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Thread: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

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    3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    The 'Farandole' test uses 7.5 times more GPU draw calls than DX11 can handle.
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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    To be release in 2016?

    Crikey, anything could happen between now and then......Don't think I'll hold off on any decisions about DX vs mantle!
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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    Sorry, as you can see in the roadmap, it looks like mid-2015
    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    To be release in 2016?

    Crikey, anything could happen between now and then......Don't think I'll hold off on any decisions about DX vs mantle!

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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    It's interesting to see these tests concerning draw calls in the wake of the Ubisoft Assassin's Creed: Unity problems. During its squirming, Ubisoft said that the graphics performance of the game was being "adversely affected by certain AMD CPU and GPU configurations". However other sources thought the nub of the problem was the game issuing "tens of thousands of draw calls -- up to 50,000 and beyond," causing a juddery experience, even on the best kitted out PCs running DirectX 11. So Ubi could have created a perfectly smooth gaming experience using the currently available AMD Mantle API...
    It's nothing to do with Mantle, DX12, or any other API that you want to throw in there.

    Ubi have simply failed to make the game to the standards required to run well on current systems. Even when it does run, it's not just framerate - it's very buggy.

    You make a game to the requirements of today. If systems can't handle it, you scale it back. Serious texture issues and such are largely AMD based (and are not present on Nvidia hardware)....but this isn't the fault of AMD, this is firmly the issue of Ubisoft. They failed to do QA on AMD hardware - it's simply impossible these issues could have been missed.

    To claim they could have created a "perfectly smooth gaming experience" by using a different API (Mantle or anything else) is madness. The issue is bad coding and QA. It's nothing to do with the API used. The game should be perfectly playable on AMD and Nvidia hardware using DX, full stop. They failed at it. Another API doesn't solve these issues, it only gives them more headroom to make the same mistakes again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    snip

    To claim they could have created a "perfectly smooth gaming experience" by using a different API (Mantle or anything else) is madness. The issue is bad coding and QA. It's nothing to do with the API used. The game should be perfectly playable on AMD and Nvidia hardware using DX, full stop. They failed at it. Another API doesn't solve these issues, it only gives them more headroom to make the same mistakes again.
    I was just 'pondering' various sources of info rather than claiming it was the truth - I just thought it was interesting as Ubi blamed AMD...

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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    Quote Originally Posted by mtyson View Post
    I just thought it was interesting as Ubi blamed AMD...
    Where?

    All I can find is the following statement:

    We are aware that the graphics performance of Assassin’s Creed Unity on PC may be adversely affected by certain AMD CPU and GPU configurations. This should not affect the vast majority of PC players, but rest assured that AMD and Ubisoft are continuing to work together closely to resolve the issue, and will provide more information as soon as it is available.
    That doesn't sound like they are blaming AMD to me, but they are acknowledging that there are issues on those configurations. Working with AMD to solve them isn't pinning blame.

    Is there a different statement that assigns blame?
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    Funny how AC issues excessive numbers of draw calls, and nVidia cards happen to excel in this area with command lists.

    Reminds me of when nVidia cards had beefy tessellation engines and suddenly Crysis 2 was drawing tessellating water underneath other scenery where it would never be seen.

    It's bad from Ubi. It's bad from nVidia if they are pushing devs to go in these direction, because ultimately the PC gaming market as a whole suffers.

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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests


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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    Quote Originally Posted by mtyson View Post
    This is why I keep getting annoyed with some of the more recent HEXUS articles. You're jumping on the bandwagon of the hyperbole that other websites have published.

    The sites you link all post, or quote the same thing as I've stated above: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...reed-Unity?%20

    We are aware that the graphics performance of Assassin’s Creed Unity on PC may be adversely affected by certain AMD CPU and GPU configurations. This should not affect the vast majority of PC players, but rest assured that AMD and Ubisoft are continuing to work together closely to resolve the issue, and will provide more information as soon as it is available.
    The statement is very clear and concise. There are issues on the PC version of the game with certain AMD setups. They are aware of this and are working AMD to solve the issues.

    Where it the blame being assigned? Quote it. Link the page.

    "Ubisoft blames AMD" is literally click bait. This isn't Facebook. Either quote where Ubisoft specifically blames AMD, or stop this Daily Mail like editorial of claims. HEXUS is better than this.
    Last edited by Agent; 01-12-2014 at 02:36 PM. Reason: typos
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    In my first story about Assassin's Creed: Unity bugs and problems all my PC gaming reports sources used Nvidia hardware. So I was a bit shocked with the Ubisoft awareness about AMD issues statement that came a day or two later.
    Basically it sounded like blame to me, some kind of smoke. That's what I thought.
    Today I was interested about the draw calls capacity of DX12 and Mantle - and this new 3DMark benchmark. I had read in several places about the laggiest bits of AC:U being cut scenes with tens of thousands of such calls. Thus DX12 or Mantle could - in theory - have prevented a lot of the AC:U slowdowns. Please don't say Daily Mail again.

