Microsoft will give away Windows 10 to all Windows Insider testers

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This 'will they – won't they' saga has at last come to an end.

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Read more.

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Originally Posted by HEXUS

This 'will they – won't they' saga has at last come to an end.

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Until they flip flop again.

weren't they giving away windows 10 everyone already?

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Originally Posted by Smikis

weren't they giving away windows 10 everyone already?

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only to people who have non pirated versions of win7/8... This here is actually properly free.

To be frank no amount of fee stuff would compel me to sign up for a MSA, privacy matters.

Hmm I'm worried about privacy issues too, for that reason I've always used a local account when installing Windows. Has anyone more clever than me drudged through the privacy statement properly?

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Originally Posted by Corky34

To be frank no amount of fee stuff would compel me to sign up for a MSA, privacy matters.

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I'm inclined to agree. At the very least, it requires a VERY careful reading of exactly what the MSA terms and conditions are, in respect to what data you authorise MS to harvest, and what you authorise them to do with it, and who you authorise them to divulge it to, and under what circumstances they can/can't divulge it. Assuming you, that being the individual user taking advantage of this, care about their privacy. I do, and a lot, but some don't or not much.

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Originally Posted by HEXUS

Surely such generosity will help Microsoft on its goal to 1 billion Windows 10 devices and will be a welcome reward to those who have dedicated a spare PC to testing the various builds ...

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Is it generosity?

It entirely depends on what MS meant when they said, months ago , that they're changing how they "monetise" Windows.

One way is to charge for new versions. Another is to, using whatever techniques are necessary, to build a huge installed userbase all of whom have signed up to a user agreement that allows MS to harvest personal data and monetise that data.

Another is to provide the OS free but then sell 'optional' services, be it cloud storage or whatever, off the back of it. Yet another would be a subscription model.

Currently, we don't know where MS are going with "changing how we monetize", but we do know they are going somewhere, and it could be any of the above, or some mix of some variation of the above. But it isn't the old "buy licences or licence upgrades" model.

So is this so-called generosity actually generous, or is it simply another step in the direction of whatever that changed monetisation strategy is?

My attitude is rather that of a cynic. MS is not, never has been and almost certainly never will be a charity. or, for that matter, a social enterprise working for the betterment of society. It's a business, with shareholders to answer to, and if it's changing monetisation strategy, it's doing so because it thinks it's in Microsoft's vested best-interest to do so, not because it's "generous".

Do banks provide "free" current accounts because they're nice people, really? Or do they do it because they make their money from those accounts in other ways? I said I was a bit cynical, but if we answer that question about bank's motivation correctly, we'll have the answer to how "generous" these "free" Insider-upgrades, that require MS accounts actually are.

Personally, I am NOT using Win10 at all if, repeat IF a requirement proves to be an MS account with grossly intrusive privacy implications. I am NOT agreeing to the kinds of nosiness that the Insider EULA imposes, those that may be justified to a degree for development purposes . If that same nosiness carries over to the final 'retail' EULA, then that alone kills future Windows versions for me, and almost certainly irrevocably. It will be enough to detetmine a switch to Linux, and once switched, I can't imagine what would induce me to switch back.

Ultimately, a lot comes down to "do I trust MS"? The answer to that is "about as much as I trust banks", which is barely at all, and a LARGE part of the reason is the way MS have been so coy, evasive and squirrelly about exactly what "changing monetisation" actually means.

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Originally Posted by Bane2087

Hmm I'm worried about privacy issues too, for that reason I've always used a local account when installing Windows. Has anyone more clever than me drudged through the privacy statement properly?

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I wouldn't claim to be more clever than you, but I've read the privacy section of the Insider Preview version carefully, and it's extremely intrusive. But some of that may be necessary for development reasons.

What we don't yet have is the EULA, or the privacy section, for the final 'release' version. So it's hard to know whether it'll be the same, privacy-wise, or scaled back significantly on intrusiveness.

The jury is awaiting evidence to base a decision on.

So is it too late to install the test version now and get the final version for free? I'll bite the bullet of privacy invasion for a few weeks if that's the case :P

Then again, what terms are you under when they give you the free retail version? Are they still allowed to snoop on you in the same way? Does the test version licence/terms tag along with it?

does this mean if i'm running it in a VM, and upgrade, i can then later do a clean actual install on that PC for free?

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Originally Posted by Unique

does this mean if i'm running it in a VM, and upgrade, i can then later do a clean actual install on that PC for free?

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Yes :)

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Originally Posted by Pleiades

Yes :)

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Unless MS say otherwise, in which case, no.

