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Guide Mode and a 24.2-megapixel CMOS sensor.
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Guide Mode and a 24.2-megapixel CMOS sensor.
Yes! About freeking time! Canon - time to retaliate! Show us your 650D, I need one badly :)
Also:
http://2.s.img-dpreview.com/files/news/5221388820/WU_1a.jpg?v=1468
Seems like Nikon is jumping to reveal bigger sensor, faster HD video recording (at 720p) and WiFi module + autofocus while filming. Hope Canon is not sleeping.
Its the same basic 24MP APS-C sensor found in some some Sony cameras with some Nikon modifications. It probably means it will be worse in low light than the 16MP Sony APS-C sensor found in many cameras such as the D5100,D7000 and Pentax K5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH
Ah the megapixel wars....
Never mind what Nikon did with it's new model. Canon is what interests me. I did notice as per that article though that point and shoots for mere €200 can do as much in video and stills (seen Sony HX9V for €240 in some shops). Kind of expect more from £600+ DSLR, especially in video (1080p@29.9999 FPS? come on.. 60FPS is becoming standard in point and shoots at that resolution).
The vast majority of people use a dSLR for stills though,so TBH if you are that bothered about shooting loads of video a camcorder might still end up being a better choice. The whole point of having an optical viewfinder using a mirror(the whole SLR part) is for still image capture and TBH an optical viewfinder is of little use for video capture. On top of this dedicated filming devices tend to have a proper microphone too as opposed to the piddly little things found on most dSLRs.
A dSLR due to the larger sensor has a much narrower depth of field and on top of this manual zooming while filming is a fail unless you have very steady hands. Power zooms are far better suited for this and very few dSLRs have them. Power zooms are more fiddly than manual zooms for picture taking due to a lower level of fine zoom control and slower focal length change time. However,for video it is ideal as it stops jerking focal length transitions. If anything a mirrorless or electronic viewfinder camera is probably a better choice for a hybrid image/video camera and Panasonic have released some power zoom lenses for this purpose,but they are expensive.
There is a vast community of Canon EOS 500, 600 and 60D owners that shoot pretty amazing videos. Zoom is not my favourite, it just destroys the footage anyway. I have watched probably half of youtube and vimeo videos for DSLR filming and am quite hooked up. Have the cash ready for DSLR, just waiting for Canon EOS 650D reviews to pop up. Had decent point and shoot (HX5V). While video was reasonably smooth and shake free it lacked life (depth of field to be exact).
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. At some point you're basically carrying around a stripped down spy satellite. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnimus
Got a D3100 recently, very happy with it. This launch should see the prices of 'last-gen' Nikons pushed down even further.
There is also a vast community of people who use their dSLRs prmarily for image taking. The whole point of a single lens reflex,ie,having a mirror-prism or mirror-mirror system is for still pictures. An SLR is not an ideal arrangement for taking video,period,so trying to shoe-horn features is just making a bastard device which is a jack of all trades but master of none.
The only reason Canon and Nikon are pushing SLRs with this feature is to save on development costs so it is bastard solution IMHO. They can end up using the same basic bodies.
One of the reasons Sony has moved to fixed pellicle mirrors and electronic viewfinders in their interchangeable lens non-mirrorless cameras(they are not dSLRs BTW) is for this reason.
Mirrorless cameras and those using electronic viewfinders are ideally suited for this work and all those people using dSLRs are not using an optical viewfinder are they?? They are chimping using the rear LCD panel.
Also,zooms are used in everything from documentaries to motion picture video capture and they all use power assisted zooming for a reason.
There are dSLRs sensors which can do 1080P at 60FPS(4K at 24FPS) and one of them is the 18MP 35MM frame sized sensor found in some higher Canon cameras,but guess what? That camera is extremely expensive and so are the dedicated lenses too.
