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Automotive giant takes first big step toward in-car digital downloads.
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Automotive giant takes first big step toward in-car digital downloads.
I think the head unit should still have an optical reader, in fact, they should bump it up to DVD optics so people can burn more media files to a disc, support FLAC/Wav as well so you can have CD equal music and have CD backwards compat at the same time. You can really do this, and add bluetooth, SD, USB, flash memory, etc to it in a standard head unit sized device. 'Cloud' I really really don't care less about, but it wouldn't hurt to add a wlan unit so the car can go grab music from your home computer or whatever when you're parked up home.
And that's already way more music input options than people will ever need.
But bravo to Ford a step forward.
I need my current CD player because my car doesnt have DAB or MP3 device connectivity. I could of course upgrade my CD player with all the mod cons but its expensive as mine is an all in one dash with the heating controls embedded on there as well, I just cant be bothered with a complicated or poor install job.
If I ever have the money to buy a modern car then I'd make sure it has MP3/Ipod connectivity as im bored of making mix cd's with all of 15 songs on there. I'd much rather have lots of music and be able to choose from playlists and albums etc...
While I still prefer to buy CDs, I convert them to lossless to keep the discs in mint condition.
I'm not a massive fan of Downloads because MP3's are pretty poor quality, 320kbps sadly doesnt mean good quality. (I know some CD's are also downgraded, metallica anyone).
Cassetts seem to be making a come back recently. Just because dixons doesnt stock them hasnt stopped supermarkets. All the ones round here stock a range of them.
As its illegal to rip my CDs to MP3 etc how will I listen to them without buying them all again?
It's no longer illegal :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
I don't use my CD player. Fortunately it's also got a cassette player though so I routinely plug my iPod in through a cassette adapter. I wouldn't miss CD (or tape) if it went; don't give two hoots about cloud connectivity but do want at least an Aux input.
Yeah car manufacturers need a smack in the head for that, there's no valid reason on the wide earthly world why the head unit should have proprietary front panelling. Even when they have a standard sized cubby the railing always seems off, or the pinouts are inconsistent. This should have been standardised decades ago and they should have been compelled to use the standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by AGTDenton
Does state that they will keep single slot CD players for the time being - while there is a demand.Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
Personally I am happy to plug a usb stick in or my phone or MP3 player - but I think my parents will use CD's until they stop driving and I think CD player in cars will stick around for 10 - 20 years time.
I read that, but that implies that the CD player will be limited to audio CD playback.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewster0101
I'm 100% sure that various members of the British Phonographic Institute have been quoted as saying that they're perfectly content for you to rip CD's you've bought, just as long as those rips don't end up on a Torrent site somewhere. Likewise, if you've got tapes (yes, I do) then they're also content for you to convert those to MP3 if you want to listen to them on your iPod/Walkman. Which seemed like a pretty sensible approach - after all they're not losing a sale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
Presumably this is a US-based person saying this. If not, anyone know where you can get these free-to-run phone? I have to pay for my contract, and I'm sure PAYG isn't free either. ;)Quote:
The in-car CD player – much like pay telephones – is destined to fade away in the face of exciting new technology
My old Blaupunkt DAB (also in a Ford Focus) also took SD cards, but it was very restrictive on what sizes and brands were compatible - hopefully the Ford replacement will take SDHC (even SDXC?). Think I'd also be more than happy to swap a USB for a conventional line-in. While I agree that a multidisk CD changer can easily be replaced with an SD slot, or even big USB key, I'd be very unhappy if the "audio centre" lost the capability to play disks entirely - you'd be surprised how much can be fitted on a normal CD in reasonable MP3 format. What about proposing to replace the (mechanical) multi-CD changer with a simple harddrive located somewhere in the car? Even laptop drives go to 1TB, and surely that's more music than anyone legally has?Quote:
The new system, designed to cater to "tech-savvy customers" will offer multiple USB ports, an SD card slot, RCA inputs and Bluetooth connectivity. The company suggests that its SYNC system will enable users to connect mobile broadband dongles, allowing for the creation of a Wi-Fi hotspot that will in turn provide on-the-go access to cloud services such as Apple iCloud, Amazon Cloud Drive and Google Music.
