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Thread: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    We have 2 cars one with a removable head unit and one integrated, I much prefer not having to remove the head unit. May be I am lazy, I just don't care about the radio, so long as it gets radio 4, and plays music when the radio 4 content sucks it perfect for me. While radio station may be different I expect its a common opion of many car drivers. Many drivers kept the head units in the glove box so thieves would break in anyway.
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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Actually yes and no, the rear pinouts are normally available in some strange standard, the problem is that standard is shared across maybe 10 cars! What do you do about different cars offering different stick functionality? Some cars like a DS3 have a shedload of stalk functionality, would be quite hard to make a standard that encompassed all of these whislt keeping the costs down.
    Not really. Add a control protocol to the standard. It's hardly rocket science to consider factors even a ricer shop does daily, and they're hardly what one could consider actual engineers.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    And then we get on to the face plate, again lots of manufactures want to sell cars, rather than keep a hobbiest happy. As such they want to be distinct, to have it seemlessly merged in.
    In order for them to rip off the customer should they wish to bump their in-car entertainment, because these are hardly mutually exclusive goals. A well made cubby and an understated stock head unit would easily have a seamless quality to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    Not really. Add a control protocol to the standard. It's hardly rocket science to consider factors even a ricer shop does daily, and they're hardly what one could consider actual engineers.
    Given that the automotive industry showed how quickly they would adopt the CANBUS due to the reduction in costs, and how they share parts to reduce cost, I'm guessing they would if they could. However I reckon its probably cheaper for them not to due to the scale of it it, its hardly worth changing to a bus for such a short hop.

    Then you've got the LCDs and such, which often are better mounted away from the radio, should there be some standard protocol for those?! Given the dramatic cost of having clock speed suitable for colour, I really don't think you've thought this through at all...
    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    In order for them to rip off the customer should they wish to bump their in-car entertainment, because these are hardly mutually exclusive goals. A well made cubby and an understated stock head unit would easily have a seamless quality to it.
    Erm, a lot already do that, the problem is they also want to use the stereo interface for other things too, for instance my complex trip counters are accessed via the stero. They also use the same head unit accross the range, as this is often standard, the only extra upgrade are on the speakers.
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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    There's no reason why the car's entertainment system would need to open a listening port. And what would a cracker do anyway? Copy or delete your music collection?
    No need for sarcasm - there's been a couple of studies on the potential havoc that could be wrought - see http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/26045/?a=f for a discussion of the UW and UCSD studies (which seem to have got the most coverage).

    Note that the article says:
    showed that by taking over a car's computers, they could disable the brakes, stop the engine, and control the door locks. For now, most of the attacks require access to a port inside the car. But wreaking havoc could get easier as carmakers add more wireless connectivity
    And I'm willing to put some of me pension money on that some "suit" in marketing will come up with a plausible reason to allow incoming traffic. Heck, there's also been some talk of the potential of allowing a manufacturer "dialing in" to a car's ECU to get telemetry - so, for example, they can warn a customer that a service will be due soon.

    Again, maybe I'm being old-fashioned (and I'm not targeting this statement at you) but surely the purpose of a car is to move driver and (optionally) passengers and chattels from point A to point B. It is NOT a bl**dy office, mobile internet cafe, or bl**dy mobile home theatre "experience". There's enough brain-donor driving on the go at the moment, without adding the potential distractions of Facebook, Twitter, or checking emails.

    If folks need mobile hotspots then why the **ck not just get one of those MiFi devices!?

    Sorry, rant over, I'm now going to stomp around the garden for a bit whilst being nostalgic for those days when you could fix a car with a screwdriver, hammer and adjustable spanner.

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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    I'm glad, when I go away I can stand carrying a load of CD's & having to hide them or store them with in my bag !...I't was great back in the day to have a CD player just for the sound quality over tape alone but with mass storage within our Phone's & personal media players this is the way to go for car Music !

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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    I want a mobile internet headunit with VPN, let me access my NAS!
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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    No need for sarcasm - there's been a couple of studies on the potential havoc that could be wrought - see http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/26045/?a=f for a discussion of the UW and UCSD studies (which seem to have got the most coverage).

