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Thread: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

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    News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    The move is part of the GMB's campaign against Amazon's pay and conditions.
    Read more.

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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    Oh LOL, people like the GMB I just can't begin to trust on anything like this. This is for instance a quote from their page:

    In the last three tax years for which information is known Amazon has paid only £4.24 million tax on £10.82 billion sales: a tax rate of less than 0.5%.
    So that is just dishonest as you con possibly be. For a start off they are comparing gross sales, ignoring any Value Added Tax, National Insurance, Rates etc. You can't compare gross revenue and ignore something like VAT, that is special dishonesty.

    As a result I don't really believe any of their claims, they've lost any credibility by being down right wrong for their overt agenda.

    The information about wages looks incorrect, a quick google shows £8+ per hour for the Swansea centre.

    But the concern about walking 11 miles, over the course of 10 hours. You are kidding right? A few years back when there was a pedomitor craze, a Dr friend found she walked 7 miles per shift, that's just being in a hospital.

    So this is just political posturing from a company that relies on people having less money in their pocket, so they can fund a political party in a most non democratic manner.
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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    Plus, those lockers are very handy (not that I've noticed any near me), I have used a courier company's lockers to send something once.

    Hopefully Co-op will stand their ground.

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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    The Coop won't care, their employees are paid a similar pittance and the company has hemorrhaged money for a couple of years, so any money paid by amazon is a winner for them.

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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    TheAnimus

    It is even worse than you think. Neither the GMB nor most Lab MPs (yes Margaret Hodge I am referring to you) understand corporation tax.

    1. Corporation tax is paid on profits, the amount of revenue is irrelevant. Amazon alledgedly has notoriously microscoptic profit margins.

    2. Corporation tax in UK is only paid by UK companies or by foreign companies with a permanent establishment in the UK. Amazon, the seller of goods has neither - all those distribution warehouses do not count, that was something laid down by law 30+ years ago to assist car industry.

    3. Corporation tax is not based on where your customers are.

    4. Having a ".co.uk" website does not make you a UK company

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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    Quote Originally Posted by cjs150 View Post
    TheAnimus

    It is even worse than you think. Neither the GMB nor most Lab MPs (yes Margaret Hodge I am referring to you) understand corporation tax.

    1. Corporation tax is paid on profits, the amount of revenue is irrelevant. Amazon alledgedly has notoriously microscoptic profit margins.

    2. Corporation tax in UK is only paid by UK companies or by foreign companies with a permanent establishment in the UK. Amazon, the seller of goods has neither - all those distribution warehouses do not count, that was something laid down by law 30+ years ago to assist car industry.

    3. Corporation tax is not based on where your customers are.

    4. Having a ".co.uk" website does not make you a UK company
    Thank you! Finally, people who understand this concept. But sadly I continue to see relationships made between gross sales and corporation tax and its always to the detriment of the company.

    On a kind of related note Animus, I would not list VAT as an example of Amazon paying some form of tax. VAT has been, and will always be, a tax bourn by the individual consumer. But I agree with your general opinion. Amazon are a very positive entity in the economy, they employ a lot of people and pay those taxes, they operate many sites and pay business rates and council taxes as appropriate. They encourage smaller SME's to get involved with e-commerce in a way that (appears) positive and any of the above benefits it brings with that.

    But the average daily mail reader will just see a small corporation tax ratio and decree it blasphemy.

    Let's just hope he doesn't do that whilst drinking a Starbucks!

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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    Such wonderful deep thinkers here who understand the value of money and the race to the bottom. The question is do they understand sustainable communities, social capital value? Probably not.

    If we allow Amazon to flourish with their tax breaks then it creates an unfair playing field for the bricks and mortar retail businesses. Amazon, with their tax breaks, are able to invest more in their infrastructure and thus in a position to undermine their competitors and putting them out of business.

    The consequences are loss of business rates, higher unemployment in your local area, and a run down high street which is more likely to attract anti-social behaviour (broken windows effect). Eventually, the tax payer would have to spend billions in correcting damage caused by Amazon.

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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_gun View Post
    Such wonderful deep thinkers here who understand the value of money and the race to the bottom. The question is do they understand sustainable communities, social capital value? Probably not.

    If we allow Amazon to flourish with their tax breaks then it creates an unfair playing field for the bricks and mortar retail businesses. Amazon, with their tax breaks, are able to invest more in their infrastructure and thus in a position to undermine their competitors and putting them out of business.

    The consequences are loss of business rates, higher unemployment in your local area, and a run down high street which is more likely to attract anti-social behaviour (broken windows effect). Eventually, the tax payer would have to spend billions in correcting damage caused by Amazon.
    National unemployment is down in general (or so sky news informs me) and my high street (Newcastle) is flourishing. Lots of investment and boutique shops opening. Grainger market is a booming trade space and is full of interest and unique and small shops. I do not doubt your points but I struggle to see them in a spot that I'd imagine would show them off ( ie the northeast)

    But let's run with your concepts. We change the rules (as we do annually) but this time we crack down companies who have any form of business in this country. Any and all profits generated in the UK are subject to corp tax at the appropriate rate.

    For starters, you have just alienated potential small foreign business from branching into the UK because of additional admin duties and costs. Potentially losing some smaller employers.

    Then you can break medium and large into two categories. The ones who will 'bite the bullet' and continue one with there operations. But with a large tax bill to pay now you can imagine there will be cost saving exercises. I'd imagine labour costs are item number one. So with that in mind would Amazon take on 15,000 temp Christmas staff ? Or 12,000 to reflect the built tax costing?

