News - Microsoft surprised by Chinese Windows 8 ban

[Saracen]

The key point here is that the EOL dates have been extended. I don't see how you can claim an extension to EOL dates to be a bad thing for clients, since they can quite happily cycle out their update plans at the date they'd previously planned, if they wished. Or alternatively shelving a plan for 24 months due to an EOL extension is hardly a costly exercise and overall cheaper than upgrading sooner.
Microsoft published the EOL date that we've now passed, for XP, back in 2006. That's before Vista was even released. That's also almost 8 years over which the EOL date has not been moved which is why the incompetence of organisations like HMRC who have somehow failed to prepare adequately for this, frustrates me so much.

I'm not claiming it's a bad thing for clients. Not at all.

What I said was that by not giving a clear and definitive end date for support when releasing the OS, MS have helped create the problem, by creating an expectation that support will go on and on.

Contrast Linux distros. You get a clear date for each distro, AND are told that this version, or that, is an LTS (long term support) version, and a date maybe 5 years from now until which that LTS will be supported. So you know, before downloading, that you can go for the latest, but have to upgrade fairly quickly, or be more cautious and get a fixed LTS date some years off. Those for whom stability and predictability, like support departments, will presumably opt for the LTS.

If you know, prior to downloading (or buying, in Windows case) that support finishes on Aug 21st, 2018, you can't really bitch about it when it does. By not specifying, in advance, exactly when support ends, you set yourself up for moans, whenever you end it, be it 5 years or 15 years.

[DemonHighwayman]

#1 Unlike the U.S, China actually have proof of the U.S cyber spying
#2 Microsoft have let the NSA and other U.S government agencies install back doors in versions of windows
#3 Windows 8 has twice (that i'm aware of) required an update to get future eh updates. I'd imagine large networks would have problems updating all systems in the time frame windows 8 requires - Problem.

Now if microsoft are surprised by China not wanting Win8 on government systems then perhaps it's time for them to collectively remove their fingers from their dark place.

China is not alone with trying to adopt a cheaper OS for government computers, I know that France was trying to use a linux distro, before winXP came to a halt on Government systems. And i'm sure I have read of other countries following suit, i'd have to re-check info about the others, but i'm sure there are a few !

[mercyground]

My bet is that you are required to continually "update" win8 and the lack of true "service" packs anymore but just rolling patches thus giving you no baseline. Its already been said that unless you are on the latest update of 8 that you are unsupported.

Personally i'll be sticking with 7 and i might try 9.

[miniyazz]

I'm not claiming it's a bad thing for clients. Not at all.

What I said was that by not giving a clear and definitive end date for support when releasing the OS, MS have helped create the problem, by creating an expectation that support will go on and on.

Contrast Linux distros. You get a clear date for each distro, AND are told that this version, or that, is an LTS (long term support) version, and a date maybe 5 years from now until which that LTS will be supported. So you know, before downloading, that you can go for the latest, but have to upgrade fairly quickly, or be more cautious and get a fixed LTS date some years off. Those for whom stability and predictability, like support departments, will presumably opt for the LTS.

If you know, prior to downloading (or buying, in Windows case) that support finishes on Aug 21st, 2018, you can't really bitch about it when it does. By not specifying, in advance, exactly when support ends, you set yourself up for moans, whenever you end it, be it 5 years or 15 years.

OK fair enough. But nearly 8 years should, IMO, be long enough as a date to aim for. I can see how if they'd set that date in stone from release there could be no complaints - I guess if there's an EOL date set, people may be less likely to buy it as they might think 'what's the point, I'm going to have to buy a new one in x years' (which they would likely do anyway as they upgraded their hardware but it's a psychological barrier).

[gagaga]

On going maintenance of MS operating systems is managed out of Shanghai iirc - oh, the irony.

[Saracen]

OK fair enough. But nearly 8 years should, IMO, be long enough as a date to aim for. I can see how if they'd set that date in stone from release there could be no complaints - I guess if there's an EOL date set, people may be less likely to buy it as they might think 'what's the point, I'm going to have to buy a new one in x years' (which they would likely do anyway as they upgraded their hardware but it's a psychological barrier).

But then, that balance between the commitment that MS make to support and the cost of it, with too short a period being a disincentive to buy, is a commercial decision MS will have to make a judgement call on. But they can't have it both ways.

[wasabi]

#1 Unlike the U.S, China actually have proof of the U.S cyber spying
#2 Microsoft have let the NSA and other U.S government agencies install back doors in versions of windows
#3 Windows 8 has twice (that i'm aware of) required an update to get future eh updates. I'd imagine large networks would have problems updating all systems in the time frame windows 8 requires - Problem.

Now if microsoft are surprised by China not wanting Win8 on government systems then perhaps it's time for them to collectively remove their fingers from their dark place.

China is not alone with trying to adopt a cheaper OS for government computers, I know that France was trying to use a linux distro, before winXP came to a halt on Government systems. And i'm sure I have read of other countries following suit, i'd have to re-check info about the others, but i'm sure there are a few !

Lots of countries talk the talk about moving to Linux, and IIRC china tried to create their own but it died a death. Gotcha for many poorer countries is they're quite happy with old XP machines and simply don't want to pay for anything, never mind extended paid support, nor the Win8 price. So they leverage security tit-for-tat to try to keep their economy rumbling along on pirated XP machines.

[valhar2000]

This is an intensely moronic course of action, if we assume that the facts of the matter as those being described in this article. It is likely that is much more to this than meets the eye.

On the other hand, the Chinese government in the past has done some very stupid things. Perhaps some of the old guard remain?

[crossy]

Lots of countries talk the talk about moving to Linux, and IIRC china tried to create their own but it died a death. Gotcha for many poorer countries is they're quite happy with old XP machines and simply don't want to pay for anything, never mind extended paid support, nor the Win8 price. So they leverage security tit-for-tat to try to keep their economy rumbling along on pirated XP machines.

You're talking about Red Flag Linux aren't you in that first sentence? From what I've read elsewhere that company wasn't exactly run "sensibly". Point on the XP though - why bother paying for something if you can get it for free.

If the PRC are looking for an alternative then there's always Ubuntu Kylin. Oh, and while I don't think any country has weaned itself off of the Microsoft nipple, there's certainly Microsoft-free zones in France, Germany, Brazil, etc. Actually if I was Canonical, I'd be having a quiet word with the Central Procurement department (or whatever the official title is), as this is surely a fantastic opportunity for them.

http://www.zdnet.com/china-switches-...or-7000026355/ is quite a good article (from February this year). Note that - according to the article - the Chinese were hacked off because the cheap Windows7 editions they could get were discontinued with Windows8. Now that sounds more like a real reason.

[Strawb77]

`Microsoft surprised` ? I`m not.