some perfectly nice iPhone owners for whom the limitations that put me off have not been a problem, and who mostly agree with me on the marketing but put that aside for the product (as I probably would were it not for the technical issues). I have however met iPosers, and like all posers I just want to whack them with a spade, as with many expensive objects there will always be some people who feel the need to wave it about like a penis at male stripper show. iPhones inspire a lot more posing than other phones, despite not being that much more expensive, it's certainly not the same sort of differential seen with top ends cars or the like, and that makes iPosing look extra silly.
I meant to reply to this thread before but forgot for some reason.
Seeing as HEXUS is mostly a bubbling pot of hatred for Apple & it seems ok to make generalisations, sweeping statements based on little evidence except anecdotes & general anti-Apple-ness I'd like to say the below...
[Unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence]I see more people being snobby & showing of that they own an Android phone than I EVER have seen anyone with an iPhone doing this. All I've ever had is 'look at this cool new app' - That of course applies to all platforms so I just don't see the show off factor Apple bashers seem to suggest is so prevelant.[/Unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence]
Fanboys are as bad as Apple bashers for the same reasons, it's just their arguements are reversed.
To judge someone based on their phone "If I see someone with anything apart from an iPhone I assume they did research on it" (not quite the wording but same effect) is plain stupid...
NB/ I own a HTC Desire, it bores me to tears although it's a nice-ish phone, I'd happily swap for an iPhone 4 for the APPS no other reason, I find the Android market to be pants & couldn't care less what brand of hardware I own as long as I get to piss about while commuting to work by shooting zombies or flinging birds at pigs by playing thos & other stupid & (in the grand scheme of things) pointless games.
Apples' marketing is smug and arrogant, it annoys the hell out of me. It's certainly not alone & plenty of other brands do exactly the same so to be frank I couldn't care less what their adverts say, it's an advert for gods' sake..
Last edited by Rob_B; 18-03-2011 at 12:19 PM.
spoon_ (18-03-2011)
i never liked the apple v mac adverts and had not used an Iphone until i used my wifes recently. I have used android for a fair while now and i love android as an os. I recently got a HTC hd2 not because i hate apple but because i love playing with my gadgets and i rooted it ditched the hideous windows mobile 6.5 and went android 2.2 and will soon go to 2.3 and may even try windows 7,
Anyway the point of this i like andrid my wife has an iphone 3gs and she really likes it she uses the books app alot. For me i wasn't that fussed about it but one thing i realised two weeks ago when i went to the apple store in regent street is that alot of people think apple is cool, I mean Jesus people were waiting outside half hour before it opened just to play on ipads and such.
but the thing that made me think hang on apple isn't that bad was the service i got while i was in the store.I had a genius bar appointment to get the missus phone fixed (it has been constantly dropping signal whenever she goes to text for months) The guy in there Joseph was his name (he was Ginger and had a beard But we didn't hold that against him) Took the phone off tested it and after about 15 minutes came back and said he'd run all the tests but he couldnt find any actual problem with her phone, At this moment i am thinking what a wasted journey and now she's gonna be whining and moaning about it forever. But as i was thinking this i heard the words " even though we cant find any issue with the phone we'll replace it free of charge as you are in warranty and hopefully this will solve your problem"
That changed my opinion of apple because your not just buying a brand your buying a service And after sales service is how we measure a company. Most people here love SCAN They have great after sales service. A lot of people here Hate Overclockers for the opposite reason their after sales suck.
Apple love them or Hate them have worked hard on their image and their reputation and thats what you are really buying when you get an iphone or ipad. Yeah you can get something slightly better but are you getting the same all round Package?
spoon_ (18-03-2011)
Most Apple products are sold at a premium and as you know Apple(at least in the past) made a direct cut of the mobile phone contracts for the iPhone.
Also their customer service is not generally that great in many instances too!
For example they kept quiet about the issues with the G4 eMacs in the UK which were sold to many universities and educational institutions. There was a recall of them in the US but the UK arm of Apple kept quiet. Luckily, I did know about this problem so when the eMac at one of my previous workplaces started having issues I told my boss what to tell them and they repaired it. OTH,I knew quite a few labs which threw their G4 eMacs away. What a nice waste of taxpayers and private funding.
Then there was the problem with iPhone 4 and remember how Apple dragged their feet on the problem and even supplying the bumpers initially??
There was also the issues with the overheating MacBook Pros and Apple dragged their feet on that one too (I knew people who were affected by that problem). It was down to shoddy QC from the OEM (Foxconn IIRC).
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 18-03-2011 at 01:21 PM.
And the frequent chain of exploding (non-replaceable) batteries.
However,in defence of Apple I do think that the ability of being able to take a product into a store to get it checked then and there is quite a good idea.
I'm a bit short of time to read all of that right now, or indeed the larger posts following it, but I did see the word ignorant thrown up again which annoys me a bit. If I was ignorant I'd probably have an iPhone TBH. I'm really not, and I don't see what's so hard to understand about the statement I made.
Apple often = not much thought, follow the crowd+marketing, get fleeced.
Other often = some thought gone into it, possibly recommendation from friends/reviews etc.
Note often != always.
again a great example of being ignorant
why bother responding to a post if you aren't going to read what people have taken the time to specifically respond to yours? and if you bothered reading it you would see it wasn't even insulting in the slightest
if you bother taking the time to research you might understand more and be less ignorant. it's not like it would take more than a couple of minutes to read
I get what you are saying and agree apple have been shoddy in the past, However i remember the iphone 4 thing and not really sure that apple dragged there feet that much over it. someone found the issue apple tested and verified it and sorted it pretty swiftly. I've seen far worse.