    Note that the article says:
    [...]
    I'm not being sarcastic, I'm quite serious. Why would a car entertainment system listen on a port? And why would it be connected to the car's primary electronics? New features needn't create security vulnerabilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    And I'm willing to put some of me pension money on that some "suit" in marketing will come up with a plausible reason to allow incoming traffic. Heck, there's also been some talk of the potential of allowing a manufacturer "dialing in" to a car's ECU to get telemetry - so, for example, they can warn a customer that a service will be due soon.
    I wouldn't underestimate suits ability to come up with some really stupid idea, but even dialing home wouldn't require a listening port. They can just send simple HTTPS requests to their web server.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    Again, maybe I'm being old-fashioned (and I'm not targeting this statement at you) but surely the purpose of a car is to move driver and (optionally) passengers and chattels from point A to point B. It is NOT a bl**dy office, mobile internet cafe, or bl**dy mobile home theatre "experience". There's enough brain-donor driving on the go at the moment, without adding the potential distractions of Facebook, Twitter, or checking emails.

    If folks need mobile hotspots then why the **ck not just get one of those MiFi devices!?

    Sorry, rant over, I'm now going to stomp around the garden for a bit whilst being nostalgic for those days when you could fix a car with a screwdriver, hammer and adjustable spanner.
    I can't argue with you there. Car manufacturers really need to give serious consideration about the computer systems they use in cars and the interconnectivity between them. But car entertainment doesn't have to interfere with the driving itself. Besides, with modern traffic flow (or lack thereof), in-car entertainment is all the more necessary if road rage is to be tempered.
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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Given that the automotive industry showed how quickly they would adopt the CANBUS due to the reduction in costs, and how they share parts to reduce cost, I'm guessing they would if they could. However I reckon its probably cheaper for them not to due to the scale of it it, its hardly worth changing to a bus for such a short hop.

    Then you've got the LCDs and such, which often are better mounted away from the radio, should there be some standard protocol for those?! Given the dramatic cost of having clock speed suitable for colour, I really don't think you've thought this through at all...
    LCDs already have suitable standards. They're even integrated into smartphones with fully featured GPUs packed into a <1W SoC for christs sake. Doing some coloured sprites is hardly expensive, any graphics engineer could do it in his sleep with a breadboard and a bunch of transistors, much less in an IC.

    It's not a matter of development cost, if anything standard components would reduce costs since they can just reuse cheap standard modular components during design integration and they don't have to reinvent the wheel for every car. They just don't want to standardise components, because if they did, competition would drive a race to the bottom in pricing both on purchase, and after-sales. Can't have that now, can we?
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

  9. #25
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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    I agree with ford in general - the in car CD player is on the way out - I have used mine only once in the past 6 months on my A1.

    I have a 32GB SDCard plugged in (it has 2 built in SD card slots), which has more than enough music on it, and also supports full track information and Album art. If I want podcasts or more then my iPhone connects over bluetooth and also provides full track information/skip controls from the steering wheel, and coming later this year is an MMI update which enables personal hotspot creation/music over Wifi and internet access over 3G (although not 100% certain my car will be compatible with the 3G part )

    So, if you car supports it then there is really very little need for a CD player..1 tiny SD card is so much easier than a stack of huge CDs!

