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Thread: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

  1. #17
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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Surely they should standardize ready meal packaging and build freezers with built in microwaves.

    All controlled by you mobile phone...

    Hello, what would you like for your lunch?

    1) Ground donkey dick and salt lasagne
    2) Something vaguely creamy with reconstituted chicken.

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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    I'm with the luddites on this one. FO and stop pushing smart technology on things that don't need it. It's an oven FFS!

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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoLS View Post
    Already more than a few lawsuits because people didn't change the default username/password on their webcam, and they got 'hacked', behind the router that was still set to admin:admin...

    As for me, I won't even purchase a major appliance (refrigerator/stove/washer/dryer) if it comes with digital controls (if it breaks, it costs more to repair/replace the digital part than it did to purchase the unit new). I certainly won't be making an exception for things that connect to the net. The big things being pushed lately are LED light bulbs and Nest thermostats.

    Thanks, but I'll pass. I'm roughly 75% off the grid. The electric company has no need to know when my lights are on, for how long, etc.
    Not so sure about LED bulbs. They strike me as a good idea. I don't mind digital controls where they work to my benefit, but I take your point. My kettle, for instance, has digital control over temperature and I use it set to 85 degrees, not boiling, for most purposes.

    But broadly, I agree, and certainly about the level of granularity of data my electricity company needs. While I have any choice, I'm not having one of their smart meters. Don't want it, don't need it, and won't voluntarily have it, now or in the future.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    I highly recommend this useful tumblr:

    http://weputachipinit.tumblr.com/
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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    ... I sense the "Blue Steak of Death" ...
    If you eat your steak any other way you're doing it wrong...

    Erm ... get my coat while you're there

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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    If you eat your steak any other way you're doing it wrong...

    Erm ... get my coat while you're there
    Each to his own. Can't stand my steak blue, or even bloody. At most, slightly pink. I know many people, including celeb chefs, say it's "wrong", but you know what? I like my food how I like it, not how some TV chef tells me I should.

    I had that discussion in an, erm, ... poncy .... restaurant a few years back. I sent a bloody steak back, having asked for "medium" and stipulated I mean only slightly pink, asking for it to be done a bit more. Only to have the owner/chef come out to tell me that's not how "his" food should be eaten. I thanked him for his advice, but said I'd still like it more well-done. He said he wasn't prepared to abuse 'his" food like that, and I ended up telling him if it was "his" food, he could eat it and I'd go get "my dinner" somewhere that was prepared to cook what the customer wanted to eated, not what some jumped-up arrogant jerk wanted to serve. And I left, steak still on plate, to a rousing round of applause from other diners ..... and some subtle grins and a couple of winks from waitresses.

    The place closed down about 4 months later, so I suspect said jerk didn't learn anything .... like that most customers won't make a complaint, let alone a scene, but if they don't like either food or service, they just won't go back. Or spread the (good) word.

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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    How about a smart toilet. It could auto-update your twitter feed with relevant statistics of frequency, duration, weight and colouration... Then it could link directly to Gillian McKeith (or whatever she's called) who could tweet back with an update on your inner workings.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    A smart toilet could be very useful for people who suffer from many kinds of illnesses, real time analysis of urine and fecal matter would be of great benefit to medical professionals. Your pee tells you a lot about you.
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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    A smart toilet could be very useful for people who suffer from many kinds of illnesses, real time analysis of urine and fecal matter would be of great benefit to medical professionals. Your pee tells you a lot about you.
    great, so microsoft can know your wife is preggers/your son has gonnorhea/you have abnormally high PSA. They then sell that information to insurers.... no life insurance for your family just when you need it most! I don't think so!

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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    The rules about who has access to that information are pretty decent on the current ms health offerings.

    The fact is we will be in a society soon that has this data, often in a centralised easy to access place, we should ensure we have clarified laws to protect us.
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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    great, so microsoft can know your wife is preggers/your son has gonnorhea/you have abnormally high PSA. They then sell that information to insurers.... no life insurance for your family just when you need it most! I don't think so!
    If you have abnormally high PSA and your wife is pregnant, you have bigger problems than Microsoft reading the value of your toilet water...

