Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 33

Thread: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

  1. #1
    HEXUS.admin
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    28,322
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    1,845 times in 628 posts

    Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    And Fujitsu announces Microsoft IoT partnership to optimise (lettuce) production.
    Read more.

  2. #2
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    I suspect my reaction won't surprise many here.

    Miele and Microsoft have developed a website where users select recipes. Once selected food preparation stages are downloaded to the user's smartphone or tablet and the matching program is loaded onto the oven through Microsoft Azure. The oven varies temperature, cooking time, humidity (by adding steam) and other factors to match the recipe to help cook your meal to perfection.
    I'm no Michelin chef, but ..... really?

    I'm a Miele fan, but a SmartOven? Give me strength. Maybe for the hopelessly inept, but what happens when, as the cook, you vary the recipe to suit your tastes? When you increase this, or substitute that for the other, or if you like whatever it is a little better of less done? How do you like you steak? Rare, medium or well-done? What about a roast?

    Sorry, but it's not for me. I wouldn't pay 50p extra for an IoT oven, and NO WAY am I using a website, or MS services, that tell companies what I eat, or for that matter, which days I use my oven. I just told my utility company to shove their "smart" meter for the same reason. I wouldn't pay extra for this type of oven because no way would I connect it. And if the device came at a premium (and my bet is it will) it would cause me to buy a different model or, if need-be, a non-Miele product.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kingdom of Fife (Scotland)
    Posts
    4,991
    Thanks
    393
    Thanked
    220 times in 190 posts
    • crossy's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS Sabertooth X99
      • CPU:
      • Intel 5830k / Noctua NH-D15
      • Memory:
      • 32GB Crucial Ballistix DDR4
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 850Pro NVMe, 1TB Samsung 850EVO SSD, 1TB Seagate SSHD, 2TB WD Green, 8TB Seagate
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix GTX970OC
      • PSU:
      • Corsair AX750 (modular)
      • Case:
      • Coolermaster HAF932 (with wheels)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64bit, Ubuntu 16.04LTS
      • Monitor(s):
      • LG Flattron W2361V
      • Internet:
      • VirginMedia 200Mb

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    I suspect my reaction won't surprise many here.
    Hmm, given the anti-Microsoft feeling coming from your recent posts I've read, I'd be sore afraid that the SmartOven would "accidentally" undercook and polish you off by food poisoning!

    Like you I thought that cooking was a "creative" exercise, so I'm not sure that this latest thing isn't "cloud for the sake of it". After all, what'd be wrong with some kind of (non-cloud) DB lookup that the device could do - heck even a QR code-based thing. And no, I'm not getting at you with "anti-Microsoft feeling" - you gave pretty convincing personal reasons.

    I had a look last year at one of those "smart microwaves" and came to the conclusion that it was actually a lot more effort-intensive than a "dumb" model. It was fine if you wanted the amounts of those foods it knew about, but hopeless otherwise. My negativity shocked SWMBO because she'd assumed I'd be all in favour of another "fancy computer gadget".

    Maybe all these IoT advocates need to be sat down in front of films such as Demon Seed and maybe learn a lesson.

    Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...

  4. #4
    Anthropomorphic Personification shaithis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    The Last Aerie
    Posts
    10,825
    Thanks
    645
    Thanked
    868 times in 733 posts
    • shaithis's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z77 WS
      • CPU:
      • i7 3770k @ 4.5GHz
      • Memory:
      • 32GB HyperX 1866
      • Storage:
      • Lots!
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire Fury X
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX850
      • Case:
      • Corsair 600T (White)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2 x Dell 3007
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb Fibre

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    I really like the idea of IoT in my kitchen, I just can't bring myself to wear the outlay of it (at least not yet).

    Keeping track of my stock of ingredients, best before dates, offering cooking times/settings and even offering me recipes based on what I have in the cupboards/fridge/freezer all seem value added extra I would be interested in.

