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    News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Says insider source speaking to Reuters. New device will be unveiled pre-Computex.
    Read more.

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Interesting. Definitely a case of "watch this space". Be nice to have a decent option that wasn't -

    - Apple (overpriced)
    - Google (data vampire)
    - MS (Win 8 UI)

    Question is, could it get a large enough market share to get enough apps developed/ported to maker it attractive as a contender?

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Think a linux Tablet would be more interesting. Although a Firefox range of devices would be good, is there room.

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    I was more interested in the Ubuntu mobile system, I don't see Mozilla having an impact in already established smartphone markets.

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Quote Originally Posted by Noxvayl View Post
    I was more interested in the Ubuntu mobile system, I don't see Mozilla having an impact in already established smartphone markets.
    What about tablets, though? The marketplace isn't quite so established.

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Quote Originally Posted by Noxvayl View Post
    I was more interested in the Ubuntu mobile system,
    +1

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    What about tablets, though? The marketplace isn't quite so established.
    Maybe not to the same extent but I don't think there is much room for more operating systems considering the amount of apps purchased in the stores, once you get iOS or Android it requires a large selling point to get you to spend all that money on the same apps again. Microsoft have tried to get their tablet sold on the basis of Windows productivity and Office support but that doesn't seem to be enough to draw people away from iOS or Android, to be fair they priced themselves out of the market but I suspect that isn't the only reason people are not as happy with Windows on their mobile devices because Blackberry and HP failed with their respective operating systems as well. Considering the overlap for apps between your smartphone and tablet if you already are comfortable on Android or iOS I expect you to favour the same OS when choosing a tablet, as was the case with my family although I think I have persuaded them to go with Android for the tablet after they got an iPhone for the same family member.

    The reason I am interested in Ubuntu personally is because of their aim of allowing the tablet or smartphone to switch to full desktop mode when docked so you get a gesture based system for your touch screen device and a keyboard + mouse friendly interface when docked so you can get some work done on a bigger screen. I am using Ubuntu at the moment and it is a pain with dual screens, if you get both the screens to work then flash video won't display fullscreen and games run between the two screens rather than on only the one without any obvious ways to get it to work the way Windows does, at least with Windows there are some settings to get the system to work with the screens stretched, mirrored or set as primary and secondary display but Ubuntu hasn't gotten that functionality yet so I am hopeful that they get it working soon because I am not happy with a single screen for my desktop and the current problems getting simple things like programs running on the correct screen is too much of a pain to justify full time use. I'd like to use the same underlying OS for my Tablet, Smartphone and Desktop... I am not happy with the way Microsoft is going about it and Apple aren't worth considering so Ubuntu is the best bet for me at the moment. That is the kind of selling point that would entice me away from Android on tablets and is also the sort of thing I would be looking for before I recommend that anyone chooses something other than Android for their tablet.

    I should add that I quite like the BB10 operating system, my mother has it and it works brilliantly for what she needs and a Blackberry tablet would be a great work tool for businesses. I could see Blackberry being successful because of their business focus, it is good for people looking for a system that allows them to get to their information quickly and effectively which the Hub does very well. It is a different type of experience to iOS or Android so to me it has a place in the market, but Mozzila's effort seems similar to Android and iOS and as such doesn't offer anything customers would choose over those two.

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    good luck to them if they can make it.
    as people have said basing on and getting behind the existing ubuntu mobile might be a better starting block, but who are we to know, perhaps they couldnt make the deal?

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Would like to see a cheap Ubuntu tablet too. Ironically as far as distros go I've never been keen on Ubuntu however the Unity desktop seems like a really nice fit (looks nice on the phone too). A cheap x86 based tablet with a dual core modern Atom or Temash would give access to a wealth of software.

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    Would like to see a cheap Ubuntu tablet too. Ironically as far as distros go I've never been keen on Ubuntu however the Unity desktop seems like a really nice fit (looks nice on the phone too).
    Ubuntu on a Nexus 7 - the latter's not exactly expensive?
    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    A cheap x86 based tablet with a dual core modern Atom or Temash would give access to a wealth of software.
    True, but would the power management be approaching that which modern ARM-based gear can achieve? That said, I remember a really old Acer netbook (granted with the extended battery) lasting over four hours (and that was with an old Ubuntu release and HDD rather than flash storage.