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

Until they flip flop again.

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Let's see - free to legitimate 7 and 8.1 users... now free to everyone... yep, sounds like a flip flop to me.

I'm afraid this article is a day late and a dollar short, the paragraph you mention was edited yesterday by Microsoft and now says you still need a legal Window 7 or 8.1 license for a free upgrade.

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Originally Posted by ZaO

So is it too late to install the test version now and get the final version for free? I'll bite the bullet of privacy invasion for a few weeks if that's the case :P

Then again, what terms are you under when they give you the free retail version? Are they still allowed to snoop on you in the same way? Does the test version licence/terms tag along with it?

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In theory, you have until July 29th to install and register an account. I don't think I'd wait that long, though.

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Originally Posted by jezza9

I'm afraid this article is a day late and a dollar short, the paragraph you mention was edited yesterday by Microsoft and now says you still need a legal Window 7 or 8.1 license for a free upgrade.

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If you aren't participating in the Insider program, you will need a legit license to upgrade 7 or 8.1 to 10. If you're running the preview, the change from preview to RTM is permanent, and free. You're mixing two different programs.

Just out of interest how do Microsoft know if your activation is pirated?

Microsoft seem hell bent on following a similar path to the Apple model.
Apple are a hardware manufacturer who give away the OS (software) for free so i think a logical path for Microsoft who are a software manufacturer is to give away the hardware for free. :-)

So, I am running a legit version of Windows 7. I upgrade to Windows 10. And decided that meh, don't like it. Can I re-install Windows 7?

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Originally Posted by GuidoLS

If you aren't participating in the Insider program, you will need a legit license to upgrade 7 or 8.1 to 10. If you're running the preview, the change from preview to RTM is permanent, and free. You're mixing two different programs.

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So where in the updated blog post does it say Windows 10 will be free for insiders and they will receive a fully activated version? The controversial words which caused all the fuss of the RTM remaining activated after updating from the preview have been removed. Those tweets were posted before the article was changed.

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Once available on July 29th, you do not need an MSA to upgrade Windows 10 on your Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 PCs if they are not receiving Insider Preview builds. You will not be required to use an MSA on new PCs that come with Windows 10 preinstalled or clean installed from media. Some features in Windows 10 do require an MSA to use, such as downloading apps in the Windows Store.

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No account required for upgraders, unless you want to use the app store (and, by extension, using some of the apps, which are quite clearly labeled on any number of topics, such as MSA required, XBLive account required, ad supported, etc) and none of which are even remotely close to being required for operation.

So the more simple answer is, if you don't want to make a Microsoft Account, upgrade one (or more) of your legitimate 7 or 8.1 licenses, with the knowledge that there are certain parts of the overall environment you will not have access to until you create such an account. Notice I said environment and not OS. The items in the app store are not part of the OS. They aren't required. Most of them aren't even worth the time to be called optional, although I do rather like the MS Jigsaw puzzle game. It also likely means that you won't be able to do the whole XBone streaming thing without some sort of account, but then again, you need an account to run the XBone online, so six to one, half dozen to the other.

As far as being required to have an MSA to upgrade from Insider to RTM, you more or less have to have an account to acquire the software *from Microsoft*. I won't discuss the legality of acquiring it through other methods. You don't have to have one to install it, or make a local account. I don't know if it will upgrade without one - when I installed it on a fresh PC to see if you could do a local account, I didn't bother to check, because I had no intention of leaving it on that machine - I'll only do so much for free, and these are the kinds of questions that the staff writers at Hexus could easily answer if they'd take the time to do it. I'd be truly shocked if they didn't have at least a machine or 3 either sitting in a corner, or readily available after some minor assembly.

Finally, the Tech Editor over at Ars is Peter Bright, Twitter handle be darned. It's the little things that make all the difference.

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Originally Posted by jezza9

So where in the updated blog post does it say Windows 10 will be free for insiders and they will receive a fully activated version? The controversial words which caused all the fuss of the RTM remaining activated after updating from the preview have been removed. Those tweets were posted before the article was changed.

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Windows Insiders running the Windows 10 Insider Preview (Home and Pro editions) with their registered MSA connected to their PC will receive the final release build of Windows 10 starting on July 29th. This will come as just another flight. I’ve gotten a lot of questions from Windows Insiders about how this will work if they clean installed from ISO. As long as you are running an Insider Preview build and connected with the MSA you used to register, you will receive the Windows 10 final release build. Once you have successfully installed this build, you will also be able to clean install on that PC from final media if you want to start over fresh.

