News - Microsoft Windows 8 hits RTM, MSDN downloads on the 15th

[MadduckUK]

At least the Vista launch got people talking, if only for the wrong reasons. This is just depressing.

[Nikumba]

I like the Metro UI, there I said it.

I really do not see people problem with it, its just like a big start button.

While not everyone likes it, at least Microsoft are trying something new/innovate the UI for a PC has remained largely unchanged for years, however with MS standardising their UI across the phone/xbox/pc market people who have one device will feel at home with another.

The desktop is still there you just click the desktop icon, but think about it what do you *really* need the desktop for?

Its a place to keep icons well your icons are on the Metro UI, Windows+R still works, so is searching for a program, on Win7 I can not remember the last time I used the mouse to look for a program in my start menu, press the windows button start typing press enter done.

It is also the geek world who seem to be kicking up the most fuss about Metro when we are the tiny tiny tiny portion of the market this is aimed for, if you don't like it go to Linux play your games there.

And I know slightly on a tangent people saying oh Linux is getting steam etc kick start the gaming industry, well I don't think it will, Linux is too fragmented, some distros like hardware some dont, you sometimes have to tweak and fiddle in the command line to get your sound working.

The games industry will not put up with people complaining why the latest game has no sound for them on Linux etc, it works on Mac's as that is a utterly closed system with incredibly specific hardware controlled by the people who make the OS

[aidanjt]

And I know slightly on a tangent people saying oh Linux is getting steam etc kick start the gaming industry, well I don't think it will, Linux is too fragmented, some distros like hardware some dont, you sometimes have to tweak and fiddle in the command line to get your sound working.

Please stop talking about Linux, you're clearly talking out of hearsay. 'Distro fragmentation' is a red herring. Yes there's lots of distros. No that really doesn't matter. They're all running the Linux kernel, the Linux kernel determines the executable format, not the distro, as such, really old RHEL/Debian/tarball binaries work on my completely non-standard Gentoo just fine. Same with soundcards, ALSA drivers are supplied by the kernel, so it doesn't matter which distro you pick, because they all use the same kernel, and the same goes for other pieces of hardware. And no, using RHEL 4 as an example doesn't count. That makes about as much sense as expecting every bit of modern hardware to work with Windows XP out of the box, and that's just *never* happened, much less with modern hardware.

The games industry will not put up with people complaining why the latest game has no sound for them on Linux etc, it works on Mac's as that is a utterly closed system with incredibly specific hardware controlled by the people who make the OS

Sorry, but this is just purely retarded. Why would the games industry support hardware problems? You don't phone/email blizzard support when your Creative soundcard isn't working with Windows, do you?

[dangel]

Apparently the RTM build has already leaked online.. (!)

People aren't talking abourt it MaddockUK? I beg to differ!

[Nikumba]

Please stop talking about Linux, you're clearly talking out of hearsay. 'Distro fragmentation' is a red herring. Yes there's lots of distros. No that really doesn't matter. They're all running the Linux kernel, the Linux kernel determines the executable format, not the distro, as such, really old RHEL/Debian/tarball binaries work on my completely non-standard Gentoo just fine. Same with soundcards, ALSA drivers are supplied by the kernel, so it doesn't matter which distro you pick, because they all use the same kernel, and the same goes for other pieces of hardware. And no, using RHEL 4 as an example doesn't count. That makes about as much sense as expecting every bit of modern hardware to work with Windows XP out of the box, and that's just *never* happened, much less with modern hardware.

Sorry, but this is just purely retarded. Why would the games industry support hardware problems? You don't phone/email blizzard support when your Creative soundcard isn't working with Windows, do you?

I am not talking our hearsay I am talking from my own experience, but it would appear things have changed but I had an issue with Ubuntu 11.10 I believe the 64bit version would not install with my GTX285 but the 32bit would now I did find a work around but that meant finding the right forums, manually editing config file etc not very user friendly.

No I would not ring creative, however Linux support for sound and gfx devices does appear to be the red-headed stepchild kept in the basement, so you ring Creative because the ALSA doesnt work with your creative sound card, or they do not have linux drivers, the creative support guy in India tells you to ring the person who made your OS again which is not helping.