    Then you have the other side which would just leave the UK and operate in a EU country. We have lost all benefit then. No employment, no business rates, no council taxes.

    That's my take on it anyway. Leave the corp tax rules as they stand. Enjoy in the huge boost in employment and personal spending power that brings. Any other opinions ?

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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    The competitors to Amazon, are not being influenced by a tax on Profits.

    http://www.businessweek.com/articles...ales-no-profit

    Has a simple summary of their business model, efficiency is the goal, their plan is to be dominant by not having high profit margins. For example Apple struggled in the PC biz back a couple of decades because they had huge, huge margins, so when the rise of the 100% IBM Compatibles, which had incredibly low profit margins arrived Apple struggled, they struggled badly.

    For instance Amazon has entered the Payment Service Provider game in the US now, currently, paying 2.5 or 2.7% is considered a great deal for small businesses, Stripe have built themselves on this concept. But in comes Amazon, razor thin. 1.5% for introduction, then 2.0% thereafter. It's very, very hard for Stripe or similar to get there. They've raised money, promised investors on getting a better return. Stripe will have to evolve or it will simply die.

    This is why it's such a laugh when you say Amazon flourishing with tax breaks, they aren't getting any, because they make very little money, which they are heavily investing back into their company.

    The whole run down high-street nonsense argument, I think back to the high streets before supermarkets were around, they were boring places. The nearest area to me that had a woolworths has gotten a fair bit better since they closed down.

    Another thing is people can afford now to buy a lot more from Amazon, their money goes further, their quality of life improves, it helps control the effects of inflation, Amazon charge less because they are efficient. If you look at places where they fight against efficiency, they aren't normally nice places to live, unless you are rich obviously.

    It's sort of like shopping at Waitrose, I often do so out of many reasons, one of them being that the staff are definitely a cut above the competition, helpful, polite and don't leave you questioning how their mother figured out which orifice to use. But I sure as hell would not shop there if I had less money.
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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    Those lockers are really good for customers though. Are the GMB are just annoyed at the Co-op cooperating(no pun intended) with Amazon? Probably.. It's an odd thing to take issue with. It's good that different business models can work together in my opinion.

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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    Good for customers and great for bringing them in to the store. I used one at a local news agent, I say local, it's about 600m, which in London means I've skipped past 4 others by this point, so I don't normally frequent there, but in picking up my amazon order I did, and I think I ended up impulse buying some water.
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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Good for customers and great for bringing them in to the store. I used one at a local news agent, I say local, it's about 600m, which in London means I've skipped past 4 others by this point, so I don't normally frequent there, but in picking up my amazon order I did, and I think I ended up impulse buying some water.
    Didn't Staples removed Amazon lockers from their stores as they saw no benefits at all?

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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    They removed them from the Staples in the US and Radioshack too. This makes sense, as they are direct competitors, who in my experiance offer nothing better than amazon do, expect maybe hands on trails of stuff.

    I mean take Dixons Group in the UK, customer service? Awful, sales staff knowledge? Nill. Imagine them putting an amazon locker in their store, say you bought a new computer and realise you need a USB cable, you'd take one look on the shelf, laugh at £20 and think, I'll wait till tomorrow and order one from Amazon...

    The use of the lockers in their stores was odd to many commentators at the time. The fact is the program is still going strong with other partners, partners that amazon doesn't directly compete against.
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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    Amazon pay bugger all corporation tax because they make bugger all profit. It's not some scam - they just run on razor thin margins and reinvest most of what they do make in their business. A result of this reinvestment is that they can provide what their customers want for less money. That money that's saved by consumers gets spent elsewhere.
    If they made loads of profit (and therefore paid loads more corporation tax) the trade unionists would not doubt be complaining about their billions in profit.
    If you work for Amazon and think their pay and conditions are bad, find another job. If you can't find another job it's either because you live in an area where there's not enough work and perhaps Amazon are doing your community a favour by existing there. If you don't like it, move elsewhere where there is more better paid work.
    If there is better paid work near where you live but you can't find better pay and conditions, look in the mirror. Amazon aren't your problem.
    I have no connection to Amazon at all but this constant, unrelenting capitalism bashing by lefties who enjoy their current living standards precisely because we have enjoyed a mostly capitalist economy since long before they were born is getting on my wick.
    P.S. this current bonus abuse by members of zombie banks has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with government-imcompeencism.
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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    Who are these GMB clowns and how can I boycott them ?
    I'm not surprised that Amazon refuses to acknowledge them why should they, they're just trying to make a quick buck by promising staff everest for joining their cause and all they end up doing is causing disruption

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    Re: News - Union pressures Co-op to remove all Amazon lockers

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    They removed them from the Staples in the US and Radioshack too. This makes sense, as they are direct competitors, who in my experiance offer nothing better than amazon do, expect maybe hands on trails of stuff.

    I mean take Dixons Group in the UK, customer service? Awful, sales staff knowledge? Nill. Imagine them putting an amazon locker in their store, say you bought a new computer and realise you need a USB cable, you'd take one look on the shelf, laugh at £20 and think, I'll wait till tomorrow and order one from Amazon...

    The use of the lockers in their stores was odd to many commentators at the time. The fact is the program is still going strong with other partners, partners that amazon doesn't directly compete against.
    Staples also removed Amazon lockers from their UK branches as well. Seems your google search failed you on this occasion!

    Anyway, I doubt if the Co-op has any hard evidence to prove that all Amazon locker customers would want to spend money in their stores. I know I wouldn't. Buying the odd can of cola or bottled water is hardly a sustainable business case. If Co-op had any business acumen then they could use the locker floor space to offer a wider range of food and goods for their regular customers.

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