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There are no qualifiers. Other than having an MSA. This is NOT part of the 7/8.1 upgrade program. It might help if they did a better job at separating out the two, but I'm guessing that if they did, there'd be yet another conspiracy theory popping up, so they're just leaving well enough alone.

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Originally Posted by TooNice

So, I am running a legit version of Windows 7. I upgrade to Windows 10. And decided that meh, don't like it. Can I re-install Windows 7?

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Educated speculation -

You were able to downgrade from 8/8.1 to 7. It was a popular feature. It's a safe bet that it will continue. Otherwise, there's no official word.

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Originally Posted by GuidoLS

There are no qualifiers. Other than having an MSA. This is NOT part of the 7/8.1 upgrade program. It might help if they did a better job at separating out the two, but I'm guessing that if they did, there'd be yet another conspiracy theory popping up, so they're just leaving well enough alone.

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I believe Microsoft have stated before a while back that Insiders will receive the full RTM version, but qualified that by saying you still need to have a valid Win 7 or 8 license to fully activate it. This just looks like them saying you will need to also be in the Insider program to do it.

i would certainly agree that Microsoft's wording has been awful, not just here but when this story also appeared in similar form on the web a few months back after another iffy statement, and also the Windows will be free for pirates debacle as well. With their terrible usage of words (which is unforgivable since they are an american company), people really shouldn't try and second guess any statements Microsoft make unless it's totally clear and unambiguous.

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Originally Posted by TooNice

So, I am running a legit version of Windows 7. I upgrade to Windows 10. And decided that meh, don't like it. Can I re-install Windows 7?

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I think it's highly likely MS will look to tie everyone down to Win10. Reading through the waffle and considering the hefty amount of weasel words used by various people at MS, I get the distinct impression MS want to bind people on Win10 so they can cut support for the other operating systems ASAP.

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Originally Posted by stefan_965

Just out of interest how do Microsoft know if your activation is pirated?

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One example - people thought that by not installing a certain update on 7, their install would be perceived as completely legit, and for the most part, that is/was true, with one minor caveat - it's not rocket science to query the system to see if that particular update has been installed. MS has never (to my knowledge) actually accused any single user of piracy - they just flash a warning that your Windows install may be counterfeit, giving the 'end user' the opportunity to make things right without any repercussion.

Or, to put it another way, if you're playing a game of Marco Polo, and someone yells out Marco, and you respond with Table Tennis, people will look at you sort of cross-eyed.

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Originally Posted by jigger

I think it's highly likely MS will look to tie everyone down to Win10. Reading through the waffle and considering the hefty amount of weasel words used by various people at MS, I get the distinct impression MS want to bind people on Win10 so they can cut support for the other operating systems ASAP.

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/cue the Darth Vader walk-out music....

Because supporting WinXP for 20+ years was an incredibly good financial investment for MS... and they're legally obligated to support Win7 until 2020, and 8.1 until 2023 - so not exactly ASAP.

I don't mean to be nit-picking here, but Gabriel did not fully confirm the 'forever' of Bright's question with his reply. I am reading this and still believe I'll end up buying Windows 10 at some point despite my two PCs with eligible Windows 7 versions. This is mainly because MS has not yet unequivocally stated weather or not the free upgrade is bound to hardware or not. It shouldn't but it seems like it is. I hope it's not. I'd feel cheated by MS if they cancel my eligibility whenever I upgraded a core part of my PC.

Still, I am switching over and now even consider reinstalling that latest insider build. I left the insider program some weeks back because it became to much of a hassle and the bugs were annoying. I don't want to feel screwed over by MS; it feels like I will be, however.

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Originally Posted by GuidoLS

In theory, you have until July 29th to install and register an account. I don't think I'd wait that long, though.

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Roger that. Going to signup with a fake name this week ;)

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Originally Posted by j0n4s82

I don't mean to be nit-picking here, but Gabriel did not fully confirm the 'forever' of Bright's question with his reply. I am reading this and still believe I'll end up buying Windows 10 at some point despite my two PCs with eligible Windows 7 versions. This is mainly because MS has not yet unequivocally stated weather or not the free upgrade is bound to hardware or not. It shouldn't but it seems like it is. I hope it's not. I'd feel cheated by MS if they cancel my eligibility whenever I upgraded a core part of my PC.

Still, I am switching over and now even consider reinstalling that latest insider build. I left the insider program some weeks back because it became to much of a hassle and the bugs were annoying. I don't want to feel screwed over by MS; it feels like I will be, however.