As to this stuff about WiFi enabling the car, I'm very uneasy. Maybe I'm just being an old fogey, (or are giving that episode of NCIS too much credence), but I can't help thinking that doing this just gives another way for the system to get hacked. Brings a whole new, totally unwelcome, spin to the term "system crash". :eek:
Oh I see. My Ford Focus, (which is not a new model) plays MP3's and WMA's from CD already.Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
There's no reason why the car's entertainment system would need to open a listening port. And what would a cracker do anyway? Copy or delete your music collection?Quote:
Originally Posted by crossy
Actually there is a very good reason for this, since most radios are integrated thief of radios have reduced dramatically. No point in stealing a radio from a Corsa if it will only fit another one and most probably already have that radio. The radio was a very small part of the price compared to the damage caused in getting to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
Actually yes and no, the rear pinouts are normally available in some strange standard, the problem is that standard is shared across maybe 10 cars! What do you do about different cars offering different stick functionality? Some cars like a DS3 have a shedload of stalk functionality, would be quite hard to make a standard that encompassed all of these whislt keeping the costs down.Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
And then we get on to the face plate, again lots of manufactures want to sell cars, rather than keep a hobbiest happy. As such they want to be distinct, to have it seemlessly merged in.
I think the non-standard head units came about as a way to try and combat car stereo theft. It seemed to be Ford, Peugeot and Vauxhall who led the way with that - probably the most stolen/broken into cars at that time...Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
Or what Oolon said...
And TheAnimus...
Head units with removable interfaces also showed up around the same time. So be careful with dodgy stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by oolon
We have 2 cars one with a removable head unit and one integrated, I much prefer not having to remove the head unit. May be I am lazy, I just don't care about the radio, so long as it gets radio 4, and plays music when the radio 4 content sucks it perfect for me. While radio station may be different I expect its a common opion of many car drivers. Many drivers kept the head units in the glove box so thieves would break in anyway.
Not really. Add a control protocol to the standard. It's hardly rocket science to consider factors even a ricer shop does daily, and they're hardly what one could consider actual engineers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnimus
In order for them to rip off the customer should they wish to bump their in-car entertainment, because these are hardly mutually exclusive goals. A well made cubby and an understated stock head unit would easily have a seamless quality to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnimus
Given that the automotive industry showed how quickly they would adopt the CANBUS due to the reduction in costs, and how they share parts to reduce cost, I'm guessing they would if they could. However I reckon its probably cheaper for them not to due to the scale of it it, its hardly worth changing to a bus for such a short hop.Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
Then you've got the LCDs and such, which often are better mounted away from the radio, should there be some standard protocol for those?! Given the dramatic cost of having clock speed suitable for colour, I really don't think you've thought this through at all...
Erm, a lot already do that, the problem is they also want to use the stereo interface for other things too, for instance my complex trip counters are accessed via the stero. They also use the same head unit accross the range, as this is often standard, the only extra upgrade are on the speakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
No need for sarcasm - there's been a couple of studies on the potential havoc that could be wrought - see http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/26045/?a=f for a discussion of the UW and UCSD studies (which seem to have got the most coverage).Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
Note that the article says:
And I'm willing to put some of me pension money on that some "suit" in marketing will come up with a plausible reason to allow incoming traffic. Heck, there's also been some talk of the potential of allowing a manufacturer "dialing in" to a car's ECU to get telemetry - so, for example, they can warn a customer that a service will be due soon.Quote:
showed that by taking over a car's computers, they could disable the brakes, stop the engine, and control the door locks. For now, most of the attacks require access to a port inside the car. But wreaking havoc could get easier as carmakers add more wireless connectivity
Again, maybe I'm being old-fashioned (and I'm not targeting this statement at you) but surely the purpose of a car is to move driver and (optionally) passengers and chattels from point A to point B. It is NOT a bl**dy office, mobile internet cafe, or bl**dy mobile home theatre "experience". There's enough brain-donor driving on the go at the moment, without adding the potential distractions of Facebook, Twitter, or checking emails.