    The problem is how much it would cost to cover those bases...plus we need great tools and an open API so that you don't get tied into horrid software or a fragmented ecosystem.
    Main PC: Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 3960X@4.5GHz / Antec H1200 Pro / 32GB DDR3-1866 Quad Channel / Sapphire Fury X / Areca 1680 / 850W EVGA SuperNOVA Gold 2 / Corsair 600T / 2x Dell 3007 / 4 x 250GB SSD + 2 x 80GB SSD / 4 x 1TB HDD (RAID 10) / Windows 10 Pro, Yosemite & Ubuntu
    HTPC: AsRock Z77 Pro 4 / 3770K@4.2GHz / 24GB / GTX 1080 / SST-LC20 / Antec TP-550 / Hisense 65k5510 4K TV / HTC Vive / 2 x 240GB SSD + 12TB HDD Space / Race Seat / Logitech G29 / Win 10 Pro
    HTPC2: Asus AM1I-A / 5150 / 4GB / Corsair Force 3 240GB / Silverstone SST-ML05B + ST30SF / Samsung UE60H6200 TV / Windows 10 Pro
    Spare/Loaner: Gigabyte EX58-UD5 / i950 / 12GB / HD7870 / Corsair 300R / Silverpower 700W modular
    NAS 1: HP N40L / 12GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Arrays || NAS 2: Dell PowerEdge T110 II / 24GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Hybrid arrays || Network:Buffalo WZR-1166DHP w/DD-WRT + HP ProCurve 1800-24G
    Laptop: Lenovo Flex 2 / 12GB RAM / 240GB Corsair Force 3 Printer: HP CP1515n || Phone: HTC One U11 || Other: Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 Pro 10.1 CM12.1 / Playstation 4 + G29 + 2TB Hybrid drive

  5. #5
    Senior Member Smudger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    St Albans
    Posts
    3,595
    Thanks
    570
    Thanked
    503 times in 379 posts
    • Smudger's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gbyte GA-970A-UD3P
      • CPU:
      • AMD FX8320 Black Edition
      • Memory:
      • 16GB 2x8G CML16GX3M2A1600C10
      • Storage:
      • 1x240Gb Corsair M500, 2TB TOSHIBA DT01ACA200
      • Graphics card(s):
      • XFX Radeon HD4890 1GB
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX520
      • Case:
      • Akasa Zen
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Home
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 24"
      • Internet:
      • Virgin 200Mbit

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    What if someone hacks you and sets it to burn everything?

  6. #6
    Anthropomorphic Personification shaithis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    The Last Aerie
    Posts
    10,825
    Thanks
    645
    Thanked
    868 times in 733 posts
    • shaithis's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z77 WS
      • CPU:
      • i7 3770k @ 4.5GHz
      • Memory:
      • 32GB HyperX 1866
      • Storage:
      • Lots!
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire Fury X
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX850
      • Case:
      • Corsair 600T (White)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2 x Dell 3007
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb Fibre

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by Smudger View Post
    What if someone hacks you and sets it to burn everything?
    TBH, I would rather my lunch gets burnt, rather than all my data getting compromised. So it's less of a concern compared to devices I am already protecting.

