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Thread: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

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    News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    The platform transition period makes for some confusing messaging.
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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    It turns out the N9 runs on version 1.2 of the supposedly abandoned MeeGo OS, which Nokia is calling ‘Harmattan. This was the codename of a version of Maemo - the Linux mobile OS Nokia contributed to the MeeGo project - which implies Harmattan is a fork in the MeeGo roadmap away from whatever work Intel is doing.
    OMG, how stupid is that! Although I'm confused - is this MeeGo 1.2 or some Frankenstein OS based on an earlier release?

    Looking at the pictures and I'm impressed - that is a nice looking device. Suppose that this is encouraging for whatever WP7 device (or devices) final escape from Nokia next year.

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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    Looking at the pictures and I'm impressed - that is a nice looking device. Suppose that this is encouraging for whatever WP7 device (or devices) final escape from Nokia next year.
    This. It's arguably better specced than my Desire HD.

    Pricing may be.. adventurous.. given the circumstances. It will be interesting to see.

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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    I never believed Meego to be a dead platform from Nokia's point of view.

    It is widely believed that there can only be three mainstream smartphone ecosystems, in addition to niche platforms such as RIM, and with Android and Apple IOS occupying two of those positions the race to be the third depends massively on the perception of momentum.

    Nokia want to be (a part of) that third platform and they didn’t have confidence that MeeGo could take them there.

    But even if adopting Win7 mobile for smartphones was a ‘necessary’ choice for Nokia, what does it mean for open platforms like Meego whose competitive advantage is enhanced by its cross-platform development environment?

    On the surface it looks pretty bad:

    1. MeeGo is no longer a smartphone platform, it has now become a smartphone ‘project’ which will limit itself a single 2011 release before morphing into R&D for future concepts. What this means is that stage 5 of 5 will probably not attract much commercial developer interest, nor see investment in services expected of a tier one device.

    2. QT will not be offered as a development platform for Nokia Win7 phones, that will be in the hands of Microsoft, effectively killing Nokia’s ambition to see QT as the premier mobile development platform. What this means is that as far as Nokia is concerned QT has very little utility as a strategic asset and so investment will plummet.

    3. Microsoft Marketplace will replace Ovi-Store as the store for applications on Nokia Win7 devices, and this is unlikely to be made available to MeeGo devices. This may not matter quite as much as it initially appears however as an entirely separate app-store ecosystem has grown up around Nokia/MeeGo in the form of Project Bretzn.

    This is in no way a desirable outcome as far as this blog is concerned, for there is no dream of a mainstream open platform any longer, but perhaps it will survive as a niche platform?

    Nokia currently spends nearly three times as much on R&D as its peers. So when we see that investment by Nokia will decline by a third, and investment in MeeGo will be squeezed to less than half of what it was, perhaps we need a little perspective.

    MeeGo alone will probably see an annual investment of circa $200 million. If we likewise contrast that to the circa $800 million to be invested in “Windows Phone” then we can guess that “MeeGo” phones will attract as much as one fifth of the investment that Nokia will put into “Mobile Phones – Platforms” as well as “Services” which amounts to circa $350 million per year. That said, $350 million would be the upper ceiling given that MeeGo is now a ‘project’ rather than a platform, so lets halve that figure and call it $175 million a year in platforms and services.

    So, in a like-for-like comparison with competitors, a total investment of around $400 million dollars a year doesn’t appear too desperate, provided one understands that it is being kept as a niche platform and not promoted as a mainstream competitor to Android and Apples IOS.

    It should also be noted that Nokia show Win7 as replacing the Symbian platform which occupies the mid-to-high end of the companies offering, a total that represents less than 60% of Nokia’s projected future sales.

    Nokia were quite happy to show the death of Symbian in graphic format, the same would be true for Meego, but they didn't.

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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    I've been looking at swapping my Samsung Galaxy S for a Windows 7 phone - post Mango.