If folks need mobile hotspots then why the **ck not just get one of those MiFi devices!? :censored:
Sorry, rant over, I'm now going to stomp around the garden for a bit whilst being nostalgic for those days when you could fix a car with a screwdriver, hammer and adjustable spanner.
I'm glad, when I go away I can stand carrying a load of CD's & having to hide them or store them with in my bag !...I't was great back in the day to have a CD player just for the sound quality over tape alone but with mass storage within our Phone's & personal media players this is the way to go for car Music !
I want a mobile internet headunit with VPN, let me access my NAS!
I'm not being sarcastic, I'm quite serious. Why would a car entertainment system listen on a port? And why would it be connected to the car's primary electronics? New features needn't create security vulnerabilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by crossy
I wouldn't underestimate suits ability to come up with some really stupid idea, but even dialing home wouldn't require a listening port. They can just send simple HTTPS requests to their web server.Quote:
Originally Posted by crossy
I can't argue with you there. Car manufacturers really need to give serious consideration about the computer systems they use in cars and the interconnectivity between them. But car entertainment doesn't have to interfere with the driving itself. Besides, with modern traffic flow (or lack thereof), in-car entertainment is all the more necessary if road rage is to be tempered.Quote:
Originally Posted by crossy
LCDs already have suitable standards. They're even integrated into smartphones with fully featured GPUs packed into a <1W SoC for christs sake. Doing some coloured sprites is hardly expensive, any graphics engineer could do it in his sleep with a breadboard and a bunch of transistors, much less in an IC.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnimus
It's not a matter of development cost, if anything standard components would reduce costs since they can just reuse cheap standard modular components during design integration and they don't have to reinvent the wheel for every car. They just don't want to standardise components, because if they did, competition would drive a race to the bottom in pricing both on purchase, and after-sales. Can't have that now, can we?
I agree with ford in general - the in car CD player is on the way out - I have used mine only once in the past 6 months on my A1.
I have a 32GB SDCard plugged in (it has 2 built in SD card slots), which has more than enough music on it, and also supports full track information and Album art. If I want podcasts or more then my iPhone connects over bluetooth and also provides full track information/skip controls from the steering wheel, and coming later this year is an MMI update which enables personal hotspot creation/music over Wifi and internet access over 3G (although not 100% certain my car will be compatible with the 3G part :( )
So, if you car supports it then there is really very little need for a CD player..1 tiny SD card is so much easier than a stack of huge CDs!
You've unfortunately misunderstood - it's not the car "calling home", it's the manufacturer's systems that instigate the "call". I believe it's only a proposal, so hopefully it'll get dropped as too complex/costly to do. However I certainly agree that, in theory, if it's just diagnostic information then there's no real problem because there's no ability to change anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
Could be interesting if the in-car GPS is included in that data dump though - I'm sure there's some organisations who'd like that - and not just law enforcement (yes, I do mean you NI!)
