News - FIGnition inFUZE 20MHz 8-bit computer kit now available

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RS Components launches this self-build computer kit, aimed at the educational market.

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Interesting idea, but you can be a Raspberry pi for under £31

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Originally Posted by David Wheeldon

Interesting idea, but you can be a Raspberry pi for under £31

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Which would be relevant if there was any more than a passing similarity between the two products. But there isn't.

I know the Rasb Pi is a good product, but seriously, why must *every* single board computer produced be compared to the Pi when it's only similarity is that it's got a PCB? *sigh*

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Originally Posted by scaryjim

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Originally Posted by David Wheeldon

Interesting idea, but you can be a Raspberry pi for under £31

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Which would be relevant if there was any more than a passing similarity between the two products. But there isn't.

I know the Rasb Pi is a good product, but seriously, why must *every* single board computer produced be compared to the Pi when it's only similarity is that it's got a PCB? *sigh*

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Because it's like raspberrys in a pie, which sounds tasty. Best reason I can think of...

I don't think the Raspberry Pi has been a success.

What me with a controversial opinion? Just think about what they set out to do, help kids learn about computers. Does having a little PCB with a few components + SoC help that? No. When I first used an ARM chip powered computer, you could solder on new bits easily.

The OS is just a Linux one, hardly easy to get started with, and teaching Python? I know its in the middle of its hype cycle right now, but compare it to the old Acorn powered Draw Turtle and stuff this isn't going to help at the lower levels. Python could have been run on whatever computer equipment they had before anyway.

When teaching something that was more electronic than programming, we would start kids off making an LED blink and go from there.

This is think is why the Pi is such a failure, it has just been bought by all this 20+ guys who already know enough about IT. Most people I know who bought one, still haven't used it for anything yet beyond a media player.

This is completely different. This is a simple starter kit of a microcontroller. It will be targeted at people wanting to do more of an LED blinking, than making something complex. FOURTH isn't a language to write anything complex in!

It is quite expensive for what it is however, and I would still teach programming via a Lego Mindstorms or even just a PIC if I didn't have the cash. But it is filling a gap better than the Pi does.

Less than impressed by the sub-80s-graphical-capability - except I believe that the display is being driven entirely in software on the CPU.

TheAnimus: the fact that Rasp Pi can be used as a fully functioning HTPC is truly impressive. Other people have used it as a NAS, webserver even a camera. I have even seen it being used as a multi node server (built out of lego). It is a real success, of course the limiting factor in education use is likely to be the teachers not the pupils.

My 11 year old wants a computer for birthday. My solution is to get the Raspberry pi, some cabling and a "how to" book and let him work it out. Should be very interesting

What an appalling idea. 80s hardware with the need to solder!

Nice idea - I'd probably have had a bash with this myself with more time, and if I still had my old soldering kit.

FORTH is an acquired taste.

Darn...I was hoping this is for something I can use MsDos for...it would be cool to play retro games on this, but the display isn't impressive. I would like to have at least 320x160.

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Originally Posted by cjs150

TheAnimus: the fact that Rasp Pi can be used as a fully functioning HTPC is truly impressive. Other people have used it as a NAS, webserver even a camera. I have even seen it being used as a multi node server (built out of lego). It is a real success, of course the limiting factor in education use is likely to be the teachers not the pupils.

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And how pray, do any of those help teach computing? Not one of them does any better than if you'd bought them a mobile phone.

These are all uses by people who are already into technology and wanted a low cost single board computer they could use to run software that's already been written by other people.

Not one of those uses is new, or much of an improvement in learning. OOOOOH a cheaper media PC. That's how we can teach the kids.

Having mentored children who wanted to go into engineering/science at higher education, sometimes children as young as 8, I can say it is much easier to teach with Lego Mindstorms than a pi. Much, much easier and much better.

Which is a more interesting project? Programming a robot to follow a line (two IR sensors, two motors) or learning some python? First I'd program it in a flow chart language. Then only after they are comfortable with the idea of variables, iterators, interrupts without even knowing they are, look at a procedural language.

The pi has failed massively in its stated goal, it is the £30 beer money level toy of people who already have an interest it.

