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Thread: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

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    Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    Previously all those that had experienced play online were refused refunds.
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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    Previously all those that had experienced play online were refused refunds.
    Not a popular idea, but it makes some sense in this respect - You paid to have a copy of the game, in whatever dev state is was at the time. You got what you paid for, it is now technically used and not liable for a refund. Reasonably well in-keeping with consumer law...

    Probably not a good play in terms of company image and having to issue a few thousand refunds would only further harm opinions of the game post-release. By denying refunds at this stage, I daresay a lot of people would shrug and give it a go anyways, possibly finding that it was still playable and worth keeping... this'd lessen the Refund Quota, perhaps to a few hundred and look better on the books... but then, forcing people to either wait for refunds, or forcing them to see what the game is like first before considering their case is also a bit draconian.

    Interestingly, this kinda mirrors the law in-game:
    "Ooh look, salvage... What? Stolen cargo and a fine? No, I found it, honest! OK then, I'll get rid of it... What? Littering fine? OK, I'll destroy it... What? Fined for firing in the No Fire zone??!! Stuff you, I'm never coming here again... WHAT??!! Unpaid fines now put a bounty on my head??!!"

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    Overall I am really glad I gave this one a miss.

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    The fact that they promised a single-player game, and then proceeded to make a multiplayer game only, shows just how much they screwed the backers

    Definately a company i'll try to avoid in the future, if this is to be their level of customer service.

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    Still better than rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishing the money on cars, coke and hookers like many kickstarters do.

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    M0nkeyb0Y (01-12-2014)

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    See where Braben thinking is :

    This game is designed to be a massive multi player experience. Not sure why people really would want a single player option for a game like this.

    The best online games have limited or pointless single player games - the ratio of my time spent playing battlefield 4 online compared to the single player campaign is like 10000:1.

    Rather he spent the time and resources making a rich online game......

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    Quote Originally Posted by eviling View Post
    The fact that they promised a single-player game, and then proceeded to make a multiplayer game only, shows just how much they screwed the backers

    Definately a company i'll try to avoid in the future, if this is to be their level of customer service.
    I second your comment, however quite a few of Hexus commentators have forgotten consumers have rights - some very powerful ones - which are the reason for the refunds not philanthropy.

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    Quote Originally Posted by abaxas View Post
    Still better than rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishing the money on cars, coke and hookers like many kickstarters do.
    How many?

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewster0101 View Post
    See where Braben thinking is :

    This game is designed to be a massive multi player experience. Not sure why people really would want a single player option for a game like this.

    The best online games have limited or pointless single player games - the ratio of my time spent playing battlefield 4 online compared to the single player campaign is like 10000:1.

    Rather he spent the time and resources making a rich online game......
    Or, lets promise to make a sequel to what was one of the best single player games of all times (in age before the internet even really existed) and which theres a demonstrated demand for a new version of (see X franchise etc). Then lets get a load of people to back us to make it, then decide the business model needs microtransactions so we're going to make it into eve online.

    Whatever is said about 'evolving' universes being 'better' (sometimes they are, if the game suits it) there was a huge number of people (me included, but I didn't either back or buy it) who were hoping for a decent story driven single player campaign that you could either come out of the end of into an MMO, or just run on its own two feet, with the universe evolving at your pace, rather than whatever you're doing being influenced by other actors whilst you're out of the game. Think you've found a great sector for a particular trade route, then go on holiday for a week? Too late, its already been farmed to hell. I really hope they get it to work, but I think the reason people are so pissed is they wanted elite, and it appears they're being given eve online/wow in space.

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abaxas View Post
    Still better than rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishing the money on cars, coke and hookers like many kickstarters do.
    How many?
    I guess none, it is one of those off the cuff comments without any evidence which allows superpowers to invade.

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    Quote Originally Posted by eviling View Post
    The fact that they promised a single-player game, and then proceeded to make a multiplayer game only, shows just how much they screwed the backers
    They didn't make a multi-player only game - there will still be a single-player mode, just not an *off-line* single-player mode.

    I suppose that's why they initially refused refunds for people who had already played it on-line.

    Still, foot-in-mouth time for Mr Braben.

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    Unhappy Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelviticus View Post
    They didn't make a multi-player only game - there will still be a single-player mode, just not an *off-line* single-player mode.

    I suppose that's why they initially refused refunds for people who had already played it on-line.

    Still, foot-in-mouth time for Mr Braben.
    You have missed the articles, there will be no single player mode period.

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    You have to give them some credit - at least they are listening to their community which is commendable IMHO.

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    Quote Originally Posted by KendrickDM View Post
    You have missed the articles, there will be no single player mode period.
    As I understood it, there is a single-player mode, where you don't interact with other 'real' players, but set in an evolving galaxy which does evolve according to the actions of other 'real' players.

    So there's sort-of a single player mode, but one that does require light online connectivity.

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    As I understood it, there is a single-player mode, where you don't interact with other 'real' players, but set in an evolving galaxy which does evolve according to the actions of other 'real' players.

    So there's sort-of a single player mode, but one that does require light online connectivity.

    Which is exactly the case. It seems some people are reading a little too much between the lines in their outrage.

