News - HMV in administration, 4,500 jobs at risk, all vouchers nullified

I wasn't actually referring to the Government paying people directly.

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Originally Posted by TheAnimus

It's as if you just can't grasp the idea of administration.

Nothing has been ignored, the company that made the agreement about that is gnoe, its dead, its pushing up the daisies.....

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No it isn't, the trademarks are still the property of the company, it still has staff, it's still trading under those trademarks, it still retains all its assets and the administrators are looking for someone to buy the company (you can't sell something which doesn't exist). Only the management of the company has been transferred to administrative receivers, and has special legal status regarding its commitments, the administrators made the decision on behalf of the company, and the company is, under the administrators, swindling people out of their money by refusing to honour their agreement to exchange the purchased vouchers for goods (which they were selling throughout the Christmas period), all the while they're still selling goods.

Can you imagine if a central bank did a similar thing with their currency? People would cry "thieves! swindlers! conmen!", and they'd be right, because they'd be stuck with a debt burden in exchange for worthless transaction tokens. And is morally and ethically bankrupt.

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Originally Posted by Jonj1611

I know a lot of people are blaming the internet but I think the Government has to take the blame here as well, you give people less money to spend while prices are still going up and of course people are going to be spending less, I know its not a luxury but just look at the places closing down, electrical shops, entertainment and dvd rental, all of them those little extra things you may buy yourself.

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Both these have gone because of the internet...

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

and the company is, under the administrators, swindling people out of their money by refusing to honour their agreement to exchange the purchased vouchers for goods

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Because the obligation was with the now defunct management.

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

Can you imagine if a central bank did a similar thing with their currency? People would cry "thieves! swindlers! conmen!", and they'd be right, because they'd be stuck with a debt burden in exchange for worthless transaction tokens. And is morally and ethically bankrupt.

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Central banks generally do that,try and get your gold from the BoE.

As for central defaults? It
happens!

Anyone who bought an HMV voucher is dumb, really dumb. I thought we'd covered this after the collapse of that "christmass savings, that you can only spend via us" company.

Would voucher holders prefer that the company just disappear, so they feel like they are not "swindled" from their voucher? What about the people who've provided services in good faith, who won't be paid? Are they too swindled?

This attutide is typical of someone who's never done something, tell me have you ever run a company? Ever bootstrapped an idea? 9 out of 10 fail they say you know.

Complaining about the vouchers is silly. Little timmy not being able to buy the sex in the city boxset isn't going to hurt anyone signficantly. You might find there are plenty of suppliers who won't be paid, how many contract cleaners might now find themselves without pay for the time worked. How many suppliers of services, goods that have been consumed will be loosing out.

For example when Woolworths when under (were you leading the charge about vouchers then?) they brought the formally known as Virgin Megastores down with them.

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

No it isn't, the trademarks are still the property of the company, it still has staff, it's still trading under those trademarks, it still retains all its assets and the administrators are looking for someone to buy the company (you can't sell something which doesn't exist). Only the management of the company has been transferred to administrative receivers, and has special legal status regarding its commitments, the administrators made the decision on behalf of the company, and the company is, under the administrators, swindling people out of their money by refusing to honour their agreement to exchange the purchased vouchers for goods (which they were selling throughout the Christmas period), all the while they're still selling goods.

Can you imagine if a central bank did a similar thing with their currency? People would cry "thieves! swindlers! conmen!", and they'd be right, because they'd be stuck with a debt burden in exchange for worthless transaction tokens. And is morally and ethically bankrupt.

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Central banks have and will do something similiar - they devalue currency, meaning that bank notes you were given previously are either worthless or worth less than they were. The administrators are just doing their job, simple as. If you want to blame anybody, try, and I mean try and blame the legislation...and that will get you diddly. Oh and I really hope you bank with Barclays, as so far in the last 18 months they have been found infringing customers rights several times, including manipulating the LIBOR rates which is how banks transfer money between them. That has gained them the notorious reputation of getting the highest fine of any UK based company in history. Oh, and the previous lucky recipient of that honour was..yes Barclays

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Originally Posted by Jonj1611

I wasn't actually referring to the Government paying people directly.

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So your saying the government should tax people less?