I suspect it has been designed specifically with a view to video capture and hence they probably have made some design considerations to reduce heat build-up. This was one of the reasons live view,let alone video took so long to appear on dSLRs. Heat build up is a major concern if you do high speed imaging(the imaging CCDs I worked with in the past needed to be peltier cooled although this is far more demanding than consumer video).
The 24MP sensor in the D3200 is made by Sony and is a mass market design which I suspect will find its way into many cameras just like the previous 16MP one. It is still designed more with a view to still image quality I suspect than video.
I'm really confused as to what you precisely want a DSLR for video as for? Is it a case you want a bloody good still camera that can also do video? Or are you just after something for video?Quote:
Originally Posted by edvinasm
If it's the latter then what is the point of having such a large, high megapixel sensor, when your not using it?
As CAT has mentioned the whole Single Lens Reflex bit is pointless.
Asside from lens characteristics, I can get better video from my Pentax Q, than you'll manage with a 650d. The main reason for this is the firmware driving it, and the sensor have it firmly in mind.
Well actually I won't get better video because I royally suck at video.
But you get my drift.
I am puzzled. I need stills camera with shallow depth of field for portraits and small objects (narrow lens?). However, I want to be able to grab it for holidays (wide lens?). And I need to capture some full HD @ 60FPS and not to suck in low light + have manual focus if needed (obviously manual controls like shutter speed, white balance etc. too). What the heck fits the bill? Micro 4/3 like Sony Nex or Lumix "System Camera" range?
What do you mean small objects?? Telephoto shots or macro?? For macro a fold out LCD screen is very useful. A decent viewfinder OTH is very important for telephoto shots.
It seems the Sony A65 which has the same 24MP sensor as the D3200 can shoot 60FPS at 1080P:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta65/16
It has an electronic viewfinder.
However,the 16MP sensor it replaces tended to be better in low light. The cheaper A57 has a newer version of the 16MP sensor and can also do 1080P at 60FPS.
There is one caveat though. The data rate for 60FPS shooting using AVCHD is 28MBPS as opposed to 24MBPS at 24FPS meaning lower quality. This is probably something worth checking out for even the 650D and many companies are not forthcoming about this.
In comparison Canon does also do professional video cameras too with large sensors(8.3MP and larger than 35MM frame dSLR sensors) and these do 50MBPS at 1080P if you film at 60FPS. The cheapest one is £9000+ BTW.
Yeah, these Sony Alphas are nice. But heard they heat up a lot during extensive video shooting. How about these micro 4/3 cameras? Any experience with them? Would be ideal in terms of size and specs just haven't actually used one :/
I had a quick scout through a couple of cameras. The Olympus OM-D E-M5 offers 60FPS at 1080i but the Sony uses 1080p. The Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 does the same as the Olympus and both cameras do it at 20MBPS. It does look like the Sony is the best choice for video ATM. They seem to be the only cameras which do 1080p at 60FPS.
It is a shame as the Panasonic and Olympus cameras have a very wide range of lenses including the following power zooms:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/pan..._14-42_3p5-5p6
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/8/...mix_x_45-175mm
These are made for video use too. Even though I use a Sony A200 myself,I consider the Sony lens range to be somewhat more limited although TBH I am using old my old Minolta A-mount lenses on the A200 TBH(same mount).
It does not surprise me the Sony cameras have heat issues although the A57 might be better in this regard(different lower MP sensor).
Edit!!
It seems the NEX5N can also do 1080p at 60FPS:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonynex5n/2
Thanks CAT-THE-FIFTH. Seems like there is no perfect mirrorless atm. I have heard quite few reviews about Panasonic Lumix GH2. Released in 2010 I know.. But seems like people still praise it. Oliviatech dot com has shown some pretty impressive shots. Shoots 720p @ 60fps so reasonable. Sony NEX 7 looks a beast but well overpriced (like discounted Leica..), same goes for 5N. Not sure about Nex 5, what's the difference between this and Nex 5N :/
The NEX5N added the Sony 16MP sensor which replaced the 14MP one in the NEX5. However,it seems the NEX5 can do 1080i at 60FPS:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonynex5n/2
However,it can do it at 17MBPS.
