Even free upgraders can install Windows 10 from scratch

[HEXUS]

Confirms Microsoft's Gabe Aul via Twitter.

Read more.

[LeetyMcLeet]

Gg ms

[scaryjim]

Unfortunately it wasn't made clear how Microsoft would verify you were reinstalling on the same device and what, if any, activation process users would have to go though.

Beg to differ: we've had this conversation already over in http://forums.hexus.net/windows/3398...ml#post3478226 and from the rest of that twitter conversation it's pretty clear that Microsoft will harvest some form of machine identifying information and bind your license to that hardware configuration, which will be checked by the activation service each time you re-install.

There's also a tweet (that I don't have a link to) saying they'll publish details of how much hardware can be changed before it's not considered the same device at a later date. But presumably within the next 8 weeks

[Tabbykatze]

Technically they do that already from Win XP onwards. In their Ts & Cs of OS installs, you're legally bound to only use that license key on that machines hardware only on the keys first install. You're not allowed to change the Mobo or CPU, peripheral components are fine. But a quick phone call/internet activation and they don't really care. I think I've used the same license key on about 5 rebuild generations of hardware and I haven't had the Microsoft SWAT team knock down my door.

It's probably still going to be the same.

Edit: Just scanned through 8.1s licensing agreement and can't see that clause, maybe they removed it. I'm probably wrong, been a long time

[Brian224]

You're not allowed to change the Mobo or CPU, peripheral components are fine. But a quick phone call/internet activation and they don't really care.

IIRC they identify Motherboard, CPU, MAC address and C drive. Change any two you are OK, more than that needs a phone call. Only once have I actually spoken to a person on the other end (I had already changed the CPU and HDD and a new motherboard meant a new MAC address), all the others have been automated - a bit long-winded but easy enough, certainly MUCH easier than Adobe.

[Domestic_Ginger]

I'm not so sure they'll be so bothered. From what I understand; 10 is going to be an delivery device for their appstore. They're feeling a bit left out. AFAIK you need a ms account to into it. I never used it though BTW.

I've been on 10 for a while now as part of the insider programme. Updated from vista on my laptop and oh boy! Its been like getting a hardware upgrade of a couple of gens. It seems lower level unless you know where to look, similar in many respects to android.

[scaryjim]

Technically they do that already from Win XP onwards. ...

That's not quite the same - with Win XP the OS kept track of what hardware it was running on, and if too much hardware changed from installation to boot it would flag itself as unlicensed. AFAIK this was the first open statement that they bind your license to your device at the activation service rather than directly on the device (although I suspect they may have done this for Win 8, since I don't think I've seen a new Win 8 device with a license key on its COA).

With Win XP (and Win 7) you could buy retail copies of the OS , that could be moved from device to device with you (as long as you only used it on one device at a time). I specifically bought a retail copy of Win 7 for my HTPC as I knew I'd want to upgrade it every couple of years, and so far I've reinstalled and reactivated it a couple of times, completely within the Retail EULA. If Win 10 is going to validate its license against a device signature that's held by Microsoft's activation service, that's a definite departure from the Win XP/Win 7 Retail model.

Of course, none of that is directly relevant to the article which is only discussing reinstalling the OS on your existing device; I only linked the other thread because it has links to the tweets from which I sourced my information. I simply wanted to point out that it is clear "how Microsoft would verify you were reinstalling on the same device " - they are going to bind your license to a device signature held by the activation service.

[Saracen]

Technically they do that already from Win XP onwards. In their Ts & Cs of OS installs, you're legally bound to only use that license key on that machines hardware only on the keys first install. You're not allowed to change the Mobo or CPU, peripheral components are fine. But a quick phone call/internet activation and they don't really care. I think I've used the same license key on about 5 rebuild generations of hardware and I haven't had the Microsoft SWAT team knock down my door.

It's probably still going to be the same.

Edit: Just scanned through 8.1s licensing agreement and can't see that clause, maybe they removed it. I'm probably wrong, been a long time.

It may depend on which version of EULA you look at ... and which you bought.