    I guess there would be the inevitable lawsuits in the US because "My firewall didn't protect me from the oven burning me!"
    Main PC: Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 3960X@4.5GHz / Antec H1200 Pro / 32GB DDR3-1866 Quad Channel / Sapphire Fury X / Areca 1680 / 850W EVGA SuperNOVA Gold 2 / Corsair 600T / 2x Dell 3007 / 4 x 250GB SSD + 2 x 80GB SSD / 4 x 1TB HDD (RAID 10) / Windows 10 Pro, Yosemite & Ubuntu
    HTPC: AsRock Z77 Pro 4 / 3770K@4.2GHz / 24GB / GTX 1080 / SST-LC20 / Antec TP-550 / Hisense 65k5510 4K TV / HTC Vive / 2 x 240GB SSD + 12TB HDD Space / Race Seat / Logitech G29 / Win 10 Pro
    HTPC2: Asus AM1I-A / 5150 / 4GB / Corsair Force 3 240GB / Silverstone SST-ML05B + ST30SF / Samsung UE60H6200 TV / Windows 10 Pro
    Spare/Loaner: Gigabyte EX58-UD5 / i950 / 12GB / HD7870 / Corsair 300R / Silverpower 700W modular
    NAS 1: HP N40L / 12GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Arrays || NAS 2: Dell PowerEdge T110 II / 24GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Hybrid arrays || Network:Buffalo WZR-1166DHP w/DD-WRT + HP ProCurve 1800-24G
    Laptop: Lenovo Flex 2 / 12GB RAM / 240GB Corsair Force 3 Printer: HP CP1515n || Phone: HTC One U11 || Other: Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 Pro 10.1 CM12.1 / Playstation 4 + G29 + 2TB Hybrid drive

  7. #7
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    Hmm, given the anti-Microsoft feeling coming from your recent posts I've read, I'd be sore afraid that the SmartOven would "accidentally" undercook and polish you off by food poisoning!

    ..... And no, I'm not getting at you with "anti-Microsoft feeling" - you gave pretty convincing personal reasons.

    ...
    It's not really anti-Microsoft. It's more 'anti-the-way-things-are-increasingly-going'. I see MSs apparent direction of travel as a symptom, not the actual disease. It's the way so much is going.

    For example, government presumption that our private medical data is theirs to use as they see fit. After serious backlash from the medical community, they at least conceded and gave us an ability to opt-out, but I wonder what proportion of the population did, or even realised that an implication of not doing so was that most of your medical records at your GP would (not could, but would) be uploaded to central servers, from which it could end up, even in identifiable form, in the hands of university academics AND private companies.

    The result of that was that I had a very direct chat with my doctor, opted out and have written confirmation of that. Nonetheless, the system to connect and upload ALL patient records has, as far as I know, gone ahead and the ONLY difference between patients whose data is uploaded and those whose isn't is the presence or absence of a couple of read codes on the file meaning "don't upload". Assuming, of course, no coding 'mistakes' or 'accidental' removal/editing of those read codes.

    Doctors, many of whom are opposed to this system, at least in the absence of it being opt-in not opt-out, don't have any choice but to comply, no matter what their ethical objections might be.

    Anyway, it's a jump from MS to NHS GP patient data but the ethos is the same - we're all just blobs of data belonging to government or big corporates.

    George Orwell was right, except about the date.

  8. #8
    Super Nerd
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Cambridge
    Posts
    1,785
    Thanks
    22
    Thanked
    105 times in 72 posts

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    I suspect my reaction won't surprise many here.

    ...

    and NO WAY am I using a website, or MS services, that tell companies what I eat, or for that matter, which days I use my oven.
    Nope, no surprise, but maybe you've gone a little beyond this time! Although, imagine the horror of it getting out that you eat pizza and chips 4 times a week. I'm pretty sure risk from an IoT oven is minimal, unless hackers overcook your Sunday lunch, before anyone suggests miscreants could overheat your oven and burn down your house I think that's vanishingly unlikely, ovens with pyrolytic cleaning hit 500C without causing fires after all.

  9. #9
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by kingpotnoodle View Post
    Nope, no surprise, but maybe you've gone a little beyond this time! Although, imagine the horror of it getting out that you eat pizza and chips 4 times a week. I'm pretty sure risk from an IoT oven is minimal, unless hackers overcook your Sunday lunch, before anyone suggests miscreants could overheat your oven and burn down your house I think that's vanishingly unlikely, ovens with pyrolytic cleaning hit 500C without causing fires after all.
    You're missing the point. Other than supporting a product I've bought, i.e. warranty issues and/or recall, Miele don't need to know I exist, and as far as either my eating habits or oven-buying habits are concerned. nor do MS.