    What I'd like to see is an environment where Android and Linux are low-mid range, iPad in the mid-high range and Windows also mid-high. Mainly because I can't see proper tablet Windows (not RT!!) being able to be delivered for the kind of prices that a base Nexus or perhaps Linux tablet could go for. What ever happened to that KDE-based Linux tablet?

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    What I'd like to see is an environment where Android and Linux are low-mid range, iPad in the mid-high range and Windows also mid-high. Mainly because I can't see proper tablet Windows (not RT!!) being able to be delivered for the kind of prices that a base Nexus or perhaps Linux tablet could go for. What ever happened to that KDE-based Linux tablet?
    It's interesting, but I don't think we'll see it panning out like that.

    'linux' or rather in this case Ubuntu could easily have a place in every end. From low, right up to the high end. However, Ubuntu hasn't really demonstrated much prowess when it comes to running fast on low end hardware, admittedly, neither has android. But when you see people able to make rubbish tablets for £60, this could well matter.

    Apple have got a bit of an issue. Their standardisation, huge market share, has made them the defacto best platform for apps, almost. You still can't do anything productive on one. They have this strange ground in the middle, I don't think anyone can seriously encroach on it. But it certainly isn't high end. I think we might see it shift further to the lower end too, they have polarised iOS and OS X. This makes it very hard for them to carry it across both platforms, if they try to bring in a touch friendly OS X, they will be about 12 years behind windows in APIs and the like.

    Microsoft have the issue that they fumbled in this market over a decade ago, they produced some great products (OneNote) but really didn't do anything with it. The new RT tablets are really rather great, amazon, john lewis, customer reviews speak highly of them, mine is my most frequently used tablet now which speaks volumes. However they aren't allowing anything in the low end space. I would really like a Tegra4 7" device, that has a USB Host port still, and some kind of display out. If they were priced around £250, I'd buy 4 tomorrow. If they pull their finger out and get outlook RT working (it's been rumored, but keeps faltering, something about power management issues) and group policy, it's a done deal. The problem is lots of businesses would replace their more expensive and profitable desktops with them. This will anger MS's hardware partners, and hit MS's bottom line in license sales.

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Quote Originally Posted by Noxvayl View Post
    Maybe not to the same extent but I don't think there is much room for more operating systems considering the amount of apps purchased in the stores, once you get iOS or Android it requires a large selling point to get you to spend all that money on the same apps again. Microsoft have tried to get their tablet sold on the basis of Windows productivity and Office support but that doesn't seem to be enough to draw people away from iOS or Android, to be fair they priced themselves out of the market but I suspect that isn't the only reason people are not as happy with Windows on their mobile devices because Blackberry and HP failed with their respective operating systems as well. Considering the overlap for apps between your smartphone and tablet if you already are comfortable on Android or iOS I expect you to favour the same OS when choosing a tablet, as was the case with my family although I think I have persuaded them to go with Android for the tablet after they got an iPhone for the same family member.

    The reason I am interested in Ubuntu personally is because of their aim of allowing the tablet or smartphone to switch to full desktop mode when docked so you get a gesture based system for your touch screen device and a keyboard + mouse friendly interface when docked so you can get some work done on a bigger screen. I am using Ubuntu at the moment and it is a pain with dual screens, if you get both the screens to work then flash video won't display fullscreen and games run between the two screens rather than on only the one without any obvious ways to get it to work the way Windows does, at least with Windows there are some settings to get the system to work with the screens stretched, mirrored or set as primary and secondary display but Ubuntu hasn't gotten that functionality yet so I am hopeful that they get it working soon because I am not happy with a single screen for my desktop and the current problems getting simple things like programs running on the correct screen is too much of a pain to justify full time use. I'd like to use the same underlying OS for my Tablet, Smartphone and Desktop... I am not happy with the way Microsoft is going about it and Apple aren't worth considering so Ubuntu is the best bet for me at the moment. That is the kind of selling point that would entice me away from Android on tablets and is also the sort of thing I would be looking for before I recommend that anyone chooses something other than Android for their tablet.

    I should add that I quite like the BB10 operating system, my mother has it and it works brilliantly for what she needs and a Blackberry tablet would be a great work tool for businesses. I could see Blackberry being successful because of their business focus, it is good for people looking for a system that allows them to get to their information quickly and effectively which the Hub does very well. It is a different type of experience to iOS or Android so to me it has a place in the market, but Mozzila's effort seems similar to Android and iOS and as such doesn't offer anything customers would choose over those two.
    I take the point about the crossover between tablets and smartphones, and buying apps again, but I'm not convinced the level of inertia is necessarily as high as you might think because of that.