    Quoting directly from the newsletter

    Elite: Dangerous Offline Mode - Q&A
    From David Braben:

    Each of the “Elite” games pushed the boundaries of the technology available. With Elite: Dangerous a major new feature is playing online, and we are pushing that hard now. Offline support was not one of our original aims, though we did believe we could support it at the start of the project. We do a great deal of processing in the cloud, and this benefits everyone playing. We had considered that an online connection is a reasonable pre-requisite for a game delivered online. I am really sorry this has upset people, but we have a strong, consistent vision that we do not want to compromise.

    Below we have collected common questions from backers and the press and our answers so we can be clear about the situation.

    Can I still play in single player mode?
    Yes. Some people have thought that dropping 100% offline play means there wouldn’t be a single-player mode - to be clear, the single-player game is already there, but it requires a low bandwidth online connection for the reasons we explained.
    I’ve even played on a laptop using a tethered connection on the train.

    When was the offline mode dropped?
    The decision was made recently, and was not made lightly as we have been looking for ways to satisfy everyone. We announced shortly after we concluded that it wasn’t possible to create an offline mode without unacceptably compromising the game.

    Offline-only support was a requested feature during the Kickstarter – why was it dropped?
    Back during the Kickstarter, we were clear about the vision, to make a phenomenal new sequel to Elite in an online world, which we believe we are about to deliver. At the time we believed we could also offer a good single player experience, and base an acceptable offline-only experience off that. As development has progressed, it has become clear that this last assumption is not the case.

    Why wait so long to announce this?
    In retrospect we should have shared the fact that we were struggling with this aspect with the community, but we were still trying to find a solution. As features were implemented, for the best results we chose to prioritise delivery of the online single and multiplayer experiences, with a view to providing the offline version later in development. We had to make a decision for the good of the game, and that is what we did.

    What would you lose in offline mode?
    We have developed a multi-player game with an unfolding story involving the players, and groups collaborating with specific objectives and taking account of all player’s behaviour. This is what the game is about. Without this it would not be the rich gaming experience that we will deliver, and would be a great disappointment to all players.

    Any offline experience would be fundamentally empty. We could write a separate mission system to allow a limited series of fixed missions, but that would still not be a compelling game, and is just the first step in the mountain of work that would be required.

    Do you now consider Elite: Dangerous to be an MMO?
    Technically, it has always been. There are already over 100,000 people playing in the same world. We believe that always-online entertainment is already a reality for the majority. We are delivering a truly huge game using the best technology and designed to stand the test of time, played for many years to come and still be relevant.

    What do you say to people who backed Elite with an offline experience in mind?
    Many of the conversations we have had during development focussed on backers wanting to play the game without the downside of online – griefing especially – ie a single player experience. We considered this to be the main issue and focussed on making sure we had a great single player offering. We have also ensured that the solo play mode has a minimal network requirement(about 10 kbps).

    Are you confident the servers will be stable come launch day?
    Yes, as confident as we can be, because we have been testing our servers throughout the development process, and continue to do so. Our servers are the same ones that Amazon uses, and can (and have) scaled up quickly to deal with demand when needed.

    What is Frontier's plan for when the servers shut down?
    We do not plan to shut the servers down, but understand it is a reasonable question. We are at the beginning of the game not the end and are focused on creating a game that we hope will be played for many years in the future. We do plan to take regular archives of the game and the servers, to preserve the game for the future.

    Could the server code be released publicly some day when the servers are shut down?
    Yes. This is something we would do if for whatever reason we cannot keep the game going.

    Will offline mode ever be implemented? Why not create a second "offline galaxy" with different secrets than the online one?
    It is not out of the question we will create a cut-down game that is offline only, but this is not currently in our plan. It would still be a big undertaking to do well.

    Will you give people refunds?
    We have started responding to requests where there is a clear outcome:
    - Those who have pre-ordered an Elite: Dangerous release version from our online store and have therefore not yet played the game are eligible for a refund.
    - Those who have already been playing the game online in the Alpha and/or Beta phases, regardless of whether they backed the project via Kickstarter or purchased access to Alpha and/or Beta through our online store, are not eligible for a refund.

    We want to make sure we treat each person's situation with the thoroughness it deserves, and have contacted each of them to ask that they bear with us over the next few working days if their circumstances do not fit either criteria above as we look into individual requests.

    Is offline mode an impossible problem, or just unfeasible?
    It is a creative decision, not wanting to produce an empty game. It is technically possible, but it would be a largely separate game development.

    Why not delay the decisions and put extra resources on this after the release?
    We will review the decision after release, but our priority is moving the game forwards for the great majority of players, and are wary of producing a sub-standard game.

    Was this because offline players are less likely to get involved in microtransactions? Is this just about the money?
    No. We have been clear and consistent. This is about the game experience. I have always been against ‘pay to win’ – in a game like Elite: Dangerous there are a great many opportunities we could have taken already that would have amounted to ‘pay to win’ but we have chosen not to.

    This whole issue comes down to what the vision is of the game we are making, and whether people trust us to make the right decisions. We made this decision with heavy hearts but for the right reasons.
    Source for the newsletter: http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=...=6b99a1d038&e=

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    Re: Elite: Dangerous refunds now being judged case-by-case

    but what about those who bought the game for the rich off line single player WITH an option for Multiplayer all in one price, they should at least get some of their money back
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