If you're talking about audio CD's then I'd tend to agree - my old B'punkt Woodstock has seen less than half a dozen audio CD's in the last year. On the other hand, I make good use of the ability to play MP3 CD's - it's dead easy to fit 4, 5, 6 or more albums on a single CD - which saves changing the damn things, and gives me back a bit of valuable glovebox space. ;) So my ideal system would have:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud1
- a large colour touch screen (supplemented by on-wheel controls, although voice control would be nice too);
- an SDHC or preferably SDXC slot;
- a usb port - ideally with the ability to plug in an iOS device via it's cable (dedicated cables from the car manufacturer are a "fail" in my book). If this was in the glovebox or armrest/central-spine then I'd be okay with that. If it was able to support bus-powered external laptop-type drives (e.g. WD Passport Essential, Seagate GoFlex) then that'd be worthwhile (see also the last bullet point);
- 3.5mm line in socket - again, doesn't have to be near the unit - remember that not everyone has an iPod;
- single optical slot - note I didn't say CD, DVD is fine with me (and allows the ability to use the screen for the passenger to watch films - especially if the unit supports MP4/xvid/divx/etc).Must support digital audio formats - MP3 at a bare minimum, AAC and/or OGG in addition ideally;
- Bluetooth connectivity - where the entertainment system could interface to play music being streamed from a phone - would be a nice-to-have, but not essential;
- The option to add a laptop sized drive (old fashioned rotating disk or SSD doesn't matter to me) somehere in the car (under the dash?) to replace the CD multichanger. Content to be loaded by copying from the SD or USB ports. The easiest way to allow this would be to put a USB port and a suitable securing arrangement somewhere in the car, and then allow the user to provide their own drive from a list of "supported" ones.
As they say - it's just my two cents worth... And I'm pretty sure that there's at least one unit out there already that probably meets most of the wish list.
Then you want an A1 - it does 80% of that as standard, and if you pay an extra £700 you get 99% of that in the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by crossy
Large colour screen? Check (which also supports videos), standard. Screen is far and away from the rest of the "head unit" also.
Voice Control + Steering Wheel controls? Check, standard
SDHC Slot (2 of them)? Check, standard
USB Port in glovebox? Check - but optional extra
3.5mm aux in - Check, Standard
Single Optical Slot - Check, standard (MP3 et al), Extra if you want DVD support.
Bluetooth support? Standard feature, plays music with track info
Built in hard drive? Extra but yup you can have it, loaded via SD/USB
OK so you have to buy a whole new car to get this, but it does exist already, and hopefully will become standard in more and more cars over the next few years :)
I just bought one of these for £16, to extend the life of the old cassette player in the TT.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-FM-Tr...1843943&sr=8-1
Now I just plug in the ipod and away I go. Also provides a spare usb charging port for the phone and any other doodads.
Had it in my fiesta :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud1
and the JVC Double Din Unit in the stagea does most of that too :)
Removable interfaces that people left in the glovebox? Or that were kept in a big plastic case that was too big for a pocket?
I prefer the built in route to theft prevention, although it doesn't stop someone with the same car nicking yours if it's better than their one...
Oops, a bit late with this one...
There are embarrsing posts on the internet by me in 1998 asking questions about the way to interface LCDs. Its not as simple as you think. Its not as cheap as you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
You leave an iPhone out in the sun and it dies, people know this, they except this. Automotive parts have to have a much higher tolerance, and as such cost more.
The price difference between a transflective matrix, and a modern TN panel is very large.
This is why most cars, even some of the luxury ones still use older style LCDs. And they will continue too for the next couple of years too.
Actually plenty would, you can have a standard bus, like the CANBUS which you use basic cryptography to stop others playing with, you can fight those who try in the courts and even license out the technology to the 3rd parties and generate extra revenue.Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
This is strangely reminiscent of the radio in planes thread, yes there are technologies which could be used, but there are very valid real world reasons why they aren't. Funnily enough, not all of them evil short term profiteering.
Crossy, pretty sure the pay telephones he is referring to would be phone box types, which there are fewer and fewer of in our streets as folks use mobiles/cells
Is that some kind of special option in the Feestie, or was it a manufacturer-supplied?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby-Dick
Reason I ask is that we're hoping to change our 52 plate Feestie for a newer (approved used) model, and if the new ones have this kind of audio tech, then my (teenage) daughter is going to be very impressed.
Spud1: thanks for the tip on the A1, I like Audi's (had an old style Coupe back in the 80/90's and it was a superb bit of kit), but the A1 is a bit out of my/our price range at the moment. :'(
People still use CDs?
Since when? Unless this has changed very recently, it's still illegal. It might have never resulted in legal action, but it's still technically illegal in the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by kasavien
Cloud connectivity? No.Quote:
Would you be willing to trade USB ports or cloud connectivity for your in-car CD player?
