Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cptwhite_uk
...meh all of them really. OMG... an open button, who's going to do that instead of double clicking? It's more work...?!
*facepalm*
Tablet users, double clicking in attempt to open a file with a finger on Windows 7 sometimes results in renaming or selecting another file.
Quote:
Copy path - eh? what?
It copies the path of the selected file, e.g. you can do this on Vista and 7 by holding the shift key, right clicking a file and selecting 'Copy as Path'.
Really handy feature when working with files on command lines.
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gordy
Ye gawds!
That is terrible, so cluttered and so much wasted space.
Also why is it operating systems from the big three don't realise that most people now have a widescreen laptop? Using so much space for nothing at the top of the window should be punishable by having their screens cut in half.
http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-net/20...-explorer.html
Been over some of these before, the space is for newbs, basically.
Pro users will simply have it in auto hide mode (double click the tab header).
The reason they don't put it to the left or the right is apparently we prefer to see things horizontally, according to most HCI types.... But I'd agree the option would be very good, espesually on ultra small laptops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cptwhite_uk
Buttons I would never use:
...
Paste shortcut - surely if you've got a shortcut in the clipboard, you'd just Ctrl+V?
...
Delete - FFS, just hit delete key!*facepalm*
Afraid you've miss understood, Paste Shortcut pastes a shortcut to whatever is on the clipboard, it's a quick way of making a shortcut, copy the target, paste shortcut on the destination location.
And delete, well think about if someone is using say some kind of tablet? Or a newb.
A lot of the complaints here are quite frankly stupid, born out of ignorance, this pisses me off because it hides the legitimate ones (ie Mine!) from being heard, they get drowned in the sea of "i'm not even going to read the blog post or watch the video, but I know I the ribbon". The daily mail readers of the geek world.
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
What is wrong with you people?
How freaking hard is it? Every time the ribbon interface pops up it's immediately "oh, that doesn't make any sense" and "how illogical".
The ribbon IS logical, period! There are *a few* things that could fit in a couple of tabs, but apart from that everything is easier to find if people switch on their freaking brains and think "hmmm, I'd like to insert a graph, lets see, *insert, line graph* instead of "where is that numerical plotting feature? Let me check view, how about formulas?". Rinse and repeat!
It took me two weeks to teach my mother to think logically instead of just viewing every tab without actually looking at the options. "There are too many options, which one do I want?"
Step 1: Engage brain
Step 2: Select feature
:whip:
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauldarkside
You must have missed the section on "Designing for a wider screen" :rolleyes:
That explains how it keeps pace with Windows 7, but doesn't explain that the concept was already broken in Windows 7 though ;) Imagine how much more height you'd have if you kept the Win 7 style top and then added the Win 8 style bottom.
True we can get this with the minimised ribbon, and I (like many others) will end up cutomising the ribbon so its minimised and pretty much replicates the traditional explorer shortcut bar..it would be nice if MS would provide this as a layout option rather than making us do the work though.
UI change is great and needed - evolution and in some cases revolution is necessary for good software to get better. My problem is that I don't think the ribbon is the answer, it doesn't work well for "normal" or "power" users, and just simply isn't that intuitive to new or established users. Like I say it's a love/hate thing and we can always get around it..I just don't like it personally.
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
The thing that amuses me about UI change is that when Apple does it everyone is like:
"Wow man, the UI is just soooo much better. I want Steve Jobs's babies."
Whereas when Microsoft does it, it's more like:
"OMG Microsoft are such a bunch of lamers!!!!111!! Ribbon interface WTF lol!"
:rolleyes:
People seem willing to give Apple the benefit of the doubt, and largely accept the new way of working without too much complaint. But for Microsoft it's always much "cooler" to instantly hate everything they do, irrespective of how well-considered the changes might be.
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spud1
That explains how it keeps pace with Windows 7, but doesn't explain that the concept was already broken in Windows 7 though ;) Imagine how much more height you'd have if you kept the Win 7 style top and then added the Win 8 style bottom.