I'm a beliver in abolishing the tax credit system, the idea of taking money away to give it back sickens me, however, I don't think anyone could really say that axing the 50p tax would save HMV. Same goes with increasing the personal allowance.

These have put money in to the hands of the consumer, well thats the tagline, but no one would have been spending it at HMV or Jessops or Blockbuster. Because simply their business models are outmoded.

People don't pay for discovery, 8 years ago, if I was using my 'smartphone' via GPRS to check the price of something against amazon, it didn't matter, no one did it. The shop would still be rewarded for helping someone discover and decide they want something. Now adays everyone does it. That hurts them, a lot. Combined with a popular media thing of telling us how poor we are, people feel they need to be frugal, that makes them harder to sell too.

Look at the shift on the highstreet, pound shops are booming, but so is Waitrose. People are willing to pay a premium, but only if they feel they get something. HMV didn't deliver that. If people are only buying some x-factor trash, they'll buy it at ASDA like the chavs they are, HMV didn't engage with that.

HMV had no home userbase that was spending money. For people who are happy to discover new music, Spofity/Zunepass are much more convient. If you want the CD, well then amazon is less effort than getting in to the highstreet.

So if anything the government could have done to help them it would have been at the local level, not gouging people for parking, encouraging people to come in to town, rather than traffic systems that do the opposite. Lower commercial rates for retail premesis. But I don't think any of that would have saved HMV. They consigned themselves to this fate 10 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Jonj1611

I think people who were given them as xmas presents were probably bought well in advance of xmas and it wasn't that well reported on the general news which I am guessing a lot of people buying vouchers would be watching. Also once you buy vouchers you can't take them back for a refund :/

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HMV been in trouble for at least a couple of years, if I remember they were warnings given back in October and November and December...

I didn't know about it until December let alone a couple of years ago??

Perhaps you haven't, but as a retailer would you really want people to know you're struggling as confidence would rapidly dry up in this day and age. It was reported shares wise as they have been almost worthless for most of the last 6 months. I think if you'd have looked you'd have found it, I certainly didn't have to look hard, but I was predicting them going from Sept at least!

Last Christmas they warned conditions had been tough and they tried a change in strategy with more tablets, iPod docks and introduced those stands where you could plug your own headphones in to audition equipment. I also believe they renogotiated their credit terms. The previous Christmas they ended up selling off the less profitable stores...

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Originally Posted by Jonj1611

I didn't know about it until December let alone a couple of years ago??

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Living under a rock?

Sorry? No I haven't thanks.

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Originally Posted by j.o.s.h.1408

Next that will go will be pc world/currys

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It's possible but I think it is unlikely that we will see this in the immediate future, maybe something more medium or long term. Today Dixons who own PC World and Currys announced that they sold 1 million tablets over the Christmas season. Also recently a number of manufacturers have started investing in PC World and Currys stores to create shop in shop stands like the Apple and Google chrome stores which are staffed by Apple and Google employees and help the stores keep enough staff on the shop floor without having to cover the payroll costs themselves.

Companies like Canon and Nikon wanted to invest in Jessop's stores to try and do the same thing there but Peter Moore, the CEO at the time didn't want to play which was probably the last nail in the coffin for that chain, Peter Moore left the company in 2012 to become the CEO at another company. Can you guess which one, yep, that's right, HMV.

DSG seems to have done quite well out of Google's supply chain issues with the Play store. They have plenty of stock of the Nexus 7 in, and it seems to be the only place you can get it at the mo...

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Originally Posted by Kanoe

... P.S: Im not supporting HMV's pricing btw it was too high compared to the likes of amazon and they wouldnt even price match to their own website which was rubbish.

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It was a channel islands affair, similar to Play, so different taxation rules allowed lower pricing.

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Originally Posted by Jonj1611

Absolutely disgusting, they have had the money for the vouchers, they should still honour them rather than keep the cash for themselves. Especially just after xmas as well.

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Yes exactly!
That aside, Gift Vouchers always been a bugbear for me...

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Originally Posted by TheAnimus

... We should give teachers £100k a year and a unicorn each, everyone knows unicorn hair wards off inflation.

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Hmmm, strange I thought the horn did that!!
The hair would usefully make a very warm blanket for this cold snap... :)