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OEM licenses have ALWAYS been machine bound, period. Retail licenses have always been one at a time limited - period. I believe, without any official word to base things on, that the 'free to rtm' version is going to be the same license as the OEM license - machine bound, for life. I don't see any reason why MS would change their OEM licensing agreements after 20+ years, nor do I see where anyone who is doing a free upgrade on an OEM machine feels entitled to move that license to another machine. I can see being allowed to revert, and that's already a standard 'feature'.

The only real issue I see as being a possibility is if someone wants to revert from 10 Pro back to 7 Ultimate - although I suspect that case is going to be less than 1 in 100,000 or less, as the average user had absolutely NO use for Ultimate, and truth be told, 99% of the power users didn't, either. And once again, I fail to see any indication that MS is going to change their licensing for the retail editions. One machine at a time.

I can't seem to downgrade back to win8.1 because win10 seems to think my original user has been deleted (which isn't true) and just declines downgrading lol. "useful" feature it is!

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Originally Posted by aniilv

I can't seem to downgrade back to win8.1 because win10 seems to think my original user has been deleted (which isn't true) and just declines downgrading lol. "useful" feature it is!

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New releases are always filled with "useful" features, personally I won't be upgrading until I actively have to, unless DX12 is a substantial improvement and even then only when DX11 starts being insufficient, I personally just find upgrading OS too much of a risk most the time. If its not unwanted features its things not working as planned so I just stick to installing new when it comes to changing OS.

Just a follow up -

There's been a retraction of sorts over on Ars - atm, Mr. Bright is saying the change in information is due to a change on the MS website. There's a very real possibility that the change on the MS website was due to what may be politely called erroneous reporting on the part of Mr. Bright. As this is the weekend, we probably won't see any clarification, officially, until tomorrow at the earliest.

So, as of right now, we're right back to the we have no idea position we were in before this broke. I've said before I didn't care overly much for his 'reporting'. I've said that here. Now you have an example of why. I've also said that using Twitter as a primary means of communications was pathetic. Now you have an example of why that's obvious, too.

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Originally Posted by aniilv

I can't seem to downgrade back to win8.1 because win10 seems to think my original user has been deleted (which isn't true) and just declines downgrading lol. "useful" feature it is!

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You installed a beta over a production install, and I'm guessing sans the benefit of a backup. This was a bad idea... I'm sure others will inform you as to why this was a bad idea.

What about the re-activation if hardware fails such as SSD and CPU, and does it stay free After 12 months as I have heard its going to be subscription based after 12 months..

Come on Microsoft couch up the proper details of this wonderful offer

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Originally Posted by c12038

What about the re-activation if hardware fails such as SSD and CPU, and does it stay free After 12 months as I have heard its going to be subscription based after 12 months..

Come on Microsoft couch up the proper details of this wonderful offer

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As far as I'm aware, the subscription thing is speculation, based on the fact that MS said it's "changing how we monetise Windows" without explaining what they meant by that. Subscription is one possibility, but if so, probably in the longer term.

As for 12 months, anything upgraded within 12 months is free for the life of that system/device. But unless they extend that offer, any device upgraded after the 12 months expires won't be eligible for a free upgrade.

You also should be able to upgrade components, like HD or SSD, without issue, but upgrading motherboard/CPU may be enough to signal the end of the "life of the device".

The real question I want Microsoft to answer is what they consider the "lifetime of a device" to be, my suspicion is that it maybe handled in a similar fashion as Windows 8 was, in that when Windows 10.1 is released it will start the 2 year countdown for the end of life for Windows 10, most likely Windows 10.1 will also be a free upgrade.

But as is the way of the world Microsoft could change that any time they like, just like they reserve the right to change the terms of having a MSA, if you don't agree to those new terms you have to stop using the service or product and lose access to all the data associated with them.

As someone said to me "I liked smart phone X better than my existing one, but didn't buy it because I have to much invested in my current phone"

Still Windows 7 is very, very good. So no need for upgrade.

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Originally Posted by GuidoLS

Educated speculation -

You were able to downgrade from 8/8.1 to 7. It was a popular feature. It's a safe bet that it will continue. Otherwise, there's no official word.

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I thought with 8/8.1 you could only downgrade to 7 if you were running at least 8 Pro. With previous versions anything was downgrade allowed even Home editon. This was supposed to be why Pro sales were better on 8 than they were on 7, people who would have had 7 home opted for 8 pro to allow downgrade.