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Originally Posted by cjs150

My 11 year old wants a computer for birthday. My solution is to get the Raspberry pi, some cabling and a "how to" book and let him work it out. Should be very interesting

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Learn what? How to plug in HDMI, power and a USB keyboard n mouse? Heck make it the advanced class and plug in an audio device.

The first learning experience of installing something on a computer I remember was a video ram upgrade. That involved learning to solder. I wasn't even 7 yet because I remember the town we lived in context.

Plugging in a bloody cable, or formatting an SD card isn't going to teach anyone jack squat. They won't even bother firing up the Python package that is meant to help them learn, it will be just a case of straight onto MyFace or whatever to do some virtual farming.

Hell they would learn far more if you bought an old computer off ebay for £50, ripped out all the components, unscrewing everything and left them too it.

The Pi is a cancer because of people pretending it is to help someone learn. It clearly doesn't. Now in as much as an xbox doesn't help someone learn programming or computing, it doesn't mean its a bad thing, that can't be used for a lot of fun, but be honest about what it is.

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Originally Posted by OilSheikh

What an appalling idea. 80s hardware with the need to solder!

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Yeah, why use DIL packages at all! And a learning computer requiring soldering?! Hah! Why ever teach such a useful basic, vital electronic engineering skill. It's insane. And an 8bit bus. Pah! How would having a simple, easy to debug, learn and fully comprehend microprocessor be of any use to anyone who is trying to learn.

THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING FFS.

This is designed for learning. Something you clearly haven't ever done about computers. It is for that, perfect. The question is, why does it cost £30 and not £15.

It is far easier to grasp how an analogue NTSC signal works, than to comprehend the madness that is a modern hardware accelerated graphics card chip like the Pi uses (which is a closed source proprietary driver, so no, they can't learn it at all!)

Sure it won't make a media centre, but it isn't for that, its for learning. It would be trivial to use this to control a cheap RC car for example.

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Originally Posted by TheAnimus

The question is, why does it cost £30 and not £15.

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My thoughts too, although for most of us it'll cost £40 with VAT!

Even at £15, I'd still recommend an Arduino to a beginner over this.

How to help people learn how this stuff works? Well...

We're building a 4-bit computer at my university that you assemble yourself... various components on small boards connected via CAT5 cable - RAM, ROM, logic, registers, clock, etc.

I haven't seen it yet as I'm not actively involved in it, and I'm not sure how much information has been released about it yet. I'll be sure to shout about it when there's something to show off.

Looks to me like its only value is nostalgia for a very specific age group. There are a lot of microcontroller kits (Arduino for example, but lots of others) and one which hooks to an analogue TV feels like too much of a throwback.

Actually the RPi is a bit of a con, sure it's about £20-30, but you need a case (£5), power supply (£5), SD card (£5), cabling (£5), wireless card (£5-10) and other peripherals. It adds up pretty fast. It's still cheaper than most other things for its type. I own one and I love it for making a pop-up web server.

This is more comparable to the Arduino, in which case it's a waste of money. There is no ecosystem, whereas the Arduino has stacks of example code, libraries for most of the popular chips out there and a massive community.

To say this sort of hardware is antiquated, however, is missing the point and is frankly ignorant of the large number of people that use these things daily. Amateur electronics is gaining popularity all the time, and it's no longer relegated to strange people who hide from their wives in the shed. People use these for plenty of practical and bizarre projects like homebrew monitoring, quadcopter controllers to name a few. Why? Because 90% of the time it's cheaper than buying an off the shelf device. Remember that most of the advanced stuff is what you plug into the chips, e.g. state of the art sensors, OLED displays, etc. The actual chips haven't changed much in 30 years besides some newer communication protocols, smaller packages (DIP is still ubiquitous) and things like USB support.

I work among a lot of smart people, engineers, physicists, programmers, etc all well qualified (most with PhD level training) and more and more often you see Arduinos in people's offices performing simple tasks where using a £10,000 LeCroy or Agilant is just a waste of money.

As for the analogue TV side, most new TVs have RCA inputs still so that's not really an issue.