News - Following Apple’s court victory Samsung shares drop $12 billion

[TooNice]

Many phone's look like iPhones, Apple just went for the biggest player...

Going for the bigger player has it's risks too as the player are better funded to fight the case. Had they gone for a small player, they would be accused of bullying and seeking an easier way to set a precedent. Not to mention that a small enough player can be wiped out outright even if they win the case (see Creative vs Aureal). I am no fan of litigation happen companies, but if they are going to do it, I would prefer it that they pick someone of their own size (or close enough).

[crossy]

I wonder what will happen if the Android alliance ( Samsung + LG + HTC + SONY + MOTOROLA + ACER + ASUS ) go after Apple ?
Apple will be wiped out of existence.

Would never happen - apart from anything else don't some of those companies supply Apple with key components? And didn't someone (here?) say that those companies make more profit from component sales than phone ones?

Given the recent ruling, I wouldn't be so sure.
You'd have to go after them in US courts.....and there lies the problem

Do they? Isn't there that ITO thing where companies can "discuss" global IP violations? Or is Apple's assertion that it's only the (for example) the SII in the US that violates their 'patents' whereas the EU SII is perfectly legit?

I can't see me buying anything from them anytime soon... odious company (and their store in Glasgow sucks).

[crossy]

Samsung had it coming to them to be fair. They copied too many of Apple's designs.

That being the "rectangular telephonic device with buttons" presumably

Even the box the Galaxy phones come in is extremely similar.

It's a box ffs - unless you're now going to tell me that Apple's patented the cardboard box (what next - fire?). And it's only similar in that's a coloured rectangular container - plus the text on it should differentiate it - unless (like some of the US public apparently) you have the IQ of a house brick - and I doubt that is the case.

Google even warned them about the Galaxy tab.

Interesting - I'd not heard about that - got any links you'd care to share? That said, my Asus Transformer has been accused of being "a new iPad" - which raises a smile, considering it's an old model.

They should be more like HTC, Motorola and Sony. Their phones don't look anything like the iPhone.

Erm, didn't Apple and Motorola both get sued by the Apple litigation-atron? There was also some talk that the original 'droid Xperia - the X10 - was "visually similar to the original iPhones". Can't see it myself, but hey, I'll admit to a bias.

And personally speaking - I'm f***ing glad that those manufacturers didn't copy Apple (oh, and by the way the S3 looks NOTHING like any Apple product) since I still abhor the "design" of the 4/4S - looks like a piece of HiFi from the 80's or my old Coolermaster ATC220VX case. Still think that the SE Arc S is the nicest design - even beating my S3.

[OilSheikh]

Android Alliance - take note of where you heard it first. I hereby patent the term.

[scaryjim]

... That said, my Asus Transformer has been accused of being "a new iPad" - which raises a smile, considering it's an old model. ...

I can go one better - people asked me if my HTC Magic was an iPhone, despite looking nothing like one! So if a patent can be enforced on "Would a normal person in the street be confused?" then Apple are onto a winner - because apparently normal people in the street are permanently confused and already think that every smartphone is an apple!

[TooNice]

Interesting - I'd not heard about that - got any links you'd care to share?

http://allthingsd.com/20120725/apple...nst-copying-us

This was mentioned in quite a few other sources too (I am saying this because I quickly Googled this link and haven't verified if the site is relatively neutral about the matter).

It's all part of the internal documents Apple used against Samsung, and in my view, the most damning evidence against Samsung.

The argument could be made that it's unrealistic to expect that companies do not analyse competitor's products.

And if one were to subtely "borrowing" an idea or two, it'll probably go under the radar, and it's unlikely that you'll get called for it.

But once you start going through the design and aesthetic element one by one, and suggest ways to make it closer to it, it becomes harder to convince the jury that it was a simple case of form following functions.

What they should have done, is do the comparison, acknowledge areas they felt Apple did better, then suggest ways to improve upon it, by adding something that Apple did not have. Had they done that, I think that they could've argued that they didn't copy, but "innovated".

It's harder to do with design (in relation to fitting better internal components), and the number of ways you can make something sensible is probably finite.. but I can believe that more could yet be done than what we've seen.

The only thing I can add, is that such elements make more sense in a Trademark than Patent litigations but that's it..

[crossy]

http://allthingsd.com/20120725/apple...nst-copying-usThis was mentioned in quite a few other sources too (I am saying this because I quickly Googled this link and haven't verified if the site is relatively neutral about the matter).

Thanks - I'll chase that one down now.

But once you start going through the design and aesthetic element one by one, and suggest ways to make it closer to it, it becomes harder to convince the jury that it was a simple case of form following functions. What they should have done, is do the comparison, acknowledge areas they felt Apple did better, then suggest ways to improve upon it, by adding something that Apple did not have. Had they done that, I think that they could've argued that they didn't copy, but "innovated".

Agree with that totally - like you I think it's pretty damned lazy (and therefore poor engineering) to slavishly copy a UI. There's not one out there that couldn't be improved - and yes, that includes that iOS one that everyone seems to hold in highest esteem.