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Originally Posted by Corky34

The real question I want Microsoft to answer is what they consider the "lifetime of a device" to be, my suspicion is that it maybe handled in a similar fashion as Windows 8 was, in that when Windows 10.1 is released it will start the 2 year countdown for the end of life for Windows 10, most likely Windows 10.1 will also be a free upgrade.

But as is the way of the world Microsoft could change that any time they like, just like they reserve the right to change the terms of having a MSA, if you don't agree to those new terms you have to stop using the service or product and lose access to all the data associated with them.

As someone said to me "I liked smart phone X better than my existing one, but didn't buy it because I have to much invested in my current phone"

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Well, quite. Exactly. Precisely.

As I pointed out in the last (I think) Win 10 speculation thread, the actual quote from MS wasn't "lifetime of the device" but "supported life of the device". Which exactly makes your point.

Whether they'll be such a thing as 10.1 or not is unclear. MS seem to be suggesting they'll move away from version numbers to a constantly and silently upgraded (in the background) base, intending that everyone should be on the same code base, which is just "Windows".

There is a downside to that, though. I know companies that (currently) don't allow ANY upgrades that have not been tested carefully before going into "live" environments, and feedback over losing control over that has not been positive. Others work from a stable, known base and only install critical and security updates, or patches specifically for software they use. And these aren't big corporates but small businesses for whom their PCs are mission-critical.

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Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix

I thought with 8/8.1 you could only downgrade to 7 if you were running at least 8 Pro. With previous versions anything was downgrade allowed even Home editon. This was supposed to be why Pro sales were better on 8 than they were on 7, people who would have had 7 home opted for 8 pro to allow downgrade.

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Most of the downgrades I did for people were on OEM machines from places like WalMart and Best Buys, and were Home licenses, and went straight to the normal 7 Home license with no issue. Of the 3 Pro downgrades I did, 2 had some pain in the rear activation issues that turned out to be licenses that were stolen from the business in question (store displays that were sold off the shelf, with no protection of the license while it was on display). In all cases but one, it was a downgrade from 8.0 to 7, but I'm not sure that made any difference.

I cannot recall anyone downgrading from 7 to Vista, and I may be misremembering, but IIRC, you could only downgrade from Vista Business back to XP Pro, but that's been a while, and definitely doesn't apply now.

I'm not entirely sure how it will work this time. This wouldn't technically be a downgrade, but a revert. If people are doing an upgrade from 7/8.1 to 10, there should be a windows.old folder, as there has been for years. If people are doing a clean install, that folder won't exist, so it would require the original media - that's not new, either, and at this point, there's been no indication that the upgraded license has been locked to the new OS (but, as Saracen has pointed out, quite correctly, there's been no indication that it WON'T be locked to the new OS, either. We don't know yet)

I'm going to go on the theory that the licensing scheme will remain the same, and if you upgrade with a 7 or 8.1 license, and wish to re-install, you should be able to, as long as it's the same machine (if it's OEM) or on a unique machine (if it's retail). Doing a downgrade (or an upgrade, for that matter) on a production machine is a recipe for disaster, and one I'd have to be paid very well to do for someone.

This is good news, to a point. It will encourage more people to use windows 10 meaning hopeful it will become more standard than windows 8.

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Originally Posted by GuidoLS

OEM licenses have ALWAYS been machine bound, period. Retail licenses have always been one at a time limited - period. I believe, without any official word to base things on, that the 'free to rtm' version is going to be the same license as the OEM license - machine bound, for life. I don't see any reason why MS would change their OEM licensing agreements after 20+ years, nor do I see where anyone who is doing a free upgrade on an OEM machine feels entitled to move that license to another machine.

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So just to be clear, retail means I bought the CD separately from a PC? I bought my two Win 7 licenses via ebay; respectively, the stickers say Win 7 Home Prem OA and Win 7 Ult OA. They are DELL labeled disks. My quick research says OA means nothing but OEM. If I understand your comment correctly, I shouldn't be able to install and activate the DELL branded versions. They are hardware bound. But they are activated. And I know I can install them on any other ONE machine.

If MS licensing policy remains the same I should be able to (re-)install the Win 10 RTM version with a downloaded ISO on any other ONE machine whenever I happen to replace one or both of the two PCs. So OA/OEM versions don't seem to be hardbound to any PC, but bound to only ONE machine at a time.

And still, I am wondering what would be of more benefit now? Upgrading from an eligible Windows version or from the latest insider preview? What exactly do I gain from upgrading from an insider version? That's not clear to me at all.