USB/audio in from an MP3 player, memory card, etc? Yes, definitely.
Personally, I see no technical problem with that, and car environments are far from ideal for high fidelity audio anyway. I'm quite happy with the sound output from digitised files, be they (years ago) MiniDisc, or more recently, a good MP3 player ..... and that's through a sound system in the car that cost me close to three grand.
But personally, I will not pay for a subscription service for the car, be it 3G or whatever. Not now, not ever.
I was quite disappointed when my new company van came with no socket for my mp3 player, but some kind of slit in the dashboard. Apparently people used to put some kind of circular object in there. Seriously, no 3.5mm socket in 2010? What were they thinking? I had to get one of those fugly FM kludges. I went and looked in a car bits shop and there was a similarly disappointing array of radios with slits but no usb or card sockets and nothing about playing FLAC. I suppose at least they weren't all tape, so we have moved on since cars of the 70s if not into the 21st century.
100% correct - way back in 2006 we had:Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen
(http://www.macworld.co.uk/digitallif...m?newsid=14870)Quote:
BPI chairman Peter Jamieson said: "Traditionally the recording industry has turned a blind eye to private copying and has used the strength of the law to pursue commercial pirates. "We believe that we now need to make a clear and public distinction between copying for your own use and copying for dissemination to third parties and make it unequivocally clear to the consumer that if they copy their CDs for their own private use in order to move the music from format to format we will not pursue them."
But yes, if you do that you are - technically speaking - breaching copyright (I guess - not a lawyer). Although, the Hargreaves report in May of this year did suggest that the UK needs a formal "format shifting" provision granted. Although that's just a report, and apparently we're a good while away from any change in the law.
Personally speaking (and apologies that this is slightly off topic) the sooner that this comes about the better. I've no problem with the BPI coming down hard on big-league filesharers and especially "commercial" piracy, but conversely the legal sanction to move the music I've bought to whatever storage format I want to listen to it would be excellent. Would having this "right" mean the end to those last few DRM-"protected" content providers? I do hope so! :D
Sorry to continue off topic.
All your hopes and dreams may come true, and I hope so because then this argument can be laid to rest.
http://www.betanews.com/article/UK-f...gal/1312394295
Whoops never mind I just found Hexus's post. I'll have a read there
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=31323
And the forum discussion .... here
Indeed. And in addition to that BPI statement, we had very explicit recommendations to make format shifting (with some limitations) legal, in the Gowers review, which was largely the thinking behind the Digital Economy Act .... and the format shifting proposals (like para's 3.29 and 4.73) were left out.Quote:
Originally Posted by crossy
Just because 'Hargreaves' recommends it (again) doesn't necessarily mean it'll see daylight as legislation. I hope it does, but we'll have to wait and see. Meanwhile, people will continue to ignore the current law on this point, as they've been doing in their millions, for decades.
As 'Gowers' pointed out, the mere fact that such personal copyright being illegal is seen as illegitimate and unjustified, and hence ignored, by so many undermines those uses of copyright law that are legitimate and do restrain industry ... such as widespread "free" downloading of illicit content. If most people hold copyright law in contempt and regard parts of it as unjustified and unenforceable, and unenforced, they're likely to extend that to the rest of it too.
Apologies for the late reply - in my 59 plate it was a factory option ( I think it was part of the "tech pack" ) - bluetooth , usb & voice control - the latter of which is never used !Quote:
Originally Posted by crossy
Nowadays everybody is linked to the new perspective of technology.I admit that I'm one of them.And such a deal today in terms of high-tech formulas are the Ford highlights of their SYNC system.And not only that,MyFord Touch, the cutting-edge touchscreen interface in new Ford automobiles, will soon get a facelift, notes the Detroit Free Press. Sources suggest that grievances that the old system was not fast enough and cluttered prompted the update. Current owners of a MyFord Touch-equipped Ford vehicle will be able to update free of charge.
This is the article source guys: MyFord Touch upgrades to appear in 2013 models