Thank you..
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauldarkside
You must have missed the section on "Designing for a wider screen" :rolleyes:
Nope, they've just made things "better" by removing something that was a big waste of space before now. Then putting something else in that does the same. That isn't an improvement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dangel
Well done. Now look at the two examples they give in the explanation. Both are terrible examples of exactly what I was talking about. Huge horizontal strips of wasted space. The ribbon is granted better than whats in Win 7 as in windows 7 the wasted space contained nothing. It's still a huge chunk of space taken up screen space on a widescreen display whichever way you look at it.
I just did a rough comparison on the image with finder and in the space that Windows 7 and 8 have 22 and 24 files listed finder has 33 and that's with slightly larger text size. That's a big chunk of space. Finder is by no means perfect, but in terms of space wasted it has at least the right idea.
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cameronlite
What is wrong with you people?
How freaking hard is it? Every time the ribbon interface pops up it's immediately "oh, that doesn't make any sense" and "how illogical".
The ribbon IS logical, period! There are *a few* things that could fit in a couple of tabs, but apart from that everything is easier to find if people switch on their freaking brains and think "hmmm, I'd like to insert a graph, lets see, *insert, line graph* instead of "where is that numerical plotting feature? Let me check view, how about formulas?". Rinse and repeat!
It took me two weeks to teach my mother to think logically instead of just viewing every tab without actually looking at the options. "There are too many options, which one do I want?"
Step 1: Engage brain
Step 2: Select feature
:whip:
If the ribbon is so logical, why is it that nearly all browsers are getting rid of the space wasted in the menu bar and button area? For an extreme example look at google chrome. The Most important area of any window is what is being worked on. Everything else is secondary to that. The ribbon pushes the content 1/3 of the way down the screen on some computers.
Edit Sorry for double posting. Power cut between posts.
I know you can minimize the ribbon, but that is not the point. As only power users will ever know it exists or use it. The default settings are key to how a product is used by the masses. I've still yet to find a single client who likes the ribbon in office. Mind who actually enjoys using Word or Excel these days? It's damning indictment of features over useability.
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
*urgh*
I use Office 2010 and it still takes me a long time to find things I've not used before but I never had an issue on old versions just logically guessing the menu and quickly browsing a small area to find the option I wanted.
The ribbon has three problems: It's less efficient for something you've not used before , It's not unified and it's bulky as hell, wasting screen real estate.
I'm worried this is going to make even more entry level users look to Mac.
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
Office 2007 was a monumental improvement, as I expect Windows 8 will be.
I know a self-ascribed "tech expert" who continually disables all the new features in Windows (UAC, taskbar logos, new style control panel etc) and then as soon as they're an integral part of the OS and there are other new features to hate, treats them like a long-lost friend.
People are so obsessed with the idea that Windows is dumbing down and destroying their "power user" experience that they often can't see when it's actually making life easier for everybody.
And besides, it was cool to hate Vista.
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
I can't see the blog (blogs.msdn.com is blocked at work :rolleyes:), but my only wish is that they'd move Explorer towards something like Directory Opus - not as advanced or customisable, and keep it basic by default, but it would be nice to have tabbed folders and even the option of dual-pane windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Roobubba
It's still amusing to plonk down an experienced Office user in front of 2007 for the first time and ask them to open, modify, print, save and close a document. Yes, the shortcuts still work, but no, that's not more intuitive!
Being used to Office 2007, and now 2010, I find going back to 2003 (as I do very infrequently on some of our machines which haven't been updated yet) is horrible. It's completely unfathomable. You think going the other way is harder?
Things improve. I'd rather something is redesigned for the better and if it takes a little while to get used to it, then I'll deal with it, so long as it is an improvement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gordy
Mind who actually enjoys using Word or Excel these days? It's damning indictment of features over useability.
Anyone who wants a decent spreadsheet application, as all the alternatives (free anyway) are rubbish for anyone doing anything remotely advanced. Word is less of an issue, though for things like mail merge it is still leagues ahead... I just wish people would stop using Word as a DTP package.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gordy
I know you can minimize the ribbon, but that is not the point.