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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    (And I'm willing to put some of me pension money on that some "suit" in marketing will come up with a plausible reason to allow incoming traffic. Heck, there's also been some talk of the potential of allowing a manufacturer "dialing in" to a car's ECU to get telemetry - so, for example, they can warn a customer that a service will be due soon.) I wouldn't underestimate suits ability to come up with some really stupid idea, but even dialing home wouldn't require a listening port. They can just send simple HTTPS requests to their web server.
    You've unfortunately misunderstood - it's not the car "calling home", it's the manufacturer's systems that instigate the "call". I believe it's only a proposal, so hopefully it'll get dropped as too complex/costly to do. However I certainly agree that, in theory, if it's just diagnostic information then there's no real problem because there's no ability to change anything.
    Could be interesting if the in-car GPS is included in that data dump though - I'm sure there's some organisations who'd like that - and not just law enforcement (yes, I do mean you NI!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    I agree with ford in general - the in car CD player is on the way out - I have used mine only once in the past 6 months on my A1. So, if you car supports it then there is really very little need for a CD player..1 tiny SD card is so much easier than a stack of huge CDs!
    If you're talking about audio CD's then I'd tend to agree - my old B'punkt Woodstock has seen less than half a dozen audio CD's in the last year. On the other hand, I make good use of the ability to play MP3 CD's - it's dead easy to fit 4, 5, 6 or more albums on a single CD - which saves changing the damn things, and gives me back a bit of valuable glovebox space. So my ideal system would have:
    • a large colour touch screen (supplemented by on-wheel controls, although voice control would be nice too);
    • an SDHC or preferably SDXC slot;
    • a usb port - ideally with the ability to plug in an iOS device via it's cable (dedicated cables from the car manufacturer are a "fail" in my book). If this was in the glovebox or armrest/central-spine then I'd be okay with that. If it was able to support bus-powered external laptop-type drives (e.g. WD Passport Essential, Seagate GoFlex) then that'd be worthwhile (see also the last bullet point);
    • 3.5mm line in socket - again, doesn't have to be near the unit - remember that not everyone has an iPod;
    • single optical slot - note I didn't say CD, DVD is fine with me (and allows the ability to use the screen for the passenger to watch films - especially if the unit supports MP4/xvid/divx/etc).Must support digital audio formats - MP3 at a bare minimum, AAC and/or OGG in addition ideally;
    • Bluetooth connectivity - where the entertainment system could interface to play music being streamed from a phone - would be a nice-to-have, but not essential;
    • The option to add a laptop sized drive (old fashioned rotating disk or SSD doesn't matter to me) somehere in the car (under the dash?) to replace the CD multichanger. Content to be loaded by copying from the SD or USB ports. The easiest way to allow this would be to put a USB port and a suitable securing arrangement somewhere in the car, and then allow the user to provide their own drive from a list of "supported" ones.

    As they say - it's just my two cents worth... And I'm pretty sure that there's at least one unit out there already that probably meets most of the wish list.

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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    If you're talking about audio CD's then I'd tend to agree - my old B'punkt Woodstock has seen less than half a dozen audio CD's in the last year. On the other hand, I make good use of the ability to play MP3 CD's - it's dead easy to fit 4, 5, 6 or more albums on a single CD - which saves changing the damn things, and gives me back a bit of valuable glovebox space. So my ideal system would have:
    • a large colour touch screen (supplemented by on-wheel controls, although voice control would be nice too);
    • an SDHC or preferably SDXC slot;
    • a usb port - ideally with the ability to plug in an iOS device via it's cable (dedicated cables from the car manufacturer are a "fail" in my book). If this was in the glovebox or armrest/central-spine then I'd be okay with that. If it was able to support bus-powered external laptop-type drives (e.g. WD Passport Essential, Seagate GoFlex) then that'd be worthwhile (see also the last bullet point);
    • 3.5mm line in socket - again, doesn't have to be near the unit - remember that not everyone has an iPod;
    • single optical slot - note I didn't say CD, DVD is fine with me (and allows the ability to use the screen for the passenger to watch films - especially if the unit supports MP4/xvid/divx/etc).Must support digital audio formats - MP3 at a bare minimum, AAC and/or OGG in addition ideally;
    • Bluetooth connectivity - where the entertainment system could interface to play music being streamed from a phone - would be a nice-to-have, but not essential;
    • The option to add a laptop sized drive (old fashioned rotating disk or SSD doesn't matter to me) somehere in the car (under the dash?) to replace the CD multichanger. Content to be loaded by copying from the SD or USB ports. The easiest way to allow this would be to put a USB port and a suitable securing arrangement somewhere in the car, and then allow the user to provide their own drive from a list of "supported" ones.

