News - Tough early reviews for the Microsoft Surface Pro

[kingpotnoodle]

Im not sure that the current mobile OSes are as a result of hardware limitations, its more about intuitively being able to accomplish something quickly on a large touchscreen, and they do it very well. Metro also does this pretty well, but i think IOs and android have an easier path for them to create a more involved desktop experience than there is for Metro to make the same transition without it just being a skin on top of a desktop.

Hardware plays a huge part in OS selection/construction otherwise Apple would have slapped a touch skin on standard OS-X for the iStuff and Android could just be another Fedora/Debian clone with a different window manager... fact is desktop OS "did too much", took up too much storage room, weren't power optimised etc and thus weren't suited to mobile use. Android isn't the same as desktop Linux, it might share a similar kernel but otherwise has been stripped right down. The touchy-feely interface is not the whole OS, an OS is more than the bit you see.

It's only recently that hardware has got more powerful per watt and Windows has been tweaked and worked on the make it reasonable to run on something like the Surface. iPad did well because it was thin, light-ish and easy to finger... old-school Windows tablets failed because they were just expensive laptops with swivel screens, too heavy to hold like that and with a crappy interface. Microsoft saw the way the wind was blowing (towards lightweight touch devices) and have tried to make Windows 8 suitable, of course there is more work to do, what software is ever perfect the first time it tries to do something? Unifying the desktop and mobile is a hard task but why would the world persist in using cut-down OS (iOS, Android etc) when it will become possible to use a full, maximum utility OS on the same mobile device?

[Biscuit]

Hardware plays a huge part in OS selection/construction otherwise Apple would have slapped a touch skin on standard OS-X for the iStuff and Android could just be another Fedora/Debian clone with a different window manager... fact is desktop OS "did too much", took up too much storage room, weren't power optimised etc and thus weren't suited to mobile use. Android isn't the same as desktop Linux, it might share a similar kernel but otherwise has been stripped right down. The touchy-feely interface is not the whole OS, an OS is more than the bit you see.

It's only recently that hardware has got more powerful per watt and Windows has been tweaked and worked on the make it reasonable to run on something like the Surface. iPad did well because it was thin, light-ish and easy to finger... old-school Windows tablets failed because they were just expensive laptops with swivel screens, too heavy to hold like that and with a crappy interface. Microsoft saw the way the wind was blowing (towards lightweight touch devices) and have tried to make Windows 8 suitable, of course there is more work to do, what software is ever perfect the first time it tries to do something? Unifying the desktop and mobile is a hard task but why would the world persist in using cut-down OS (iOS, Android etc) when it will become possible to use a full, maximum utility OS on the same mobile device?

Even if hardware limitations hadnt been present im not convinced apple or google would have done things massively different. The reality that has been proven by mobile OSes, is that you simply don't need a full OS for the most common day to day tasks. For people like me, you and most of the rest of this forum having access to a full blown OS might seem fantastic, for most people its largely just waste and bloat.

[aidanjt]

The reality that has been proven by mobile OSes, is that you simply don't need a full OS for the most common day to day tasks. For people like me, you and most of the rest of this forum having access to a full blown OS might seem fantastic, for most people its largely just waste and bloat.

I still wouldn't say no to a competent stock file manager, hint, hint mobile OS vendors.

[kingpotnoodle]

Even if hardware limitations hadnt been present im not convinced apple or google would have done things massively different. The reality that has been proven by mobile OSes, is that you simply don't need a full OS for the most common day to day tasks. For people like me, you and most of the rest of this forum having access to a full blown OS might seem fantastic, for most people its largely just waste and bloat.

I think most people will exist with what they are given, whether that is really what they need or not, until something comes up that forces them to question it. I had several conversations with the Mrs about MS Office on her iPad and she tried to use Apple's apps but ultimately now she regularly has to use my laptop or desktop instead although her computing level is generally quite basic. Sure some people can get along mostly fine with Android or iOS, but then they are stuffed *if* they need anything else... A fuller development of Windows 8 would satisfy 90% of people 90% of the time in Metro whatever interface but could go deeper if needed.

[TooNice]

Quick question: does apps on Windows Phone 8 work on the Surface RT/Pro? How about vice-versa?

[kingpotnoodle]

Quick question: does apps on Windows Phone 8 work on the Surface RT/Pro? How about vice-versa?

AFAIK only if the app publisher makes it so, but not sure.

[Biscuit]

I still wouldn't say no to a competent stock file manager, hint, hint mobile OS vendors.