That may be a bit of a moot point anyway, as perhaps the majority of users will have touchscreens in the not-too-distant future, be they tablets, laptops or regular monitors.
Anyway, it's not our fault if less experienced users see the button to roll-up the ribbon or not. 1) they're unlikely to care anyway as most of the time they'll be an internet browser or other application and 2) if they do care, they'll "Google it" or go exploring.
Either way, since the dawn of time computers have had little features in them that only power users really used, and regardless of how big and colourful you make that button, they'll still be the only ones who use it.
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gordy
If the ribbon is so logical, why is it that nearly all browsers are getting rid of the space wasted in the menu bar and button area? For an extreme example look at google chrome. The Most important area of any window is what is being worked on. Everything else is secondary to that. The ribbon pushes the content 1/3 of the way down the screen on some computers.
You're comparing apples and SUVs, browsers do not require the user interraction that say, Word does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gordy
I know you can minimize the ribbon, but that is not the point. As only power users will ever know it exists or use it. The default settings are key to how a product is used by the masses. I've still yet to find a single client who likes the ribbon in office. Mind who actually enjoys using Word or Excel these days? It's damning indictment of features over useability.
Those people will fall into the categories already mentioned. People that don't like change. Granted, if they were happy with the original system, then why change it? Well, firstly, new users find it MUCH simpler to use and secondly it allows a global interface for many programs which simplifies programs having different interfaces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
this_is_gav
Being used to Office 2007, and now 2010, I find going back to 2003 (as I do very infrequently on some of our machines which haven't been updated yet) is horrible. It's completely unfathomable.
I can only agree here, it is awful. Even going back to XP from 7 makes you realise how much slower it is to use the old systems. Let alone how ugly they are :p
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gordy
The Most important area of any window is what is being worked on. Everything else is secondary to that.
I think the keywords there are "worked on". A browser is for the consumption of webpages. Very little UI interaction is needed outside the page which you are viewing. There really is no "work" happening for the user. They are just consuming.
I don't think the rules of UI design for a browser apply to office products at all. The UI is used all the time if you are creating a document. Granted, this is a lot less true for a file browser... "browsing" obviously being the main usage. So perhaps Google's design principle does apply better there.
Still, knowing Microsoft, they'll probably ditch the whole thing before it gets released. :)
As to "Finder", I find it one of Apple's weakest offerings. Never really worked out why, but it winds me right up. The bizarre lack of cut and paste is certainly part of it. So, I just use the excellent bash command line instead.
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
To be fair, I hadn't considered the user experience from a touch screen perspective. Obviously that makes a lot more sense when you factor that in, and the paste shortcut feature is probably a useful feature now it's been explained.
Touchscreen is something I generally avoid when it comes to a PC user experience. I've begrudingly accepted it on a phone due to the form factor, but when it comes to larger form factors I don't see the appeal.
Also I wasn't aware of the "blog" - that was posted after my comments?! ;)
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
Quote:
Originally Posted by
this_is_gav
Anyone who wants a decent spreadsheet application, as all the alternatives (free anyway) are rubbish for anyone doing anything remotely advanced. Word is less of an issue, though for things like mail merge it is still leagues ahead... I just wish people would stop using Word as a DTP package.
I wasn't aiming this point at just excel, but most spreadsheet and word type applications. None of them are that enjoyable to use.
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
Oh dear.
As a power user of Word, I am slowly getting used to the ribbon. For me it is a backward step but I suspect that light users of Word it is probably better.
For power users, Word 2010 is in fact a backward step compared to WordPerfect 5.1 which was around 20 years ago. Word 2010 has a mind off its own and frequently reformats paragraphs randomly.
Mind you I barely use windows explorer. Firefox works better (but is getting worse), Chrome is cleaner and faster.
Re: News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cjs150
Mind you I barely use windows explorer. Firefox works better (but is getting worse), Chrome is cleaner and faster.
Erm?