    First, a lot of apps are free, and a lot more are pretty cheap. It's not like migrating from MS Office or Photoshop, when the investment (financially) is pretty high.

    But secondly, with a lot of apps, it's more about accessing common data than necessarily using the same app to do it. For instance, calendar data .... would it be a red line to cross if your phone used Android SaracenCal on your phone, but MozillaOS SaracenCal on your tablet? Or, for that matter, SaracenCal on your Android phone and noxvaylCal on your Ubuntu tablet, provided both apps were free or cheap, and both were easy to use and worked reliably and safely with common data?

    I think it's worth remembering that the primary design criteria for tablets and phones are different, and that each offers something the other doesn't, that being portability in one case, and far larger screen space with the implications for both display options and UI implied by that in the other case. That, of course, is exactly why a number of very popular Android apps have one version for phones, and another for tablets, like my weather app. The device design means that the optimum design for a phone is far from optimum on a 10" tablet .... yet they rely on common data.

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    First, a lot of apps are free, and a lot more are pretty cheap. It's not like migrating from MS Office or Photoshop, when the investment (financially) is pretty high.
    But it's not always the commodity price that is the cost.

    In the case of Office or Photoshop it is the cost of training the users. This can create a better lock in to an ecosystem than anything else, people are familiar. This is something that MS forgets.
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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    But it's not always the commodity price that is the cost.

    In the case of Office or Photoshop it is the cost of training the users. This can create a better lock in to an ecosystem than anything else, people are familiar. This is something that MS forgets.
    Indeed, but I'd say the mass market in phones and tablets is the consumer market, where it's more about commodity price, and perhaps fashion icon status, than about that type of lock-in. Consumers can be notoriously fickle.

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    'linux' or rather in this case Ubuntu could easily have a place in every end. From low, right up to the high end. However, Ubuntu hasn't really demonstrated much prowess when it comes to running fast on low end hardware, admittedly, neither has android. But when you see people able to make rubbish tablets for £60, this could well matter.
    Yes, I probably mis-spoke. What I'd meant is that Linux could only do low-mid range because selling "that weird Linux thing" to someone on a £500+ device is going to be a difficult sell. I wish it wasn't the case (because Ubuntu is my main OS) but them's the breaks.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Apple have got a bit of an issue. Their standardisation, huge market share, has made them the defacto best platform for apps, almost. You still can't do anything productive on one.
    I'll argue strongly against that tablets are content consumption only. And although I'm supremely unqualified (because I've never owned one) surely even stuff like all the various music sequencer, pedal effects, etc are justification that iPad's can be used for content creation, and there's also various artist sketchpad type apps available too. With that said though, I think Apple have made a conscious decision to focus on consumption - presumably because every bit earns them a little more cash. And personally speaking, if someone came to me wanting to use a tablet for creation then I'd probably point them at Windows first and Android second at the moment, before a grudging admission that "oh yes, and there's also iPad's if you desperately wanted one of those". Just wish that the software vendors would hurry and port all those lovely iOS apps to other platforms...
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    The new RT tablets are really rather great, amazon, john lewis, customer reviews speak highly of them, mine is my most frequently used tablet now which speaks volumes. However they aren't allowing anything in the low end space.
    Android for me (old Asus Transformer and Samsung Galaxy Note tablet). That said, Argos are knocking between £150 and £179 off of their Dell badged RT tablets - so a keyboardless one is the same price as an equivalent Galaxy Tab (£249). Now at that price I'd argue that they're very, very tempting.

    Oh and at that price the iPad Mini definitely looks like shockingly poor value for money!

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    Re: News - Mozilla and Foxconn working on Firefox OS tablet

    Oh indeed, don't forget the 64gb one is on dell.co.uk probably a better bet tbh.

    Thing is, the touch cover for the RT is really handy, just not £300 handy. I think MS need to really push the RT lower.

    I've played with the original transformer for a couple of days, hated it. Lately too I find with my Nexus7 google are trying to force their services down my throat, I wouldn't mind if they actually had a privacy policy, but as it stands, its not suitable for work use imsho.

    I'm half tempted to buy one of those dells for Saracen, just to see how long he keeps having MUI for. Hell why not if he's reading this; you don't like it auction it for some charity, if you do like it, donate to MSF:UK for me!
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