    So, recipe data is one tiny little ad apparently harmless bit of data. But it would tell them where I live, when I do, or don't operate the oven, and given Miele's pricing, it sure hints at socio-economic grouping.

    But then, the whole point of data warehousing and mining is that a snippet here, a snippet there, over a period builds into a remarkably detailed statistical picture of each of us.

    So, next time someone's looking to sell high-end kitchen equipment in my area, a search shows I've bought a Miele oven (if, of courser, I had) and that gets me targeted. Or, whatever the snippet is.

    My point is I don't want to be targeted. Ever. By anyone selling anything. No exceptions.

    And as for IoT ovens, I see, for me, zero benefits from it. None at all. And so, any data given away gains me zilch that I want. So why on earth would I?

    For the record, I don't remember the last time I had pizza.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    339
    Thanks
    40
    Thanked
    38 times in 26 posts
    • hb904460's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus A88XM-PLUS
      • CPU:
      • AMD A6-5400K
      • Memory:
      • 8gb DDR3 @ 1866mhz
      • Storage:
      • 120gb OCZ Vertex 3 + 500gb WD Caviar Blue
      • PSU:
      • Antec NeoEco 620W
      • Case:
      • Silverstone PS07
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • Viewsonic VA2037m

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    At some point life insurance companies will be looking at your eating habits and refusing cover or raising prices based on your diet.

  11. #11
    Admin team peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    19,065
    Thanks
    2,766
    Thanked
    3,306 times in 2,617 posts
    • peterb's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Nascom 2
      • CPU:
      • Z80B
      • Memory:
      • 48K 8 bit memory on separate card
      • Storage:
      • Audio cassette tape - home built 5.25" floppy drive
      • Graphics card(s):
      • text output (composite video)
      • PSU:
      • Home built
      • Case:
      • Home built
      • Operating System:
      • Nas-sys
      • Monitor(s):
      • 12" monocrome composite video input
      • Internet:
      • No networking capability on this machine

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Hmm, I sense the "Blue Steak of Death"

















    /fetches coat
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

    Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
    My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute

  12. #12
    Admin team peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    19,065
    Thanks
    2,766
    Thanked
    3,306 times in 2,617 posts
    • peterb's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Nascom 2
      • CPU:
      • Z80B
      • Memory:
      • 48K 8 bit memory on separate card
      • Storage:
      • Audio cassette tape - home built 5.25" floppy drive
      • Graphics card(s):
      • text output (composite video)
      • PSU:
      • Home built
      • Case:
      • Home built
      • Operating System:
      • Nas-sys
      • Monitor(s):
      • 12" monocrome composite video input
      • Internet:
      • No networking capability on this machine

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by kingpotnoodle View Post
    imagine the horror of it getting out that you eat pizza and chips 4 times a week.
    And this coming from a username kingpotnoodle????
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

    Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
    My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute

  13. Received thanks from:

    McEwin (14-04-2015)

  14. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kingdom of Fife (Scotland)
    Posts
    4,991
    Thanks
    393
    Thanked
    220 times in 190 posts
    • crossy's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS Sabertooth X99
      • CPU:
      • Intel 5830k / Noctua NH-D15
      • Memory:
      • 32GB Crucial Ballistix DDR4
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 850Pro NVMe, 1TB Samsung 850EVO SSD, 1TB Seagate SSHD, 2TB WD Green, 8TB Seagate
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix GTX970OC
      • PSU:
      • Corsair AX750 (modular)
      • Case:
      • Coolermaster HAF932 (with wheels)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64bit, Ubuntu 16.04LTS
      • Monitor(s):
      • LG Flattron W2361V
      • Internet:
      • VirginMedia 200Mb

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by hb904460 View Post
    At some point life insurance companies will be looking at your eating habits and refusing cover or raising prices based on your diet.
    Shush That's how Microsoft/Miele are going to "monetize" this particular cloud - they'll cross reference your "smartfridge" and "smartoven" (along with whatever Sainsbury's, Tesco, Asda, etc are going to sell them) to figure out what you're eating with exercise data from fitness bands or phone. Then sell the results to insurance companies because they can then better estimate if you're likely to be overweight etc. Especially if the (privatised) NHS then sells them medical data.
    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Hmm, I sense the "Blue Steak of Death"

    /fetches coat
    Like it. Although maybe "BSoD" is Black Steak of Death.

    Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...

  15. #14
    Admin team peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    19,065
    Thanks
    2,766
    Thanked
    3,306 times in 2,617 posts
    • peterb's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Nascom 2
      • CPU:
      • Z80B
      • Memory:
      • 48K 8 bit memory on separate card
      • Storage:
      • Audio cassette tape - home built 5.25" floppy drive
      • Graphics card(s):
      • text output (composite video)
      • PSU:
      • Home built
      • Case:
      • Home built
      • Operating System:
      • Nas-sys
      • Monitor(s):
      • 12" monocrome composite video input
      • Internet:
      • No networking capability on this machine

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Well, it won't be cooking Apple crumble, or Rasberry Pie!
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

    Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
    My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute

  16. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,648
    Thanks
    84
    Thanked
    63 times in 57 posts
    • pp05's system
      • Motherboard:
      • AsRock Fatal1ty B450 Gaming itx
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 3 2200G
      • Memory:
      • Ballistix Elite 8GB Kit 3200 UDIMM
      • Storage:
      • Kingston 240gb SSD
      • PSU:
      • Kolink SFX 350W PSU
      • Case:
      • Kolink Sattelite plus MITX
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    Shush That's how Microsoft/Miele are going to "monetize" this particular cloud - they'll cross reference your "smartfridge" and "smartoven" (along with whatever Sainsbury's, Tesco, Asda, etc are going to sell them) to figure out what you're eating with exercise data from fitness bands or phone. Then sell the results to insurance companies because they can then better estimate if you're likely to be overweight etc. Especially if the (privatised) NHS then sells them medical data.

    Like it. Although maybe "BSoD" is Black Steak of Death.
    Or worse your cooker will be on a subscription basis where you pay out on each hob as of when you need it, with advanced features like turbo-cook and projector beaming Jamie Oliver onto the wall giving you step-by-step guide. This innovation will be called Smartcooking 2.0.

  17. #16
    Token 'murican GuidoLS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    806
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked
    110 times in 78 posts
    • GuidoLS's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P5Q Pro
      • CPU:
      • C2Q 9550 stock
      • Memory:
      • 8gb Corsair
      • Storage:
      • 2x1tb Hitachi 7200's, WD Velociraptor 320gb primary
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia 9800GT
      • PSU:
      • Corsair 750w
      • Case:
      • Antec 900
      • Operating System:
      • Win10/Slackware Linux dual box
      • Monitor(s):
      • Viewsonic 24" 1920x1080
      • Internet:
      • AT&T U-Verse 12mb

    Re: Microsoft and Miele collaborate to make smarter home appliances

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smudger View Post
    What if someone hacks you and sets it to burn everything?
    I guess there would be the inevitable lawsuits in the US because "My firewall didn't protect me from the oven burning me!"
    Already more than a few lawsuits because people didn't change the default username/password on their webcam, and they got 'hacked', behind the router that was still set to admin:admin...

    As for me, I won't even purchase a major appliance (refrigerator/stove/washer/dryer) if it comes with digital controls (if it breaks, it costs more to repair/replace the digital part than it did to purchase the unit new). I certainly won't be making an exception for things that connect to the net. The big things being pushed lately are LED light bulbs and Nest thermostats.

    Thanks, but I'll pass. I'm roughly 75% off the grid. The electric company has no need to know when my lights are on, for how long, etc.
    Esse Quam Videri
    Out on the road today I saw a Black Flag Sticker on a Cadillac...


  18. Received thanks from:

    Saracen (14-04-2015)

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •