Windows 10 is "the last version of Windows," says Microsoft dev

[jag272]

Anyway the end result is:- unless MS can persuade motherboard makers to install a chip ( a type of dongle) on the motherboard then with software, pirates will always find a way of making illegal win 10...... genuine.

Doubt that would even work, let alone the privacy issues involved. The reality is that were already at the stage where Windows hacks are done via BIOS and load in before windows does. In that situation the hack is likely to always be able to intercept windows and return its own response, unless Microsoft find a way to bypass the BIOS itself in it's checks.

With Windows I think its reached the point where Microsoft simply need to incentivise legitimate buyers. Nothing wrong with adding more layers off security to prevent piracy or trying to obfuscate the required code etc but if they get overly aggressive like chips on motherboards I think it will just blow back in their face. For something as core to PCs as Windows I think its best to just accept it will get hacked and pirated, what Microsoft are doing is trying to encourage as many people to upgrade to the new system as possible, including previous pirates.

[Saracen]

How many times are they supposed to give you something for free? And while most people don't bother with the EULA, but buying Windows always entitled you to one machine and one machine only. They've just never enforced it.

...

One machine only for OEM licences. One machine at a time, transferable, for retail licences.

[Saracen]

....

What are your thoughts on Googles model, they seem to use ads/services/track personal details/App store to fund their OS and so does Apple but with the added bonus of Hardware sales.

My view of Google is that they are the spawn of Satan, and that I hate, loathe, despise and detest their business model, and that I hope they rot in the deepest circle of hell for eternity. Doubled.

I have suspicions about MS. I'm way, way past that with Google. So far past it I'm barely in the same universe, and certainly not in the same galaxy. If I ever pull a thorn out of a genie's foot and get three wishes, one of them will be for Google and all it's works to cease to exist.

In other words, their No. 1 fan, I ain't.

[GuidoLS]

One machine only for OEM licences. One machine at a time, transferable, for retail licences.

XP, before SP1, definitely fit the bill across both OEM and retail. Can't begin to count the number of times I actually had to call MS to re-activate or validate an install because of a cpu or video card upgrade. As for 7, the wording changed slightly - or should I say, the wording disappeared. It now no longer says if you can or cannot install the retail on a second computer after the first computer is taken out of service.

2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS.

a. One Copy per Computer. Except as allowed in Section 2 (b) below, you may install one copy of the software on one computer. That computer is the “licensed computer.”

b. Family Pack. If you are a “Qualified Family Pack User”, you may install one copy of the software marked as “Family Pack” on three computers in your household for use by people who reside there.

Note the lack of designation.

You can, however, transfer the software to a 3rd party if you give up all of the media, packaging, etc.

18. TRANSFER TO A THIRD PARTY. a. Software Other Than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may make a one time transfer of the software and this agreement, by transferring the original media, the certificate of authenticity, the product key and the proof of purchase directly to a third party. The first user must remove the software before transferring it separately from the computer. The first user may not retain any copies of the software.

I'm also aware that certain EULA's don't necessarily hold any weight in the EU - I can only comment on the rules set forth here in the US. But I'm 100% certain MS has all their I's dotted and all their T's crossed properly, regardless of where they're doing business.

And as far as this free upgrade goes, it's pretty clear that the upgrade will be to the appropriate RTM version, which you may as well translate to OEM, since manufacturers don't use retail media. So, even by your definition, it's one and done.

Which begs the question - How many times are they supposed to give you something for free? (you being a generic term, and not you specifically)

[crossy]

"I am wondering if in the future we will be the installer process change so that all apps must be installed via the Windows Store."

That is a serious issue for me. I want to choose what programs I install, not what MS things I should install. I want to go direct to the program website to download (thereby ensuring MS do not get their cut of the price). This walled garden approach is one of the key reasons I will not jump to apple

* First off, can you really see the likes of Adobe etc wanting to give up control of their stuff to Microsoft? Especially if the move to Windows Store also means that they don't get to do IAP's.
* Secondly, if apps are installed via Windows Store - how exactly will that prevent sideload? When all's said and done, "install" is just a case of dropping files onto a box and updating registry. So even if there's no official way to do it then there'll be plenty of unofficial ways. Oh, and that's ignoring folks like InstallShield who've got a lot of money tied up in installer tech - lawsuit time?
* Thirdly, if it's installed via Windows Store then presumably updates get delivered in the same manner. So instead of umpteen update checkers (for some god-forsaken vendors they have one per product ffs) we get one. I want that so much that I'd pay MS for that feature alone
* Fourthly, while I can see top-shelf titles making it into Windows Store, the sheer effort required to "certify" even a tiny fraction of the available Windows10-compatible titles is mind boggling. I think if Microsoft's entire staff do nothing else for the next decade they still couldn't do it.
* Fifthly, legacy products - one of Windows biggest attractions is that, in most cases, a program designed for an earlier release will still work. My kids still have apps on their W8.1 boxes that were designed for XP. I really can't see any sane Microsoft wanting to throw that away.

No, to me at least, Windows Store may become the preferred route for app delivery, but no way in heck that it'll ever be the only route.

[Saracen]

XP, before SP1, definitely fit the bill across both OEM and retail. Can't begin to count the number of times I actually had to call MS to re-activate or validate an install because of a cpu or video card upgrade. As for 7, the wording changed slightly - or should I say, the wording disappeared. It now no longer says if you can or cannot install the retail on a second computer after the first computer is taken out of service.


Note the lack of designation.

You can, however, transfer the software to a 3rd party if you give up all of the media, packaging, etc.