    As they say - it's just my two cents worth... And I'm pretty sure that there's at least one unit out there already that probably meets most of the wish list.
    Then you want an A1 - it does 80% of that as standard, and if you pay an extra £700 you get 99% of that in the car.

    Large colour screen? Check (which also supports videos), standard. Screen is far and away from the rest of the "head unit" also.
    Voice Control + Steering Wheel controls? Check, standard
    SDHC Slot (2 of them)? Check, standard
    USB Port in glovebox? Check - but optional extra
    3.5mm aux in - Check, Standard
    Single Optical Slot - Check, standard (MP3 et al), Extra if you want DVD support.
    Bluetooth support? Standard feature, plays music with track info
    Built in hard drive? Extra but yup you can have it, loaded via SD/USB

    OK so you have to buy a whole new car to get this, but it does exist already, and hopefully will become standard in more and more cars over the next few years

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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    I just bought one of these for £16, to extend the life of the old cassette player in the TT.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-FM-Tr...1843943&sr=8-1
    Now I just plug in the ipod and away I go. Also provides a spare usb charging port for the phone and any other doodads.
    Society's to blame,
    Or possibly Atari.

  13. #29
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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    Then you want an A1 - it does 80% of that as standard, and if you pay an extra £700 you get 99% of that in the car.

    Large colour screen? Check (which also supports videos), standard. Screen is far and away from the rest of the "head unit" also.
    Voice Control + Steering Wheel controls? Check, standard
    SDHC Slot (2 of them)? Check, standard
    USB Port in glovebox? Check - but optional extra
    3.5mm aux in - Check, Standard
    Single Optical Slot - Check, standard (MP3 et al), Extra if you want DVD support.
    Bluetooth support? Standard feature, plays music with track info
    Built in hard drive? Extra but yup you can have it, loaded via SD/USB

    OK so you have to buy a whole new car to get this, but it does exist already, and hopefully will become standard in more and more cars over the next few years
    Had it in my fiesta
    and the JVC Double Din Unit in the stagea does most of that too
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  14. #30
    Senior Member Smudger's Avatar
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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    Removable interfaces that people left in the glovebox? Or that were kept in a big plastic case that was too big for a pocket?
    I prefer the built in route to theft prevention, although it doesn't stop someone with the same car nicking yours if it's better than their one...

    Oops, a bit late with this one...

  15. #31
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    LCDs already have suitable standards. They're even integrated into smartphones with fully featured GPUs packed into a <1W SoC for christs sake. Doing some coloured sprites is hardly expensive, any graphics engineer could do it in his sleep with a breadboard and a bunch of transistors, much less in an IC.
    There are embarrsing posts on the internet by me in 1998 asking questions about the way to interface LCDs. Its not as simple as you think. Its not as cheap as you think.

    You leave an iPhone out in the sun and it dies, people know this, they except this. Automotive parts have to have a much higher tolerance, and as such cost more.

    The price difference between a transflective matrix, and a modern TN panel is very large.

    This is why most cars, even some of the luxury ones still use older style LCDs. And they will continue too for the next couple of years too.
    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    It's not a matter of development cost, if anything standard components would reduce costs since they can just reuse cheap standard modular components during design integration and they don't have to reinvent the wheel for every car. They just don't want to standardise components, because if they did, competition would drive a race to the bottom in pricing both on purchase, and after-sales. Can't have that now, can we?
    Actually plenty would, you can have a standard bus, like the CANBUS which you use basic cryptography to stop others playing with, you can fight those who try in the courts and even license out the technology to the 3rd parties and generate extra revenue.

    This is strangely reminiscent of the radio in planes thread, yes there are technologies which could be used, but there are very valid real world reasons why they aren't. Funnily enough, not all of them evil short term profiteering.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Nefarious Networker Dareos's Avatar
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    Re: News - Ford predicts the demise of the in-car CD player

    Crossy, pretty sure the pay telephones he is referring to would be phone box types, which there are fewer and fewer of in our streets as folks use mobiles/cells
    We're only here for the Banter - The Luvvies - Chewin' The Fat

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