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Originally Posted by j0n4s82

So just to be clear, retail means I bought the CD separately from a PC? I bought my two Win 7 licenses via ebay; respectively, the stickers say Win 7 Home Prem OA and Win 7 Ult OA. They are DELL labeled disks. My quick research says OA means nothing but OEM. If I understand your comment correctly, I shouldn't be able to install and activate the DELL branded versions. They are hardware bound. But they are activated. And I know I can install them on any other ONE machine.

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Technically, your licenses aren't really legal, although it's doubtful MS will come looking for you over it. They may well go after the people that sold you an OEM key, but that's a different story. To be 100% clear, retail means you purchased your license either through a valid re-seller or MS directly, with the retailer being the primary method, and along with the license, you get 'genuine' media, complete with a happy little hologram and a shiny dvd.

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If MS licensing policy remains the same I should be able to (re-)install the Win 10 RTM version with a downloaded ISO on any other ONE machine whenever I happen to replace one or both of the two PCs. So OA/OEM versions don't seem to be hardbound to any PC, but bound to only ONE machine at a time.

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I wouldn't bet my house on that - just because you can install with an OEM license on a machine other than what it was initially authorized with, that doesn't mean you are within the licensing agreement.

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And still, I am wondering what would be of more benefit now? Upgrading from an eligible Windows version or from the latest insider preview? What exactly do I gain from upgrading from an insider version? That's not clear to me at all.

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If you're only going to be putting 10 on one machine, upgrade from the insider to the RTM, and then do a clean install. If at all possible, do NOT upgrade from one OS version to another. At a guess, there is an 85% or so success rate - but if you hit that 15% fail rate, it's going to be catastrophic. Along with that, there's no guarantee that everything on your Windows 7 install will be compatible with Win 10. I guarantee Media Center isn't.

The benefit from upgrading from the Insider to the RTM is simple - it's just a patch, and you're done. Especially if you're like me, and have moved/installed much of your regular usage over to a Win 10 machine, to the point where you're using it as a daily driver, which I am, other than browsing, because once I make the permanent changeover, I will no longer be using FireFox or Chrome. That won't happen until Spartan/Edge is capable of using Chrome extensions, and there's no clear date on that.

Edit - add

After all of that, don't take that as me saying to NOT use your OEM keys. You did pay for them, and if there was anything illegal, or even shady, it was on the part of the seller. The good thing about Ebay is you have a receipt, so on that 1 in 10billion chance MS gives you the stink-eye, you have backup stating that you were told you were doing the right thing, with proof. Just don't go activating them on multiple computers over and over again - that WILL get their attention.

Not sure if this is desperation on Microsoft's part, or the Drug dealer philosophy of 'give them the free samples, and get them hooked for life'.

Either way, I'm still quite happy with Win7.

So many posts on win 10 and have forgotten if someone knew why they were giving win 10 upgrade free.....there usually is a reason for everything unless MS comes under the "Chaos theory". :)

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Originally Posted by excalibur2

So many posts on win 10 and have forgotten if someone knew why they were giving win 10 upgrade free.....there usually is a reason for everything unless MS comes under the "Chaos theory". :)

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*conjures up his best Master Po -

Ah, grasshopper - the upgrade, despite all appearances, is free in theory only. You see, young one, we, as in the readership of Hexus - we shall probably reap the benefits of the 'free' upgrade, and that is it - we shall install our own programs and games to do our bidding. But keep in mind, we are but a small minority in the big picture, and we shall be installing this 'gift' on to the machines of our parents, and grandparents, and others who may not be as technically inclined as we, and while we will find no purpose for the App Store, they will bask in the uselessness of said product. Pretty pretty Mahjong. So beautiful solitaire. Superbly enticing Spark. All minor entertainments that are given for 'free', but fraught with inducements to give money, such as deluxe editions, or no more advertisements, or access to the creations of others, and so much more.

Then there are those that are less willing to part with what they have, young one. They feel what they have is perfectly fine, and they are correct. But eventually, they'll decide to see what all of the fuss was about, but unfortunately, they'll have waited longer than that free turning of the calendar, and must part with ~150 of whatever monetary unit they trade in to do so. And never discount the intellect of the MS creature - it has learned its lesson well, and will have adapted to those nefarious cretins that alter their installations so as to pretend they are legitimate. It will eventually come to pass, but not quickly. And in frustration, and in their desire to obtain the fabled DX12, they too will succumb to the required parting of the cash.

And, of course, there are the businesses and corporations, which have always been the bread and butter for said goods - they will have to pay for said goodness from day one, and in larger amounts of the local currency - after all, we peons really are a very small part of a very large picture.

