Reviews - GOG refund policy: "Hitting 'Buy' doesn't waive your rights"

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Originally Posted by Tabbykatze

Tbh, I actually don't have any problem with Steam's refund policy on games. Remember when you used to go to a shop to buy a PC game? You remember you were able to refund it back then as long as it was still wrapped in cellophane? But if you tore off the cellophane, you were stuffed. That game was now yours, permanently.

If you really really hated the game or it was a crock of toss and you want a refund, you'd have to go to the company that made the game not the distributor. A lot of hoo-ha about a pretty standard agreement between buyer and seller.

GOGs refund policy is purely publicity and it can really bite them in the arse if it's abused.

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I disagree with that Tabby. If i bought a packet of biscuits and couldnt eat them due to some defect in the biscuits (mould, stale, made of concrete..etc) or I went to see a movie and couldnt watch it due to a big tear in the screen or in fact bought any product that was supposed to be of a certain standard and wasnt, I would expect a refund.

I reckon gamers have had it hard for years. We have to buy a games based on reviews from magazines we have to purchase, or take risks with unknown factors. If a game is unplayable or not up to the standard claimed by adverts on on the packaging then I reckon we should have a certain time to claim money back.

Lets say Bethesda make the next Fallout, they claim its a game of epic proportions covering a vast swathe of land and several hundred years of gameplay. I buy the game, finish it in a couple of days (highly unlikely I know). I would feel pretty cheated and would want a refund. I have bought several games over the years that were subpar in terms of gameplay and have had no recourse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tabbykatze

Tbh, I actually don't have any problem with Steam's refund policy on games. Remember when you used to go to a shop to buy a PC game? You remember you were able to refund it back then as long as it was still wrapped in cellophane? But if you tore off the cellophane, you were stuffed. That game was now yours, permanently.

If you really really hated the game or it was a crock of toss and you want a refund, you'd have to go to the company that made the game not the distributor. A lot of hoo-ha about a pretty standard agreement between buyer and seller.

GOGs refund policy is purely publicity and it can really bite them in the arse if it's abused.

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At least you used to have the option of Ebaying the physical media & selling it to someone else if you didn't like the game...

It's a difficult situation. If people can get refunds after playing the game, then people will just complete games and ask for a refund, which = free games via the Steam service. But, maybe you should be able to play through a certain amount of the game, or for a certain amount of time and still be able to get a refund if it's broken.

It's also very difficult with pc games to determine what's broken. Some people complain like hell, when really, it could just be their setup that's the problem!

Maybe broken game refunds should be done through the publisher. I'm not really sure of the best way to deal with this. But you have to understand it from Steam's perspective as a business when figuring it out.

Oh im talking about way before Ebay, theres lots of people out there were suckered into buying Daikatana :)

Trying to get a refund out of Steam is like trying to get international companies to pay the right tax. Take Deep Black Reloaded for example, I bought this game because it looked quite good and it was on sale at the time. I have never actually been able to play it because it is fundamentally broken, yet Steam still sells it, and they refused to refund me. E-mails to the developers went unanswered. Apparently there are some people who have got it working through a workaround but why should I have to go messing about with things to get a game working that should just work.

What I would like to see is a system where you can install and play the game for maybe an hour or two. This would ensure that you can get the game working, although I know it won't guarantee there won't be bugs etc. I'm sure this would be quite easy for Steam as they can track gameplay time and have the ability to remove games from your account. This way you can either decide to keep the game or not.

Is the Ukraine price an 'exploit' last time I checked Ukraine was in the EU, and EU citizens are quite within their rights to buy a product or service from anywhere in the EU, no?

I may be wrong but I don't think they can actually enforce that you buy from the UK.

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Originally Posted by Dareos

I disagree with that Tabby. If i bought a packet of biscuits and couldnt eat them due to some defect in the biscuits (mould, stale, made of concrete..etc) or I went to see a movie and couldnt watch it due to a big tear in the screen or in fact bought any product that was supposed to be of a certain standard and wasnt, I would expect a refund.

I reckon gamers have had it hard for years. We have to buy a games based on reviews from magazines we have to purchase, or take risks with unknown factors. If a game is unplayable or not up to the standard claimed by adverts on on the packaging then I reckon we should have a certain time to claim money back.

