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Thread: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

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    News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    Has the firm stooped to a new low?
    Read more.

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    Now 100% Apple free cheesemp's Avatar
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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    Sad news. How can this be allowed. This doesn't make any sense with regard to what patients exist for. They should ban companies from owning patients they don't use. It would stop all this rubbish.

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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    agreed cheese, this is a stupid organisation and shouldnt be allowed to exist... bloody ruining the technology sector (and probably many more) with this stupid thing :*(.

    I hope all the open handset alliance members decide together to stop producing tech for apple, that way apple would be well and truly screwed and they could then force Apple to leave this pathetic organisation and stop trolling .

    I pray to god Motorola can push their patent to the limits and do some damage, i really didnt think the patent system would get this corrupt/stupid.
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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    Said it before

    Moto, Nokia, Ericsson and all the other pioneers of mobile tech should get together and sort Apple out once and for all. They have been around much longer and the tech has been evolved by them in the first place, Apple have come along and started creating various devices then essentially claiming that they are the origional creators of various tech.

    Esentially, what they are trying to do is reduce choice to the consumer to sell more of their devices. Its no way to conduct business and not good for us the consumer.

    What a lot of companies like Samsung etc should also do is stop supplying ram, screens and everything else. That would make Apples life a bit more difficult in the short term and slow them down.

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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferral View Post
    What a lot of companies like Samsung etc should also do is stop supplying ram, screens and everything else. That would make Apples life a bit more difficult in the short term and slow them down.
    How much money would Samsung lose from doing this though? I can imagine the deals are well into the tens of billions.

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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferral View Post
    What a lot of companies like Samsung etc should also do is stop supplying ram, screens and everything else. That would make Apples life a bit more difficult in the short term and slow them down.
    Wouldn't Apple then be able to argue that it's anticompetitive, and then force (via courts) said companies to sell to them again anyway?

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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonigan View Post
    How much money would Samsung lose from doing this though? I can imagine the deals are well into the tens of billions.
    Think how much they could gain aswell though, if they all agreed (Samsung LG etc) to not sell to Apple then they wouldnt have ANYONE useful to go to (intel still way off with a phone style chip) and so they would be like, sorry we have none youll have to buy something else and everyone will buy either an SGS2 a sensation or a few others .

    Basically Apple would get screwed big time, however i bet the American government will be on them like a sack of bricks saying its anticompetitive when its fine for an american company to patent bogus stuff etc
    Quote Originally Posted by snootyjim View Post
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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattitude View Post
    Wouldn't Apple then be able to argue that it's anticompetitive, and then force (via courts) said companies to sell to them again anyway?
    Only if they refuse to sell to apple but still sell kit to other people.

    Samsung have already started turning the screws on them after making the A4 and A5 chip for apple, the A6 is most likely going to be made by tsmc instead, who are late and not up to making the volume apple require.

    They do all need to stop selling to the devil in order to make ends meet and force them to design and manufacture there own kit.

    Patent laws do need to be changed globally as profiteering by trading them is just wrong.

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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    In the long run Apple will end up losing competitiveness with Samsung because they are fabless. Their products will have to be sold at a mark-up that is even greater than it is now for Apple to continue to make their large profits. The problem is that Apple is a huge company and makes huge decisions which companies cannot always afford to miss.

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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    "The firm has, slowly but surely, been transferring patents over to Patent Troll, Digitude"
    Erm, have there been reports of more patents than the 2 used in Digitude's ITC complaint? That complaint mentioned 4 patents, but 2 were from Adaptec and 2 from Apple (originally by Mitsubishi)

    In a separate lawsuit against Samsung, Digitude is also using a Canon patent: http://news.priorsmart.com/digitude-innovations-v-samsung-electronics-l4MZ/

    So Canon is also involved?

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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gkpm View Post
    "The firm has, slowly but surely, been transferring patents over to Patent Troll, Digitude"
    Erm, have there been reports of more patents than the 2 used in Digitude's ITC complaint? That complaint mentioned 4 patents, but 2 were from Adaptec and 2 from Apple (originally by Mitsubishi)

    In a separate lawsuit against Samsung, Digitude is also using a Canon patent: http://news.priorsmart.com/digitude-...ctronics-l4MZ/

    So Canon is also involved?
    There are indeed other companies involved though Apple appears to be the biggest contributor which is why it formed the focus of the post. I'm not 100% sure if Canon is involved as the recent patent case appears to list the original patent owners, for example Mitsubishi, though these patents were then purchased by and transferred to Apple. Canon could of course be involved but as I'm unable to find the transfer record (there definitely is one as someone would have had to transfer to Digitude) I'm not too confident reporting on the matter just yet, we also wouldn't know for sure if Canon was 'convinced' to buy-in to Digitude's patent portfolio or if such an action was an intentional one as part of Canon business plans.