And on a side note I have rang a game manufacture before regarding their software not working with my hardware, when turns out it was a bug in their game that was causing the problem

Kimibe

[aidanjt]

I am not talking our hearsay I am talking from my own experience, but it would appear things have changed but I had an issue with Ubuntu 11.10 I believe the 64bit version would not install with my GTX285 but the 32bit would now I did find a work around but that meant finding the right forums, manually editing config file etc not very user friendly.

There is absolutely nothing, NOTHING in your graphics hardware which would block the installation of Ubuntu on your machine. Hell you can install Ubuntu *without* a graphics card if you know what a serial port is and how to use it. Not that that would be nessecery, there's no card the VGA/VESA driver hasn't been able work with, even if just rudimentary display.

No I would not ring creative, however Linux support for sound and gfx devices does appear to be the red-headed stepchild kept in the basement, so you ring Creative because the ALSA doesnt work with your creative sound card, or they do not have linux drivers, the creative support guy in India tells you to ring the person who made your OS again which is not helping.

Which is the right call. Creative open sourced their X-Fi drivers years ago, and pretty much everything pre-X-Fi worked perfectly in the first place. So the ALSA developers are the right guys to talk to. I think pretty much all the Asus sound cards are covered as well, and all the HDA codecs are covered too, as well as the legacy ISA cards which even windows has long since abandoned, and thousands of other models. So, now what?

And on a side note I have rang a game manufacture before regarding their software not working with my hardware, when turns out it was a bug in their game that was causing the problem

Which is fine in situations where the bug only exists in their application. Not a kernel matter.

[Spud1]

Nuh uh. Something as basic as DVD support should be included. Does it really take up so much space that they couldn't include it? And what's with charging for it anyway? Is it a space thing or a money thing?

I would also argue that something as Basic as a Web browser and media player should be included The EU has a different opinion though!

Cost is also a major factor, it's only a few pence but scaled up that is a huge number. The same reason why Nintendo didn't include DVD support in the gamecube - it cost a few pence more (you had to get a panasonic Q which included the licence, or hack the GCN to bits to get it to play them).

I don't use the DVD playback in W7 though, as VLC is much better at it

Apparently the RTM build has already leaked online.. (!)

Only the Enterprise-N version though, which is many respects is one of the best versions to leak..since it won't be desireable to most users out there Gotta have come from the OEMs who got their copies this week.

[Moby-Dick]

Happy to wait till the 15th should have my FTTC in place by then so not fussed about the download

[cjs150]

for the HTPC as Windows 8 does not support out of the box DVD or Blu ray playback it is completely useless

How so? Do you use WMC, XBMC or something else? The WMC pack will cost a few quid, bringing native DVD playback along for the ride. XBMC and everything else will still play DVDs as normal. Surely the Metro UI is a boon on a HTPC - a few months down the line we'll no doubt have seen various clever methods of controlling it and it's apps from the couch (Kinect support? Smartphone/tablet controlled?).

This is a purley HTPC point. It is relevant for me because I am building one at the moment. I wanted to use Windows 8 on that build because the UI makes more sense than Windows 7 when controlling from the couch.

With Windows 7+ media centre DVDs just worked. Blu-ray is the next step up and so it was not unreasonable to expect that to just work as well when windows 8 came along but instead I will need to buy/download additional programs and codecs.

If I am going to do that then I might as well wait for Blu-ray support on Linux and use XBMC with Ubuntu. Like Spud 1 I also use VLC regularly (it will play files that WMP will not) but it is not really geared up for use from the couch

[dangel]

This is a purley HTPC point. It is relevant for me because I am building one at the moment. I wanted to use Windows 8 on that build because the UI makes more sense than Windows 7 when controlling from the couch.

With Windows 7+ media centre DVDs just worked. Blu-ray is the next step up and so it was not unreasonable to expect that to just work as well when windows 8 came along but instead I will need to buy/download additional programs and codecs.