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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    Quote Originally Posted by mtyson View Post
    In my first story about Assassin's Creed: Unity bugs and problems all my PC gaming reports sources used Nvidia hardware. So I was a bit shocked with the Ubisoft awareness about AMD issues statement that came a day or two later.
    Basically it sounded like blame to me, some kind of smoke. That's what I thought.
    Today I was interested about the draw calls capacity of DX12 and Mantle - and this new 3DMark benchmark. I had read in several places about the laggiest bits of AC:U being cut scenes with tens of thousands of such calls. Thus DX12 or Mantle could - in theory - have prevented a lot of the AC:U slowdowns..
    It doesn't matter if the issues reported were on Nvidia, AMD or 3DFX, or who any of those companies are working with. Being "shocked" that they said they were working with a major GPU manufacturer to solve problems, doesn't equate to assigning blame to them. They are probably asking for their help with certain issues. This isnt' a new thing in the games industry. AMD and Nvidia both have support channels set up for this. Developers can access it easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtyson View Post
    Please don't say Daily Mail again.
    Then don't link Google searches that are nothing more than clickbait articles to try and backup your points . It was a very simple request: Provide evidence of the claim Ubi have blamed AMD, yet you only provided a Google link.

    Anyway, this isn't anything personal, it's just a real hate of mine right now in publishing. The assigning of blame to AMD didn't happen, unless someone can point to a statement where this is clear. The statement Ubisoft released has no blame at all. Yet a crappy, unnamed news site stated this, and tens of others copied this claim. Don't fall for it
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Being "shocked" that they said they were working with a major GPU manufacturer to solve problems, doesn't equate to assigning blame to them.
    I think the key point here is that they only mentioned AMD regardless of the fact that the same problems were experienced on Nvidia GPUs and Intel processors.

    Had they simply said they were working with their partners to resolve performance issues that would be fair enough but they only explicitly mentioned only one manufacturer for both CPUs and GPUs.

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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    Erm, another one for the conspiracy theorists interested in the AC:U screw-ups, remember NVIDIA GameWorks To Enhance Assassin’s Creed Unity, Far Cry 4, The Crew & Tom Clancy’s The Division which said:
    NVIDIA and Ubisoft today announced an extension to our technical partnership, which will result in Assassin’s Creed Unity, Far Cry 4, The Crew, and Tom Clancy’s The Division being enhanced with the latest NVIDIA GameWorks technologies, like NVIDIA PhysX, NVIDIA HBAO+ Ambient Occlusion, and NVIDIA TXAA Anti-Aliasing.
    So, with tinfoil hat firmly on head I've got to wonder if in "enhancing" for NVidia, they managed to completely hump the Red Team users, especially given kalniel's comment above
    Funny how AC issues excessive numbers of draw calls, and nVidia cards happen to excel in this area with command lists.
    The discussion is of particular interest to me since I'm an AMD+AMD user and one who quite likes the whole AC series (apart from that god-awful US-based travesty). And I'm refusing to buy AC:U until they get that whole sci-fi/horror movie video glitches sorted out. And yes, I'm well aware that all AC's to date have had "issues", like Ezio being able to walk through walls or get stuck in gondolas.

    Getting back to the 3DMark info, I'm pretty happy to hear that DX12 and Mantle are both going to be included. What I'd like to be able to do is b'mark DX11 against Mantle on my kit and see whether the Mantle-hype is justified (in my particular case) or just marketing fluff.

    Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...

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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    Quote Originally Posted by Slivver View Post
    I think the key point here is that they only mentioned AMD regardless of the fact that the same problems were experienced on Nvidia GPUs and Intel processors.

    Had they simply said they were working with their partners to resolve performance issues that would be fair enough but they only explicitly mentioned only one manufacturer for both CPUs and GPUs.
    They key point here is that Ubisoft did not blame AMD, no matter how much people want to spin it otherwise.

    Maybe they are not working with Nvidia because they know how to fix those bugs? Maybe they needed to seek assistance for issues they couldn't solve with AMD hardware because of their lack of knowledge? Maybe they specifically stated AMD because AMD devices have been hit the hardest? (again, entirely Ubisofts fault).. Maybe the person who posted on the forum had just got off the phone with AMD and wanted to let people know they're working on issues?

    Ubisofts statement is literally a throw away one. They're working with a popular partner to help solve the issues, yet the internet feels the need to explode at such a simple statement.

    I could continue guessing the reasons why they named AMD, but none of them relate to the simple point that Ubisoft didn't blame them. It just didn't happen.


    I'm working working with a work colleague right now to get a project back on track thats fallen behind schedule. Does this mean I'm assigning blame to him? No.

    There are so many other things that actually need to be brought to light in the games industry, yet people take the smallest of statements like "We're working with X partner" and translate them into some utter BS for a news article to drive traffic to their site. And people are falling for it while much more important issues, like how the heck can a game like this ship in such a mess, are put aside.

    This isn't news. There isn't anything to report on a multimillion pound games company working with a partner to solve issues. It's cheap shots to get ad revenue. This entire 'Ubi blames AMD' situation doesn't exist. It's not a thing. There is no 'key point'....because what's being reported never happened.

    "Company X is working with company Y to solve problems". There is no blame attribution.

    I'm going to have an aneurysm if review sites continue this nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    Did they not declare that (someone or something) is responsible for a fault ?
    From reading their statement it sure does look like they declared that AMD CPU and GPU configurations are responsible for the problems.

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    Re: 3DMark to be updated with DirectX 12 vs Mantle tests

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Did they not declare that (someone or something) is responsible for a fault ?
    No. They simply said they were working with AMD to try and resolve issues.
    Last edited by Agent; 01-12-2014 at 07:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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