    Apple has transferred quite a few patents over Digitude (at least 12 that we know of) using a proxy firm, Cliff Island LLC, a firm that, whilst legally registered appears to have no offices or telephone number but is registered in the same building as Altitude Capital, the group that is essentially backing Digitude. Again, it was this questionable approach to transferring patents that had me focus on Apple.
    Last edited by Scribe; 13-12-2011 at 02:56 AM.

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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...s-patent-troll

    Just saw this article over on the inquirer.

    Looks Like apple are even annoying software developors now :@

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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by Scribe View Post
    Apple has transferred quite a few patents over Digitude (at least 12 that we know of) using a proxy firm, Cliff Island LLC, a firm that, whilst legally registered appears to have no offices or telephone number but is registered in the same building as Altitude Capital, the group that is essentially backing Digitude. Again, it was this questionable approach to transferring patents that had me focus on Apple.
    As you rightly say, this seems to be a overly convoluted approach. So much so, in fact that I'd suggest that if they (Apple) did this with their financials then there would be some hard questions asked by the IRS and others.
    Quote Originally Posted by kopite View Post
    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...s-patent-troll Just saw this article over on the inquirer. Looks Like apple are even annoying software developors now :@
    Nah - it's only Opera, they don't really count as a "software developer" do they? (Said in jest because I'm an Opera user - mainly on mobile devices). Interesting comments in that article though (thanks for sharing). What I don't get though, is where the advantage is to Apple in blocking open standards - after all, they were mumbling loud and long about the "closed" nature of Flash and how HTML5 was a superior solution.

    By the way, what's the difference between a "patent troll" and a "malicious patent troll" - do non-malicious patent trolls exist?

    I used to have a lot of respect for Apple, but stories like this - and the continuing persecution of Android - has reduced it to the point where I regard them as not much better than SCO. Shame they couldn't divert (some of) this energy to delivering the quantum-leap innovation that they used to be famed for.

    Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...

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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    Would be good if someone sorted Apple out, but if you think about it Apple does not profit from Android phones as much as Microsoft, Nokia and whoever has the muscle to extort license fees.

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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    Something needs to be done, if I were in charge of Samsung or any other company that supplied Apple with stuff then I'd have it drawn into contracts that say something along the lines of any legal conflicts between company X and Apple will result in hold on all existing a future supply of parts until such court actions have been resolved.

    Its just not the done thing IMHO, its wrong to be using someone as a supplier through one door and then trying to sue them, or in some way stop them from selling their own products through another..

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    Re: News - Apple outsources patent infringement

    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig View Post
    Something needs to be done, if I were in charge of Samsung or any other company that supplied Apple with stuff then I'd have it drawn into contracts that say something along the lines of any legal conflicts between company X and Apple will result in hold on all existing a future supply of parts until such court actions have been resolved. Its just not the done thing IMHO, its wrong to be using someone as a supplier through one door and then trying to sue them, or in some way stop them from selling their own products through another..
    I know what you're getting at, and agree 100%, but you're assuming that companies like Samsung etc are homogeneous entities - they aren't. From what I've seen what you've got is various loosely-aligned "business units" who only care about the bottom line. Especially since, (cynic mode on), the bonuses of the execs running those BU's would be hit badly if they did what you're suggesting.

    What it needs is for the boards concerned to wake up and get some of the common sense that you're espousing. After all, if Apple manages to extract a whopping fine from Samsung's handsets, then that's going to hit Sammy's share price and that'll have a knock on effect on the execs.

    Or are you suggesting something more - effectively an armistice where reaching for the lawyers straight away (as Apple seem wont to do) means nullifying the supply contract with immediate effect? If so, then ... wow - that'd certainly cut down on these kind of "frivalous" legal moves, and maybe result in a better environment. Can't see anyone willingingly signing up for those kind of deals though. More's the pity!

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