*End Master Po

Or, they could just be trying to get everyone under one umbrella more quickly than they did with 7 and 8/8.1, and this is the easiest way to do it. It's probably significantly cheaper to maintain a single version of Windows than it is to maintain 4.5. I'm willing to bet it has very little to do with generosity, and much more to do with expediency. That it's, IMO, significantly faster in Beta form than 7 is in a mature form, on supposedly lesser hardware is just a plus for me. I may not look a gift horse in the mouth, but I won't turn down a free lunch, either. And we're supposed to be the tech savvy here - *I* know how to watch my house.

Which free lunch, though, Guido?

Problem is, Cafe MS is offering a free lunch, for a limited period, but they won't tell you what's in the lunch, whereas Cafe Linux, right opposite cafe MS, has been offering a free lunch menu for years. And indeed, Cafe Linux offers not just a choice of one free item for your lunch, but a variety of tempting flavours and dishes, all free.

Yet another update, from the mind of Gabe Aul - I think this one makes a lot more sense, and is a LOT more difficult to misinterpret.

Quote:

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Friday’s post was intended to clarify how the Windows Insider Program will proceed, and in attempting to do so created some unintended confusion. I sincerely apologize for that and will try to separate them more clearly below in order to provide more clarity.

The crux of it is this:

Do you want to continue as a Windows Insider and keep getting preview builds after 7/29?
Or do you want to upgrade your Genuine Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 system that has been getting Windows 10 Insider Preview builds to the 7/29 release and stop being an Insider?

“I want to continue as a Windows Insider!” (for the record, this is the part Mr. Bright kind of confused)

If you want to continue as a Windows Insider past 7/29 there is nothing you need to do. You’re already opted in and receiving builds in the Fast or Slow ring depending upon your selection. This is prerelease software and is activated with a prerelease key. Each individual build will expire after a time, but you’ll continue to receive new builds so by the time an older prerelease build expires you’ll have received a new one. Since we’re continuing the Windows Insider Program you’ll be able to continue receiving builds and those builds will continue to be activated under the terms of the Windows Insider Program. We provide ISOs for these builds for recovery from any significant problems, but they are still pre-release software. As part of the program we’ll upgrade Insiders to what is for all intents and purposes the same build as what other customers will get on 7/29, but that will be just another build for Insiders, and those who stay in the program will simply get the next build after as well.

“I want to opt out of the Windows Insider Program on 7/29.” - for pretty much everyone else

If you decide to opt-out of the program and upgrade to the 7/29 build you will be subject to exactly the same terms and conditions that govern the offer* that was extended to all Genuine Windows 7 and 8.1 customers. This is not a path to attain a license for Windows XP or Windows Vista systems. If your system upgraded from a Genuine Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 license it will remain activated, but if not, you will be required to roll back to your previous OS version or acquire a new Windows 10 license. If you do not roll back or acquire a new license the build will eventually expire.

It is our hope that the vast majority of Windows Insiders who have been with us since we announced the program last year will continue forward, and it was in that light that we authored the blog post about upcoming changes to the program. I regret that this caused confusion about who was or was not eligible for the Windows 10 upgrade offer, but hope that this helps to clarify.

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*More information about the free upgrade offer can be found at Windows.com.

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(their disclaimer, not mine).

On non-legitimate installations -

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Microsoft and our OEM partners know that many consumers are unwitting victims of piracy, and with Windows 10, we would like all of our customers to move forward with us together. While our free offer to upgrade to Windows 10 will not apply to Non-Genuine Windows devices, and as we’ve always done, we will continue to offer Windows 10 to customers running devices in a Non-Genuine state. In addition, in partnership with some of our valued OEM partners, we are planning very attractive Windows 10 upgrade offers for their customers running one of their older devices in a Non-Genuine state. Please stay tuned to learn more from our partners on the specifics of their offers.

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From version --> to version

Code:

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Windows 7
From Edition                                To Edition
Windows 7 Starter                      Windows 10 Home
Windows 7 Home Basic
Windows 7 Home Premium
---------------------------
Windows 7 Professional                      Windows 10 Pro
Windows 7 Ultimate

Windows 8
From Edition                                    To Edition
Windows Phone 8.1                      Windows 10 Mobile

Windows 8.1                                Windows 10 Home

Windows 8.1 Pro                              Windows 10 Pro
Windows 8.1 Pro for Students

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Can I reinstall Windows 10 on my computer after upgrading?

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Yes. Once you’ve upgraded to Windows 10 using the free upgrade offer, you will be able to reinstall, including a clean install, on the same device. You won’t need to purchase Windows 10 or go back to your prior version of Windows and upgrade again.