    I think WP7 looks far slicker and nicer to use.

    This phone, the N9 - looks lush. If they released this with WP7, I'd be there.
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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    Buy a phone which will likely be largely ignored next year in favour of an impotent OS? No thanks. Nokia engineers can still make great hardware when their management just gets out of the way instead of being retarded. Unfortunately on the software side stupid management creates platform dysphoria.
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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    Quote Originally Posted by cameronlite View Post
    I've been looking at swapping my Samsung Galaxy S for a Windows 7 phone - post Mango.

    I think WP7 looks far slicker and nicer to use.

    This phone, the N9 - looks lush. If they released this with WP7, I'd be there.
    Why would you want to swap a decent platform for one that appears still born at best? I'm all for choices but WP7 is far, far behind the others in almost every way.
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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    I'm not sure on one thing - did Elop say that they were not supporting or developing for any other platforms (symbian / meego) and were just moving to exclusively to windows mobile 7?

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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    Quote Originally Posted by HSK View Post
    I'm not sure on one thing - did Elop say that they were not supporting or developing for any other platforms (symbian / meego) and were just moving to exclusively to windows mobile 7?
    They're killing Symbian Series 60, and making Meego a "research project". WP7 will power all their high end devices, Symbian Series 40 on the low-end. S40 runs system-on-a-chip devices, the low-end candybar phones.

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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    Quote Originally Posted by HSK View Post
    I'm not sure on one thing - did Elop say that they were not supporting or developing for any other platforms (symbian / meego) and were just moving to exclusively to windows mobile 7?
    The smartphones were moving exclusively to WP7, but the bread-and-butter dumbphones (the £20-including-£10-credit ones) will remain unchanged (S40?). Last report I read somewhere was saying that Nokia was also looking to get out of the low-margin stuff so they could drop Symbian completely. I'm not so sure this is the case - I'm sure Nokia's quite happy to sell the low-cost gear - because they're popular in developing nations, plus it gets the Nokia brand "out there".

    Wonder if Microsoft are working on a cut-down WP7 that'd be suitable for dumbphones...?

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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    Wonder if Microsoft are working on a cut-down WP7 that'd be suitable for dumbphones...?
    That is probably where they are going to be heading by natural deprecation of the cost of smartphone hardware. At the risk of starting a flame war, because you know i'd never do that.

    How come my £220 WP7 runs better than a £500 andriod phone? How come the menus flip faster, texts and emails have a better Ux, games run flawlessly, and web browsing, whilst unable to flash, in a flashless showdown is soo much smoother?

    I would say its because of the architecture and programming quality, WP7 is simply higher grade than the Andriod versions we see knocking about.

    So given that some hexites picked up a WP7 for £180 already, and the're not makign a loss on that! I'd be surprised if in 18 months at the most we didn't have the <£100 handsets. Then its only a matter of time before the component costs creap down to the £20-40 bracket. In the same way that the real cheapo phones still have as many pixels as I have fingers, I doubt it will get to those (and there is little profit) the bracket they should really be able to get hold of is the $100.
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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    That is probably where they are going to be heading by natural deprecation of the cost of smartphone hardware. ... I'd be surprised if in 18 months at the most we didn't have the <£100 handsets.
    Good point I was focused on a WP7Lite, but as you point out, if the unit cost is low enough then there's no need for it. My question was because MS seem to be targetting at business folks and gamers. The first group is easy handled, but I'd suggest that the (teenage?) Xbox fanatic would be unwilling to fork out £200+ for a phone, so a cheaper unit (<£100) would be of great benefit to getting the OS "out there". And I'm hoping that Nokia don't fluff their one (and only?) chance to get their next phone "right".
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    How come my £220 WP7 runs better than a £500 andriod phone? ... I would say its because of the architecture and programming quality, WP7 is simply higher grade than the Andriod versions we see knocking about.
    I would politely suggest that this is an unfair assessment. First of, Android is developing at such a rate that there's wild differences between versions. E.g. my X10i was "tolerable" at 1.6, "good" at 2.1 and "excellent" with Cyanogen6 (2.2) on it - same hardware and OS, just a different OS revision.
    Secondly there's wild differences between the performance of different manfacturers phones (due to the UI differences which, remember, aren't part of "Android"), and even between phones in the same range (e.g. my X10i is quick, my daughters X10 mini pro less so).
    The very range of folks doing Android isn't necessarily an advantage. Neither is Google's downright confusing way of handling them - it's long overdue for the Goog to step up and exercise a bit more control (as seems to be happening with tablets) as far as this consumer is concerned!
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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    Good point I was focused on a WP7Lite, but as you point out, if the unit cost is low enough then there's no need for it. My question was because MS seem to be targetting at business folks and gamers. The first group is easy handled, but I'd suggest that the (teenage?) Xbox fanatic would be unwilling to fork out £200+ for a phone, so a cheaper unit (<£100) would be of great benefit to getting the OS "out there". And I'm hoping that Nokia don't fluff their one (and only?) chance to get their next phone "right".
    Indeed, the other thing I hate is that phones are developing at such a fast pace, they are also seen as throw away items, no upgrade paths, some don't even allow you to easily swap the battery (COMPLETELY RETARDED!).
    Having a £200 phone replaced every 18 months is a little bit more affordable.
    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    I would politely suggest that this is an unfair assessment. First of, Android is developing at such a rate that there's wild differences between versions. E.g. my X10i was "tolerable" at 1.6, "good" at 2.1 and "excellent" with Cyanogen6 (2.2) on it - same hardware and OS, just a different OS revision.
    The downside is that can tarnish your brand. I've played with android 1.6 and as someone who grew out of programming in java, found it to be a collection of flaws, didn't really appeal. Same with 2.1, now some of the 2.2 bits are good, but I don't know if its how they are doing the garbage collection, but you put a desire HD which is a fairly top of the line andriod device, next to a £200 WP7 and the difference is in performance is apparent, the lesser powered hardware just runs better, thanks to better programming.

    This must be hurting the android brand.

    Much the same way that a lot of laptop builders and sellers bundle stupid software on them like the google desktop search thing they suck battery life and aren't used by most users. This bad pre-loaded software really frustrates many novice users, and they simply blame Windows. This I think is happening to quite android a bit.

    I've been playing with some of the dev stuff for WP7 and reading up on some of the tweaks they are doing, I would say that the performance difference between mango and the current WP7 are better than the 2.1 to 2.2 of Android, I've not had the oppertunity to play with 3, which I'd really like if anyone wants to lend me a fondleslab .

    What I'm trying to say is that WP7 currently gives better performance than 2.2, and they also have good velocity so I doubt android are going to be able to compete with that on anything but the very highest end hardware, which is probably going to continue costing double, whilst delivering less and less battery life.

    The other thing is Google need to push some categories or minimum standards.
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    Re: News - Nokia shows commitment to WP7 with Symbian and MeeGo launches

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    (Regretful snippage) The other thing is Google need to push some categories or minimum standards.
    Agree with what you're said in the rest of the post 100% - so much good sense in so few words, and the WP7 opinions were interesting. On the other hand, that bit above gets 110% - especially for tablets. I think the no-name Chinese tablets without MarketPlace etc should really be forced to call themselves "Android-based" rather than "Android", because - at least all the ones I've tried - they deliver a poor experience. If you've got any ideas for catagorisation etc then I'd love to hear them.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
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    Quick question - I note that although it's off the list for phones, Nokia's still apparently keeping MeeGo for "research" and other non-phone products. Does this mean that we might see a Nokia N770/N800/etc replacement with that OS? I run MeeGo on my netbook and it's a very fine OS in that case, so I'd obviously be keen to see a MeeGo tablet.

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