If I am going to do that then I might as well wait for Blu-ray support on Linux and use XBMC with Ubuntu. Like Spud 1 I also use VLC regularly (it will play files that WMP will not) but it is not really geared up for use from the couch

Truth is i'm already not using the MS decoder for DVD playback - I use the one built into FFDshow (in fact I use it for almost everything) which is free. You don't have to pay for it at all on Windows so it's not a bleak as yo might think The downside with 8 really is that a nominal fee will be charged for WMC itself (although I think I read this doesn't seem to be the case for upgrades from OS' which already had WMC [e.g. home premium]). Of course you can use XBMC on Windows too (and on just about anything) but there support for TV recording was a little 'beta' the last time I checked it out (feel free to correct me if this has improved). Not knocking your choices - it's great to have alternatives I do need good TV recording though.

I might well try 8 in my HTPC (after imaging the drive of course..) and report back my findings later this month. Obviously the HTPC is about one of the most sensitive systems in the house - it being 'borked' is not a option when you're married..

Only the Enterprise-N version though, which is many respects is one of the best versions to leak..since it won't be desireable to most users out there Gotta have come from the OEMs who got their copies this week.

True. Must admit i'd love to not have to wait two weeks but I do want the full fat version with the media center addon too.

[aidanjt]

I don't mind Microsoft excluding DVD decoding and WMC to keep costs down (providing the product price reflects that) since they're offering the whole media package as a paid addon. There's free competition for both problems as well, so you wont be shorted by much. They still have to license mp3 and mp4 for every day media.

[simonpreston]

Not sure I quite understand the Windows 8 is terrible stance. It's a very good looking OS, built on the, now solid, NT6 platform. It has many tweaks under the hood, with more tools built in, to make power users happy. It certainly isn't an awful OS; certainly not in the Windows ME or Windows Vista pre SP2 sense.

However, I can see why the Metro UI is massively disliked. I'm not a fan of it either and, should I stick Windows 8 on a machine, I'll be sticking on Classic Shell the moment the install is complete. Tiles on my desktop is a massive no-no. Plus MS have said they want users to use the taskbar more (by pinning programmes) but that is such a ball ache to set up; having to go through the Metro UI to find something, start it, pin it. Certainly not as swift as a simple start menu click. Very cumbersome.

DVD's.... the only time a DVD Video goes in to my computer it's just to rip it to a file so I have no need for that.

The next question is whether or not it's a worthwhile upgrade from Windows 7. For me it doesn't look like it. Windows 7 will remain perfectly useable during 8's lifespan and 8 doesn't add anything extra that I 'have' to have. I should be able to get a free copy via the MSDN Academic Alliance so I it won't cost me anything to get it on to a machine, but I doubt I'd pay to upgrade all my 7 machines.

But, barring the Metro UI, which I feel is a bad idea to force on to users from MS, Windows 8 is a very good OS.... but having said that, I don't think it'll be successful.

[cam1986]

Not sure about Win8. Will see what happens later in the year

[Hicks12]

@simonpreston, its easier to pin to taskbar in Windows 8 than windows 7 as all you do is open metro (windows key) and right click the application then click at the bottom where it says pin to task bar. In windows 7 I always pinned important/frequent programs to the task bar and ive continued that to Windows 8 but I have also been able to use the Metro interface as a good extension .

[aidanjt]

Not sure I quite understand the Windows 8 is terrible stance....

...However, I can see why the Metro UI is massively disliked. I'm not a fan of it either

Join these statements together and you'll understand the 'Windows 8 is terrible' stance.

Remember, as far as Microsoft is concerned, 'metro is the future', and where their core focus will be on. Not developing the desktop, but developing metro fondlewidgets.

[aidanjt]

@simonpreston, its easier to pin to taskbar in Windows 8 than windows 7 as all you do is open metro (windows key) and right click the application then click at the bottom where it says pin to task bar. In windows 7 I always pinned important/frequent programs to the task bar and ive continued that to Windows 8 but I have also been able to use the Metro interface as a good extension .

Huh? How is that easier? It's the exact same procedure as with Windows 7, except you select the app via the start menu instead of the full screen metro wall.