However, it certainly isn't the case for retail versions of XP or Win7, which DO allow transfer, machine to machine. It's one machine at a time, and you are to remove from current machine before installing on new machine. I have several Win7 Retail Pro and ultimate licences which this definitely applies to. Para 17a of the EULA, in the case of Pro. You can also transfer the licence to a new owner, but again, must remove the existing Installation first, and transfer entire package, including COA, etc. And, that right (Para 18) applies to FIRST owner, from which I deduce that the buyer cannot do it again.

Somewhere, I still have XP EULAs which I'm sure said much the same, though most of my machine to machine transfers were test systems done on a corporate licence supplied by MS' press office, for that express purpose. My Win7 licences, I bought.

And for those licences, transferabilty is key to me, which is why IF, as appears to be the case, the "upgrade", free or otherwise, invalidates the original licence, AND precludes transfers, either via binding and activation, or even just via EULA, the "upgrade", for me, mwill be anything but.

I bought retail licences rather than OEM precisely for that ability, and a transferable Win7 licence is worth much, MUCH more to me than a non-transferable W10 licence. Losing the transferabilty is a non-starter, for me. A genuine red line. Which is why I'm rather miffed at MS's reluctance to be entirely clear, up-front and unambiguous about it, and why I'm not upgrading until/unless I get official (non-blog) clarification from them as to post-upgrade status of licences.

[watercooled]

As above one of my remaining questions is with regard to license transferability. I'd hope any upgrade would inherit the license of the OS you're upgrading from e.g. Win7 retail which you could move between devices.

[scaryjim]

... I'd hope any upgrade would inherit the license of the OS you're upgrading from e.g. Win7 retail which you could move between devices.

I don't see why it should inherently take on the license terms of a previous version, tbh - you're choosing to make an upgrade which will have its own EULA. I'd expect the terms in the new EULA to replace all terms in the previous EULA, as you're no longer using the previous software so its EULA is no longer relevant.

I would hope MS would provide some support/incentive for people who've previously bought full retail copies of an OS specifically to take advantage of the ability to transfer them between devices, but I can also easily see them not doing if that model no longer fits their intentions for Windows going forward (and it looks a lot like it doesn't). If that is the case, the simple answer is don't upgrade retail copies of previous versions of Windows. it's frustrating, but I guess I'll somehow live with my HTPC being on Windows 7 for another 5 years

[nitro912gr]

I don't want my windows to be locked on hardware, I upgrade all the time something, and what if my mobo just die as it have done in the past? Or I get the windows now and then upgrade cpu,mobo,ram combo as usual?

[Percy1983]

Looks like my HTPC may stay 7 for a while with the removal media centre.

The problem with hardware changes is I run 3 PCs, a business/gaming/personal, a business and htpc.

Now parts get swapped between the 3 as upgrades happen to which I could loose all 3 licenses in one swoop if tied to hardware.

I am certainly not upgrading until we have the full details on these things.

[HavoCnMe]

This is starting to remind me of Kingsman: The Secret Service. "Come get your free copy!" JMO

[DanceswithUnix]

I don't want my windows to be locked on hardware, I upgrade all the time something, and what if my mobo just die as it have done in the past? Or I get the windows now and then upgrade cpu,mobo,ram combo as usual?

Traditionally you are allowed to maintain a PC with even a basic OEM license, so: You can't upgrade a motherboard in a locked down license machine, but if the board fails and due to the age of the old one something more up to date had to be purchased to repair the machine, then that is fine. Will probably require a phone activation though.

[watercooled]

I don't see why it should inherently take on the license terms of a previous version, tbh - you're choosing to make an upgrade which will have its own EULA. I'd expect the terms in the new EULA to replace all terms in the previous EULA, as you're no longer using the previous software so its EULA is no longer relevant.

I don't mean use the same EULA word-for-word, just inherit the license type i.e. ability to transfer for retail copies as has traditionally been the case for Windows upgrades. Forcing people to buy a whole new license every time they upgrade would go down like a lead balloon for a lot of people.

[ZaO]

So I assume you lose the licence to your previous OS when you upgrade?

And what about us people that like to upgrade hardware often - are we going to have to keep buying new licences or what? I mean, not that I would ever buy the licence more than once. But just wondering what we're expected to do..?