What's worrying me - to an extent - is that Apple will now claim that all future Samsung devices (including the S3 I've got) have been built from that copied base - "derivative works". And they'll probably be able to find a dumb US jury to agree with them!

It's harder to do with design (in relation to fitting better internal components), and the number of ways you can make something sensible is probably finite.. but I can believe that more could yet be done than what we've seen. The only thing I can add, is that such elements make more sense in a Trademark than Patent litigations but that's it..

Again, sensible statement - some minor degree of copying is permissible if the method/form in question is the best, or only, way to achieve something, and can be shown to be such. I think that's what annoyed me most about that iPad form copyright trial in Germany recently - what Apple were trying to lay dibs on was the best way to achieve a tablet design (and one - to boot - that they didn't invent!)

[Camoxide]

The HP touchpad box doesn't even remotley look like an iPad box





That palm pre box opens with a pull out and is significantly bigger than the iPhone box.

It's not just the look. It's the feel of the box. they way you open it, the way the phone sits inside of it, the little plastic thing with the tab the phone sits in.

[Camoxide]

Looks like I was wrong - it does not even have a picture on it!

Apple might need to sue HP now - the TouchPad used a white box with a picture on it. OTH,HP has patents,plenty of them.

TP Box



iPad Box



Palm Pre Box



The Palm Pre come out in 2009,so perhaps not.

They had a white fronted mobile phone box before Apple!!

Oh Noes!!

The HP touchpad box doesn't even remotley look like an iPad box





That palm pre box opens with a pull out and is significantly bigger than the iPhone box.

It's not just the look. It's the feel of the box. they way you open it, the way the phone sits inside of it, the little plastic thing with the tab the phone sits in.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

No phone picture. No logo. No item name on the top for Apples design.

Which bit is "pretty much exactly the same" exactly?

Box: A container with a flat base and sides, typically square or rectangular and having a lid.

We're discussing a box. I'm not sure how this can be spun to have been copied.

The HP touchpad box doesn't even remotley look like an iPad box





That palm pre box opens with a pull out and is significantly bigger than the iPhone box.
.

It's not just the look. It's the feel of the box. they way you open it, the way the phone sits inside of it, the little plastic thing with the tab the phone sits in.

Right,so the Samsung phone box is nothing like the Apple one. The feel and look are different.

Good,you finally realised what you were saying was wrong,akin,to saying the Lion is the King of the Jungle,or the Canadian Moose are the same as the North American Elk.

[Camoxide]

That being the "rectangular telephonic device with buttons" presumably

It's a box ffs - unless you're now going to tell me that Apple's patented the cardboard box (what next - fire?). And it's only similar in that's a coloured rectangular container - plus the text on it should differentiate it - unless (like some of the US public apparently) you have the IQ of a house brick - and I doubt that is the case.

Interesting - I'd not heard about that - got any links you'd care to share? That said, my Asus Transformer has been accused of being "a new iPad" - which raises a smile, considering it's an old model.
Erm, didn't Apple and Motorola both get sued by the Apple litigation-atron? There was also some talk that the original 'droid Xperia - the X10 - was "visually similar to the original iPhones". Can't see it myself, but hey, I'll admit to a bias.

And personally speaking - I'm f***ing glad that those manufacturers didn't copy Apple (oh, and by the way the S3 looks NOTHING like any Apple product) since I still abhor the "design" of the 4/4S - looks like a piece of HiFi from the 80's or my old Coolermaster ATC220VX case. Still think that the SE Arc S is the nicest design - even beating my S3.

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-...esigns-1090148

I googled that case btw and the only thing that came up was your post in this thread.

Anywho back to the subject.
I think what pushed the trial towards Apple was the Samsung touchwiz looks too simular to iOS.
With HTC and Sony's version of Android, there is a clear difference.

I'm convinced this single icon is the main reason the Jury went with Apple

[Agent]

It's not just the look. It's the feel of the box.

I've got to be blunt: Are you trolling us?

If not and you actually are serious, could you please define the 'look' and 'feel' of the box a bit further than 6 sides with a picture on?

It's just....I'm struggling to get to grips with this entire 'ripping off a box' concept that some Apple users seem to be able to grasp. They have 6 sides and usually show the product on the front....I'm at a loss.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Boxes are made of cardboard,Samsung uses cardboard boxes,cardboard contains cellulose,an Apple contains cellulose,hence Samsung copied Apple.

[Camoxide]

Boxes are made of cardboard,Samsung uses cardboard boxes,cardboard contains cellulose,an Apple contains cellulose,hence Samsung copied Apple.

Yes exactly that...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I'm at a loss.

Me too,he also thinks that since cardboard uses cellulose,Samsung copied Apple!!

Boxes are made of cardboard,Samsung uses cardboard boxes,cardboard contains cellulose,an Apple contains cellulose,hence Samsung copied Apple.

Yes exactly that...

[aidanjt]

Yes exactly that...

Can you share whatever you're smoking with the rest of the class, please?