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Thread: Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

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    Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

    First titles are expected to be on the market before the end of 2015.
    Read more.

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    Re: Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

    Finally 100GB optical discs will come out for consumer applications. I wasn't expecting it to be 33GB per layer though, I thought it would be quad-layer 25GB, like current BluRay.

    HEVC makes sense to keep the bitrate lower than it would be with H.264.

    I hope that 4K BluRay movies will include a standard BluRay copy as well, or come in a box that isn't blue so consumers can easily tell they're not compatible.

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    Re: Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

    Wondering if this means we will see a bitrate drop for those films in 1080p running to near Blu-ray disc capacity just now already!

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    Re: Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

    Funnily enough I was only wondering about this last night, wondering what would be BD's 'successor' so to speak. Going back a few years, some places were expecting the likes of HVD to be appearing soon, but nothing seems to have happened with that recently. Then again, we're probably still some way off realistically needing ~1TB optical media for video consumption. 100GB would seem more than enough for the next few years given HEVC.

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    Re: Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

    Quote Originally Posted by Defiant View Post
    Wondering if this means we will see a bitrate drop for those films in 1080p running to near Blu-ray disc capacity just now already!
    Just remember that the existing bluray standard is ancient, so while a h.264 bluray might run up to 50GB, a h.264 copy of the film with all the bells and whistles in use on the encoding side can result in a 10-20GB copy of the same film with no appreciable loss of detail. H.265 is basically just H.264 with all those bells and whistles added, plus some extras. It is a very real possibility to get those same movies in UHD at 80GB or so.

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    Re: Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

    I'm not sure how a new standard would imply a bitrate drop?

    Anyway yeah you have to remember that to preserve compatibility, you can't really add compression features which demand more of the decoding hardware. More recent releases/levels of h264 allow greater compression than the original BD standard (1/5 the size is definitely pushing it though). More modern encoders also allow greater compression efficiency without adding a lot of demand to the decoding, e.g. psychovisual enhancements which aim to preserve perceptual quality rather than mathematical similarity, but these tend to apply more at lower bitrates. The advantage of something like BD is you can throw so much bitrate at it that you don't really need to worry about it.

    There's more to HEVC than h264 with a few bits added though. Sure it borrows some techniques from h264, and some tricks learned in later implementations, but it's an entirely new codec. h264 itself similarly borrowed techniques from codecs before it like MPEG2, DivX, etc.

    It's also important to remember that bitrate requirements don't necessarily scale linearly with resolution, so e.g. only in worst-case are you likely to need anything approaching 4x the bitrate of 1080p for 4k, and even then, psy enhancements mean you don't necessarily need that much to preserve perceptual quality anyway. However with HEVC and larger capacity, again that's something which probably isn't a big concern.

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    Re: Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

    Oh well they must think its not an issue then if they are going to use 100GB discs, just thinking the now about those poor broadband lines and their associated download caps lol

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    Re: Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

    After all this time they have only managed to squeeze an extra 30% per layer?

    Will 100GB be enough to get 4k 60Hz stereoscopic at the current bitrate? Even with the new codecs, I doubt it.
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    Re: Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

    Quote Originally Posted by Defiant View Post
    Oh well they must think its not an issue then if they are going to use 100GB discs, just thinking the now about those poor broadband lines and their associated download caps lol
    Streaming services don't use full BD bitrate, or anywhere close to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    After all this time they have only managed to squeeze an extra 30% per layer?

    Will 100GB be enough to get 4k 60Hz stereoscopic at the current bitrate? Even with the new codecs, I doubt it.
    It's not that unlikely really - HEVC includes extensions for things like stereoscopic encoding - for instance there tend to be a lot of simalarities between images presented to each eye, so a lot of redundancy allowing better compression if this fact is taken advantage of.

    Also, increasing framerate, like resolution, doesn't lead to a linear increase in bitrate. When each frame is displayed for a fraction of the time, it needn't contain as much entropy as when a lower framerate is used for a few reasons including; perceptually, the detail is less necessary because it's visible for a shorter time, and because the images are likely to be more similar to their neighbours at higher framerates, again more compression can be achieved.

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    Re: Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

    I'm relieved that i wont be forced to change bd writer.

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    Re: Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

    awesome news from Pana. just waiting for the actual medium to come out to the public. looking forward to replace my visual equipment.

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    Re: Ultra HD Blu-Ray specs unveiled with 4K, HDR support

    Quote Originally Posted by sykobee View Post
    Finally 100GB optical discs will come out for consumer applications. I wasn't expecting it to be 33GB per layer though, I thought it would be quad-layer 25GB, like current BluRay.

    HEVC makes sense to keep the bitrate lower than it would be with H.264.

    I hope that 4K BluRay movies will include a standard BluRay copy as well, or come in a box that isn't blue so consumers can easily tell they're not compatible.

    33GB a layer was what the triple and quad layer BD-XL discs used so it sounds like this is just an evolved form of that.

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