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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Not so sure about LED bulbs. They strike me as a good idea. I don't mind digital controls where they work to my benefit, but I take your point. My kettle, for instance, has digital control over temperature and I use it set to 85 degrees, not boiling, for most purposes.
    LED bulbs I've got no issue with. Actually I'm have some "smart" bulbs like the LIFX ones. Those are "net-enabled" but not "internet enabled" (at the moment). So you can control them from your smartphone, but only if both phone and bulb are on the same WiFi network.
    85C - don't say that too loud or the tea fanatics will be after you with the tar 'n' feathers. Boiling water for proper tea and all that...
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    But broadly, I agree, and certainly about the level of granularity of data my electricity company needs. While I have any choice, I'm not having one of their smart meters. Don't want it, don't need it, and won't voluntarily have it, now or in the future.
    Can a smart meter tell anything about what devices you're using? I thought it was purely a case that the smart meter didn't need a G4S lass/lad to come and look at it. Second question would be if a smart meter connection could be used to bridge to a Powerline Ethernet network - probably not, but I'm wondering now...
    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    How about a smart toilet. It could auto-update your twitter feed with relevant statistics of frequency, duration, weight and colouration... Then it could link directly to Gillian McKeith (or whatever she's called) who could tweet back with an update on your inner workings.
    There's already something similar in Japan - although I can't see anyone being particularly interested in a "pee post". Kind of things that proud parents are wont to do.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm not a luddite - so IoT is okay in my book. It's just that I want absolute control over what data is shared, when, and with whom. And current IoT solutions from the big names all seem to rely on you giving free access to whatever they want.

    Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...

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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    ....

    85C - don't say that too loud or the tea fanatics will be after you with the tar 'n' feathers. Boiling water for proper tea and all that...

    ....
    Well, as I don't drink tea ...

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    ....

    Can a smart meter tell anything about what devices you're using? I thought it was purely a case that the smart meter didn't need a G4S lass/lad to come and look at it. Second question would be if a smart meter connection could be used to bridge to a Powerline Ethernet network - probably not, but I'm wondering now...
    If a smartmeter was sending back one meter readingxat the end of a billing cycle, I'd have no real objection. But when it's sending readings every x minutes, which would give a very clear indication, for example, of whether we're even home or nit, then I do.

    Data mining is capable of drawing all sorts of inferences from data, for instance, that given several periods of minimum usage for several weeks at a time, a likely inference is several annual holidays. And from that, decent inferences are :-

    - first, protracted periods where the house is empty,
    - second, you're a good candidate for travel insurance .... = junkmail
    - third, you've likely to be a good candidate for travel products .... = junkmail.
    - fourth, you've likely got a decent disposable income .... = important data point for profile.

    Essentially, the way data mining works (as I'm sure you know) is that if you amass enough data, on enough people, compyrers can spot trends, links and associations that a human analsyst likely never would.

    And therefore, ANY data, any at all, helps build a profile on an individual, when you match and combine. So, I do everything I can to avoid corporates getting ANY data on me, if I realistically can, unless there's an overriding reason for not doing so. My logic isn't "what harm can 'that' do", but "give NOTHING away, unless it suits my purposes", because I can't possibly know what harm, what inferences, could come out of linking two or more apparently innocuous data points
    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    ....

    Don't get me wrong - I'm not a luddite - so IoT is okay in my book. It's just that I want absolute control over what data is shared, when, and with whom. And current IoT solutions from the big names all seem to rely on you giving free access to whatever they want.
    Well, I'm kind-of with you there. I want absolute control over what data is shared, and with whom. But with so much surreptitious collection going on, I'm going to need a hell of a lot of convincing that anything, short of blocking any and all collection I can, will give me that. Industry has given me no reason to believe I can trust them with my data, and several documented examples of why I can't - like promising not to send junk mail or make phone calls, and then doing exactly that. Trust is now in VERY short supply, given experiences to the contrary.

    My attitude, and cynicism, over data acquisition is borne of negative experience, not some abstract or ideological objection.

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    The rules about who has access to that information are pretty decent on the current ms health offerings.

    The fact is we will be in a society soon that has this data, often in a centralised easy to access place, we should ensure we have clarified laws to protect us.
    Assuming that all data collectors abide by the law, and have rigorous controls in place to protect it. Its all very well applying penalties to companies that do lose or leak personal information, but that isn't going to alter the fact that data has been leaked!
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  17. #31
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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    surely the easy solution is rather a law mandating that all smart devices must come with the ability for the purchaser to fully disable smart tech data sharing without any loss or prejudice of function. Eg a smart oven should be fully useable as a regular oven if the smart functionality is turned off by the user. And that way when the digital bit breaks the oven is not just scrap metal.

  18. #32
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    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoLS View Post
    If you have abnormally high PSA and your wife is pregnant, you have bigger problems than Microsoft reading the value of your toilet water...
    I get where you're coming from but the latter does not rule out getting your good lady up the duff.

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