It seems the A580 also does 1080i at 60FPS:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra580/2
I have looked again at hours of videos of Sony, Panasonic and Fuji and Nikon mirrorless cameras. Reviews, previews, sample videos, photos, low light, slow motion, the lot.
Then.. I looked at random Canon 600D video. Everything I looked at before just fades out. The quality, warmth and smoothness of the video nothing to compare to point and shoot, mirrorless or whatever other lower end cameras. I am so going for 600D or 650D in next month or so.
Thanks everyone for info. I have looked back again and.. it wasn't worth it. DSLR is my thing.
Video quality has nothing to do with the camera type though. An SLR is called an SLR due to the reflex mirror needed for live viewing of still images. If you look at the Canon high end video cameras which have large sensors such as the C300 I mentioned before they use an electronic viewfinder and have no reflex mirror.
The mirrorless cameras use large sensors and are NOT point and shoot cameras and are NOT "low end". They are the digital equivalent of the traditional rangefinder form-factor(the shape not the camera type). A Leica M9 can hardly be called low end and neither can cameras like the A77 or X PRO 1. The Sony cameras I mentioned ALL use APS-C sensors just like the Canon and Nikon cameras do and in fact most of the Nikon sensors are made by Sony. The Olympus and Panasonic cameras use a smaller sensor than APS-C size. The Nikon 1 system uses a small 1" sensor which has a higher depth of field than most mirrorless cameras apart from the Pentax Q and it can only shot video at 1080i at 60FPS.
The Fuji X PRO 1 OTH,is designed primarily as a still image camera and is a rangefinder. It can challenge the Leica M9 in still image quality which is amazing and is targeted at a totally different level. It lacks an AA filter which does not make it the greatest choice for video but it can resolve an amazing amount of detail.
The following chart is a comparison of typical consumer camera relative sensor area.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...pdated.svg.png
The Sony HX9V uses a 1/2.3" sensor. The highest end prosumer compacts like my Canon S95 tend to use 1/1.7" and a few might use 2/3" but the latter is rarer.
Also,funny you talk about smoothness. The 600D can barely do 24FPS to 30FPS at 1080p:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos600d/2
You have just disproved that you actually NEED 60FPS at 1080p.
Like I said the A65 and A57 only do 1080p at 60FPS at 28MBPS,and 30FPS at 24MBPS. The Canon 600D AFAIK uses a variable bitrate - one forum I read says it seems closer to 30MBPS on average and that is at 30FPS. As I mentioned before it is worth checking what bitrate the cameras are using and certainly the Sony cameras are losing image quality at higher framerates.
Unfortunately,most camera companies are not really open about the exact MBPS used but just list resolution and framerates instead.
You can hack the firmware on the Canon cameras to raise the bitrate manually but you invalidate the warranty. Its one of the reasons that I would only ever buy a Canon if I were doing any astro work as even my ancient Canon S60 had custom firmware people made for it.
The other Panasonic and Olympus cameras are doing 1080i which is worse than 1080p.
BTW,more details of the hacks for the 600D:
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Bit_rate
http://www.eoshd.com/content/6623/ca...ates-hdr-video
According to that website the standard bitrate is around 36MBPS(others have said around 30MBPS so you will need to confirm this).
The website said they managed to push the camera up to 35FPS at 1080p.
It seems the GH2 has similar hacks too:
http://www.43rumors.com/first-gh2-vi...c-26mm-review/
http://www.eoshd.com/content/3463/gh...-avchd-108024p
http://www.learnwebvideo.net/panason...1080-possible/
It improves the video output to 1080p at over 40MBPS!! A big improvement over 20MBPS at 1080i.