I'm also aware that certain EULA's don't necessarily hold any weight in the EU - I can only comment on the rules set forth here in the US. But I'm 100% certain MS has all their I's dotted and all their T's crossed properly, regardless of where they're doing business.

And as far as this free upgrade goes, it's pretty clear that the upgrade will be to the appropriate RTM version, which you may as well translate to OEM, since manufacturers don't use retail media. So, even by your definition, it's one and done.

....

Do you have a section 17, right before the s18 you quoted? What does it say?

Because mine, and this is Windows 7 Pro, retail licence, says

17 Transfer to another computer

a. Software other than Windows Anytime Upgrade

You may transfer the software and install it on another computer for your use. That computer becomes the licenced computer. You may not do this to share this licence between computers.

Section 17 b covers Anytime Upgrades, but that isn't what I have.

Now this is a UK (or EU) licence, and I don't know what your US licence says, but here, no, it's not one and done, not for RETAIL licences. For OEM, yes, except in specific circumstances, but not for retail versions. It's one "at a time", as I said. As I use this on a test system, this licence has probably been installed and activated, though sometimes it took a phone call, 100+ times, on different machines. And it certainly isn't MS doing it out of kindness. It's them simply following the terms of my licence. It's also, by the way, why I have the retail version, not the considerably cheaper OEM version.

So, again .... one at a time.

[GuidoLS]

Do you have a section 17, right before the s18 you quoted? What does it say?

Because mine, and this is Windows 7 Pro, retail licence, says

Section 17 b covers Anytime Upgrades, but that isn't what I have.

Now this is a UK (or EU) licence, and I don't know what your US licence says, but here, no, it's not one and done, not for RETAIL licences. For OEM, yes, except in specific circumstances, but not for retail versions. It's one "at a time", as I said. As I use this on a test system, this licence has probably been installed and activated, though sometimes it took a phone call, 100+ times, on different machines. And it certainly isn't MS doing it out of kindness. It's them simply following the terms of my licence. It's also, by the way, why I have the retail version, not the considerably cheaper OEM version.

So, again .... one at a time.

I stand corrected. I looked online, and somewhat interestingly, the terms on the MS site do not match, 100%, with my local copy, which references the anytime upgrade, but not the one machine at a time (there is no a and b - just the b content). There's also a subsection c under section 2 that I posted above, which isn't in the local copy.

They say it's subject to change. Actually glad to be incorrect on this one. Thanks for pointing out the error.

[Saracen]

I stand corrected. I looked online, and somewhat interestingly, the terms on the MS site do not match, 100%, with my local copy, which references the anytime upgrade, but not the one machine at a time (there is no a and b - just the b content). There's also a subsection c under section 2 that I posted above, which isn't in the local copy.

They say it's subject to change. Actually glad to be incorrect on this one. Thanks for pointing out the error.

Licence T&C's do evolve over time. This is, IMHO of course, both utterly reasonable, and .... dangerous. They can't realistically be pickled in Aspic, enxased in Amber, for all time. Circumstances change, as do the necessary licence terms, not least when new purchase/upgrade routes appear. IIRC, the "Anywhere" upgrade basically said the upgraded version incorporated the same transferabilty rights as the version bring upgraded. So, upgrade a retail licence and you got transferabilty. Upgrade an OEM version and you didn't. But Icdidn't use it so I didn't pay the Anywhere options much attention.

The dangerous bit is that I've been watching MS (and a few others) licence T&Cs for quite a while, half-expecting exactly such a curtailment to be snuck in via the back door. Of course, I'm not the only journalist keeping a guard watch on the pages of legalese, so if it does happen, it'll come out.

The licence T&C's is one of the things I'll be carefully checking before even considering a Win7 to Win 10, or Win8 to win 10, upgrade. If we lose that transferabilty option, that kills Win10 stone dead for me. If, as some have suggested, it ties Win10 to a single device, then no Win10 for me. I haven't seen anything (yet) to suggest MS have that in mind, but I'm alert to the possibility.

All told, my feeling is that there's about 5% information and 95% speculation as to what MS have planned for Win's future. A fair bit of that speculation, and indeed the information, is consistent with some of my 'nightmare' routes, like subscription (over medium term, not necessarily quite yet) but it's certainly also consistent with things that aren't subscription, etc.

Perhaps illuminating is that MS can't dail to be aware of the speculation boinging round the net, and a firm, absolure commitment not to go sub in, say, the next 2, or 5, or 10 years is noticable by it's absence. This may or may not mean anything, but it worries me a fair bit. Hence me having made preparations, tests, test machines, etc, ebabling a rapid switch to Linux if, repeat IF they go that way.

[excalibur2]

Well Saracen more speculation from your post:- So you are using Win 10 and in three years time MS go over to subscription then would that mean MS would send an update that would make your win 10 inoperable..well surely information on the net would advise not to download this update. Of course you would be stuck with win 10 that could not be updated for bugs, but that could be a small problem if win 10 turns out to be a great OS from the beginning.

[Saracen]

Well Saracen more speculation from your post:- So you are using Win 10 and in three years time MS go over to subscription then would that mean MS would send an update that would make your win 10 inoperable..well surely information on the net would advise not to download this update. Of course you would be stuck with win 10 that could not be updated for bugs, but that could be a small problem if win 10 turns out to be a great OS from the beginning.

Unless (and until) the situation is clarified in relation to pricing, etc, and EXACTLY what the "free" bit is all about, with details, and bearing in mind I do read T&C's, I won't be upgrading to Win10 in the first place. Unless I can be sure of several aspects, including any changes to T&Cs as a result of the "free" upgrade, I'll be keeping my machines as they are now. How great W10 is or isn't won't matter if it's no use to me for other reasons.