I think my point was anyway that we all bash apple for being overpriced and only owned by people that wear TWEED and everyone will disagree as you always get fanboys that swear their piece of tech is the bestest ever in the world and your piece of tech is poo but at the end of it all the apple brand is not quite as evil as the haters make out.
Obviously when i die if steve jobs is waiting at heaven and tells me a clause in the iphone contract i took out for my wife says he owns my soul and i have to go to HEll instead, I take everythin i just said back
seeing people saying the have an actual hatred of advertising/marketing and some will avoid buying something because of advertising is just as bad as buying something simply because of advertising
ergo you are just as bad as the people you are putting down for buying something because of advertising, perhaps even worse as you don't really know if someone bought simply because of advertising, which i would imagine isn't that much, as most people splashing out the sums of money for apple products would probably have at least one other reason for doing so, they wouldn't just buy something they don't want or need because of an advert. if they had a perfectly good phone they were happy with, it's unlikely an advert is going to make them upgrade, but if they wanted a new phone an advert may sway them in that direction. that's not half as bad as avoiding something because of an advert, that's just irrational, perhaps stupid even. and having a hatred of adverts? what's that about? no-one likes adverts, but most people just ignore them or let them wash over. if you hate adverts you must have a pretty easy going simplistic life, as most people have far more important concerns to worry about such a thing
as for showing off, i've not came across anyone showing off an iphone in real life, in fact when people hear i have an iphone they ask to see it, or if they see it on my desk they ask to see it. i usually keep it out the way and don't tell anyone i have one as i don't want it stolen, but it's not so comfortable to have it in my trouser pocket whilst at my desk, so i leave it out. only this week i mentioned something i could do on my phone and two geeky android users were extremly impressed, although i presumed android could pretty much do all the same things as iphone. sometimes android users seem to want to show off the phone to show that they bought it not because it was cheaper than the iphone, but because it's better, but then i usually show them that the iphone can do all those things and more
i don't quite understand the fanboy thing where people have to justify a purchase by not only stubborn mindedly standing up for their item, but slagging off the competition. such as xbox vs ps3 and windows vs osx. if said individual had created the item, or even played a tiny part in the creation, then fair enough, pride in your work and all that jazz, but you just bought a gadget for a few hundred quid, it's not a major purchase like a car or property, is a couple of hundred quid for a phone or games console, there's no black and white between good and bad, it's just one preference over another. both have pros and cons. but why defend a purchase so strongly? why criticise other people for buying something? it's not your money, you don't have to live with the item, and them owning it has no impact whatsoever on your life. and if they do act like a smug git, then so what? all the better for you if you aren't a smug git, as surely the non smug non git is best? or are you jealous of the smug git?
I didn't take the time to read the whole thing because I had a very limited break and I have no interest in reading a huge post which starts off insulting me, and frankly I've heard it all before. It seems a few people have understood what I meant so I'm happy with that.
If you knew me in person, or actually knew me at all for that matter, you'd know I'm probably one of the most un-ignorant people you're ever likely to meet, which has gotten me where I am to day. My friends and I know I'm not so I don't really care what some randomer who spends probably a good 20 minutes writing out an (at least initially) insulting post has to say.
Oh and subscription removed to prevent another pointless Apple is teh best debate which is where this thread will undoubtedly end up...
seriously, if you bother to read it you will see it's not an insult, and you can read it when you aren't at work. posting something and not bothering to read the replies or selectively read and ignore parts before commenting is as bad as trolling as far as i'm concerned. so have a proper read in your own time, understand what is being said and make a proper reply, or not, but replying to something without reading it and completely missing the point is pointless
You are spot on. People who deliberately avoid specific products because of the advertising campaign associated with them are just as, if not more, ignorant than those who buy a product purely because of the advertising campaign.ergo you are just as bad as the people you are putting down for buying something because of advertising, perhaps even worse as you don't really know if someone bought simply because of advertising, which i would imagine isn't that much, as most people splashing out the sums of money for apple products would probably have at least one other reason for doing so, they wouldn't just buy something they don't want or need because of an advert. if they had a perfectly good phone they were happy with, it's unlikely an advert is going to make them upgrade, but if they wanted a new phone an advert may sway them in that direction. that's not half as bad as avoiding something because of an advert, that's just irrational, perhaps stupid even. and having a hatred of adverts? what's that about? no-one likes adverts, but most people just ignore them or let them wash over. if you hate adverts you must have a pretty easy going simplistic life, as most people have far more important concerns to worry about such a thing
I remember a while ago there was some research that indicated that Apple customers were actually more informed than most because there's a more conscious decision to pay the extra that's required so it takes more time and consideration than just buying the-next-best-but-cheaper thing.Apple often = not much thought, follow the crowd+marketing, get fleeced.
Other often = some thought gone into it, possibly recommendation from friends/reviews etc.
Overall, personally I think that anyone who lets advertising influence their purchasing decisions (whether pro or con) is short-sighted at best.
I love how this has desended into mudslinging. I'd like to take the time to point out I LOOK DOWN ON JAVA DEVS. because I think thats important right now.
Also its really funny, no one can defend the smug nature of the advertising, so instead of that been the issue its become all those ripping on it.
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