Cat, he's fixed on the Canon, let it go :p We both know a Nex5N is better for his uses but he's going to enjoy being a canon fan more. That fact he considers other systems low end but not the 600 shows he's too far gone ;)
I wish the Fuji X Pro 1 had a low end price tag - I would finally be able to afford one..........sigh! :(
:p
even if he has gone full fantard, I still found Cat\'s research interesting.
I really don\'t do any video, yet own some capable devices.
The NEX5N does look a nice all round package(tried and tested 16MP sensor) and it has really good still image quality. But I was looking at a comparison of the 600D,GH2 and NEX5N for video and the GH2 seems to edge out the others!Quote:
Originally Posted by kalniel
Even,on a Canon owners website the GH2 is rated better:
http://www.eoshd.com/content/617/can...-which-is-best
http://www.eoshd.com/content/4279/ho...-video-quality
Edit!!
It even seems to do very well against the A65:
http://www.eoshd.com/content/6616/sh...-vs-canon-600d
It seems if the A65 files had a higher bitrate it might win(silly Sony).
!
:surprised:
Technically speaking it uses a lower bitrate and a smaller sensor than both the Canon and Sony cameras but it seems the camera is better optimised for video. The GH3 is going to be mighty interesting.
Edit!!
The articles on EosHD don't clarify if they are testing the cameras with hacked firmware or production firmware.
This paragraph from the last article is funny:
"We have waited far too long for a replacement image processor that does video well. As a result, Canon DSLRs have the softest image and the most moire out of any current 1080p DSLR. It isn’t a good showing but as we have seen the popularity for video of these cameras has been stratospheric thanks to good availability, famous filmmaker endorsements, massive existing user-base, huge lens selection and a lot of very well shot footage by pros."
Installling magiclanten on various canon dslr actually transforms those camera's into awsome video camera's!
Anyways are all AF points cross type on this new nikon body?
Thanks for replies guys. I did consider GF3, GH2, NEX 5N and Alpha Translucent camera range. Alpha so far has most promise. As for other mentioned they are either too pricey and hard to control (confusing menus on Nex 5N) or just hard to control (Lumix cameras). I am focusing on Canon and Alphas since menus are where they should be and performance is quite good. I rather opt for 720p 60FPS and better image than 1080P 60FPS but worse picture (GF3 users complain of high noise indoors). Have to read more since CAT-THE-FIFTH keeps pointing out my weaknesses :)
Just to add, while Sony Alpha A57 and A65 are great cameras the resale value is way lower than any canon EOS model. People just don't trust Sony (especially after their losses in recent years).
I doubt I would hold on to DSLR or Translucent Mirror or even Mirorless camera for longer than year, maybe two max. So the resale value comes into play here too. Hence the wait for EOS 650D.
I doubt that it is to do with a matter of trust. Sony is relatively newer, with a smaller user base. That said, the A57 is not even out yet, the A65 can be bought new for about £700 and sells for about £550. The 60d can also be bought for about £750, and sells for about.. £550 (going by sold prices on Ebay - and a few had kit lenses in the deal). Now granted the A65 is a newer camera, and push come to shove the Canon may well retain their value better.. but I doubt that it's "way lower", and the least of your problem if you are planning on changing cameras every 1-2 years. I'd even say that all camera bodies take a pretty big hit within the first year (the 60d's price drop from over £1000 to £800 within 3 months) and even more whenever a successor's release is imminent. Not saying that you should not wait and see if you can to see what the 650d will bring.
Note: I am a happy A65 user, but I have not invested enough into the system to be a "fan". I know that the A65 has it's weaknesses, but it is also very feature rich (I wanted GPS and HDR f). And I've decided that for my first non-P&S camera, I would go for features over absolute image/video quality. The low light performance may not be comparable to Nikon's best, it's still a large stop forward over P&S. After I've learned how to take better pictures and which features I actually use, I shall make a jump to full frame that suits my need (may not be a Sony).