Lets say Bethesda make the next Fallout, they claim its a game of epic proportions covering a vast swathe of land and several hundred years of gameplay. I buy the game, finish it in a couple of days (highly unlikely I know). I would feel pretty cheated and would want a refund. I have bought several games over the years that were subpar in terms of gameplay and have had no recourse.

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At the Fallout comment: But would that be Steam's (for example) who are simply a digital distributor's responsibility or would it be Bethesda's?

At the Biscuit's Analogy: Good analogy but it is fundamentally flawed. In the tangible world of physical goods it's quite easy to get a refund because of the right there in front of you and the distributors face reasoning. The distributor can happily temporarily recoup your loss and they can recoup the loss of profit from the supplier who in turn the manufacturer who in some cases, the designers if it goes that deep. The digital world is the same yet it is not due to the vast plethora of variables. A game/piece of software working on one system but not another? Who's fault is that, the buyer and their system, Steam or the creator? The answer to that is that it's dependent on the fault and whether it lies within the game or with the system. How do you prove this? With physical goods it's easy, you can go to the distributor and go "These cookies are not made of luscious chocolate biscuit but concrete" and when they argue, you can throw them at them and can feel the massive weight difference and the fact they don't break on the arrogant retailer's forehead (because you can clearly see they're concrete, why is the retailer arguing??).

I used to work in Electronics Retail and a customer would buy this product based on it's reviews saying it's amazeballs, they get it and they're unsatisfied with it because it doesn't do what they wanted it to do. Sorry sir you can't upscale Composite to HDMI even if you buy these three separate products and you've broken their seal and they're now used. I might offer a trade and at a stretch, credit. But if the customer buys something based on a review and not it's function then what's the scoop?

It's not Steam's fault that a game they distribute doesn't work. Neither would it be GOGs if they distribute a broken game. Remember the fateful event of Red Faction: Guerilla where the game was an absolute failure because of some level whether it was Steam's integration or an issue with the port, it would not get past the tutorial level as the dropship would never appear? They refunded every buyer who wanted one, it's still uncertain whether it was Volition/THQ/Steam AFAIK.

It's up to you to prove it, if you go "game's broke refund", if I was in their shoes with the probable multitudes of emails, junk and people saying that, I would ignore it unless you could actually present me with something tangible. How do you do this? It's going to be hard, but there have been successful refunds made, Steam and their customer policy are not an iron wall, they are just strict and rightly so because imagine if they refunded every player who said a game was broken, they would have a right trash up on their hands, they don't employ bug testers to test other company's games, the devs at the company should be doing that. In the cases where a game is completely broken yet some people have found a workaround on their local system to get the game working without entering the game's base code. That means the game works but the local set up not compatible with the games fresh state. Again, is that Steam's fault or the Developer's? I think you'll find it's the latter so harass the correct company.

@SimonPreston, the Ukraine is not part of the EU: http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/member-countries/

My mistake. Should have researched that a bit more before I posted.

It's not Steam's fault that a game they distribute doesn't work. Neither would it be GOGs if they distribute a broken game.

It may not be Steam's fault but if it's brought to their attention that a game is broken and they continue to list the game and sell it then that is their fault. I know many people who e-mailed Steam about this issue so they can't know the problems with it.

You tend not to get herds of people demanding refunds from cinemas and video shops if they don't like a film, bookshops if a novel is naff, Toys-R-Us if a board game is boring, etc... so why should games be different?

I've bought loads of games on Steam (admittedly usually during sales) that looked great in the trailers, but actually turned out to be kinda crap. Ho-hum, set category to 'Boring', uninstall and go play the next one...

Back when I first started gaming, a 'broken' game usually meant you hadn't set it up right or it wasn't compatible with something in your system. Having a dedicated helpline for users who can't get their game working is quite admirable... but at the same time, as a PC user rather than a consoleer, I'd expect the onus to be on me to figure out what I'm doing - or make friends and ask on forums like this one.

If the game itself is fundamentally up the duff, or lacking promised content, I'd still think shouting at the devs is the way to go... or even taking them to court (as with Gearbox over Aliens: Colonial Marines).
Certainly, a retailer only stocks what people want/ask for, so I don't believe in holding them responsible so long as they actually mention certain thing... such as the Dev having gone bust and thus having no game support, or that it has a REALLY bad score from other owners.