I agree, android should have nailed this by now, although again i would go back to the point about most people. Most people dont give a crap where their files are, all they need to know is that they are and they can use them, therefore accessing them through their relevant applications is probably good enough. iOS will never have this, they want you to use iTunes for a good reason.

I think most people will exist with what they are given, whether that is really what they need or not, until something comes up that forces them to question it. I had several conversations with the Mrs about MS Office on her iPad and she tried to use Apple's apps but ultimately now she regularly has to use my laptop or desktop instead although her computing level is generally quite basic. Sure some people can get along mostly fine with Android or iOS, but then they are stuffed *if* they need anything else... A fuller development of Windows 8 would satisfy 90% of people 90% of the time in Metro whatever interface but could go deeper if needed.

But would you really want to do much real office work on a 10" tablet screen anyway?

Personally i use an office program just to view files on my tablet, even with a decent office program i cant imagine doing much more than very basic editing on a tablet. This is one of the examples where i think the mobile world should be separate from the desktop/laptop one.

As I said before, if MS can make it so that when you are in desktop, you are completely in desktop, and when you are in mobile, you are completely in mobile and 90%+ things can be achieved without changing too and from then yeah, jobs a gudden. At the moment I don't feel like Windows 8 achieves this.

I know this was MS's first attempt at the new touchy feely world, but a company with their experience that is so late to the game with everyone else's mistakes to learn from... I expected more. Their new direction towards the MS Apps store worries me for the future of having a separate desktop aswell.

[crossy]

I still wouldn't say no to a competent stock file manager, hint, hint mobile OS vendors.

The short-term answer to that (other than installing an app of course!) is to be choosy who's kit you buy - for example both my Asus and Samsung tablets, along with my Samsung phone, ship with a file manager.

Now okay, I'd be the first to admit that it's pretty basic, but then again if all you want to do is copy/move/rename/delete files then it's good enough. I'd be interested to hear what more you'd expect from a "competent" file manager?

I'm going to agree with Biscuit's comment though, that you probably don't need a full OS for most day-to-day tasks. Heck, I could probably just about live with some kind of thin client for my work related stuff - mainly because all the clever stuff is done on servers, so all I need is Office; a media player; web and email.

I was reading some fluff piece over the weekend, saying how the SP was a "paradigm shift" and how it'd obsolete "conventional" laptops for all but a select few. "Wrong on both counts" was my opinion of that.

I remember hearing the same for laptop PC's (no more desktops) and iTunes music store (no one will buy CD's)

[nomissivraj]

Can't say i'm surprised to be honest. It is worrying but Microsoft does seem to be falling behind these days. Windows Vista was god awful, windows 7 was a fix but now windows 8 which is far from perfect.
Windows phone will never compete with iOS or Android and i fear the same for this tablet. Also anyone else find it funny that everyone's making tablet PC's now but realising people still want a real keyboard... Tablet PC + Keyboard = under-powered laptop with touchscreen capability.

[Sohaib.27]

I've found Microsoft products to be quite premium a bit like apples products. I use their keyboard and mice and they seem really robust. I would love to try out one of these just for word and powerpoint ; )

[crossy]

Can't say i'm surprised to be honest. It is worrying but Microsoft does seem to be falling behind these days. Windows Vista was god awful, windows 7 was a fix but now windows 8 which is far from perfect.
Windows phone will never compete with iOS or Android and i fear the same for this tablet. Also anyone else find it funny that everyone's making tablet PC's now but realising people still want a real keyboard... Tablet PC + Keyboard = under-powered laptop with touchscreen capability.

That's because - and I've said this many, many times before - that's why Asus got the design of the Transformer exactly right. Design includes a dock with ultrabook type keyboard, direct connection (so no need for Bluetooth nonsense and commensurate power drain), extra battery (and the weight of that helps to keep the assembly stable) and extra ports. They also mod'ed the OS so that the keyboard is an integral part - small touches like being able to use ^C to copy.
People say "Oh, but I can do all that with an iPad, so it's just as good" - no you can't, so no it isn't.

I've found Microsoft products to be quite premium a bit like apples products. I use their keyboard and mice and they seem really robust. I would love to try out one of these just for word and powerpoint ; )

Not my experience - the older Microsoft stuff (like the Sidewinder Force Feedback joystick that's gathering dust in my loft because I can't get the drivers) was pretty good, but the current crop isn't that impressive. Much prefer Logitech (although their ecommerce site sucks badly).