You’ll also be able to create your own installation media like a USB drive or DVD, and use that to upgrade your device or reinstall after you’ve upgraded.

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Will all my stuff be in the cloud?

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Your files are saved on the hard drive of your device by default. Windows 10 includes OneDrive which provides free storage space in the cloud; this is completely optional, but gives you the benefit of being able to access your personal files from anywhere.

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Media Center

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No.

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If there are any more questions, and there's a reasonable expectation that the answer will exist before 7/29 (or 29/7, or however you prefer to express your date), let me know, and I will see if I can find a legitimate, verifiable answer.

Questions I do not have answers to, nor have I found a legitimate, verifiable answer for -

1) Is my retail license locked to one machine forever upon upgrade
2) Status of how downgrades/reversions work

I realize there's a fair amount of MS dislike, and I don't begrudge anyone that. With that, please keep in mind that I'm just an end user, just like everyone else, and would appreciate the Q&A to be relatively snark free. If I don't/can't answer a question, it's not because I'm holding out. It's because I don't know, don't have a professional opinion (which I will express as such), or simply that such information doesn't exist yet.

(feel free to repost this anywhere else if appropriate, and/or sticky, etc - just let me know if it moves to a new neighborhood so I can keep up on any questions and answers that may arise.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saracen

Which free lunch, though, Guido?

Problem is, Cafe MS is offering a free lunch, for a limited period, but they won't tell you what's in the lunch, whereas Cafe Linux, right opposite cafe MS, has been offering a free lunch menu for years. And indeed, Cafe Linux offers not just a choice of one free item for your lunch, but a variety of tempting flavours and dishes, all free.

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Free for the most part, anyway (re: Linux). As nice as it would be if it was, Linux isn't for everyone. It's not an OS for the masses. Those of us in the community can't even agree on a desktop, let alone a lot of anything else. That it almost always just works is due to some very careful crafting, and some very vile language, early on and currently, by a very feisty Fin. Even the big kid on campus (Canonical) has had more splits than the average Hollywood relationship. We keep saying 'maybe in a couple of years', 'maybe in 5 years', etc etc. Maybe still isn't now, at least for everyone. It requires a tech savvy beyond what most gamers are willing to bother with. Grandma and grandpa don't care, so long as they can tweet, pin, post and Skype - the background doesn't much matter, and eventually, the phone will ring, just like it always does, and we go over and fix it. Windows or Linux, it doesn't matter. At least we know it won't be because of grandpa looking at skin flicks this time.

Yes - MS is late to the dance. Very late, in the minds of some, many of whom have no trust for MS or their motives. I've yet to see any bad intentions with this. That doesn't mean they won't be there later. I just don't know. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until such time as they violate that. It's not my job to convince anyone else to do otherwise, or change their mind.

There's 2 sayings - either of which could apply here. Go ugly early, or everyone is beautiful at closing time. I'm waiting until closing time this time around - it's costing me nothing but time.

This isn't a goer. Aul has had his mouth rinsed out and you won't get a freebie.

Nice to see some clarification, again. I think Microsoft really need to just arrange proper articles explaining whats going on, this whole thing has been the perfect example of why Twitter is only suitable for short announcements, you simply can't fit info into it without it ending up a giant mess.

We've had so many things "confirmed" and then outed as incorrect due to lack of info etc that its actually starting to get silly now.

The sceptic in me says these announcements via blogs, twitbook et'al are serving their purpose marvellously, looking back how many column inches have been devoted to Windows 10 over the months on various web sites because of misinterpreted announcements? :innocent:

Exactly. All of these 'mistakes' have ensured Microsoft have remained constantly in the publics eye, free of charge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eiamhere69

Exactly. All of these 'mistakes' have ensured Microsoft have remained constantly in the publics eye, free of charge.

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Two ways of looking at it I guess, depends if you buy into the any publicity is good publicity deal. To me it just seems more like poor communication and doesn't really instill much faith in their product for me, I'll agree their name gets around because of it though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GuidoLS

Free for the most part, anyway (re: Linux). As nice as it would be if it was, Linux isn't for everyone. It's not an OS for the masses. Those of us in the community can't even agree on a desktop, let alone a lot of anything else. That it almost always just works is due to some very careful crafting, and some very vile language, early on and currently, by a very feisty Fin. Even the big kid on campus (Canonical) has had more splits than the average Hollywood relationship. We keep saying 'maybe in a couple of years', 'maybe in 5 years', etc etc. Maybe still isn't now, at least for everyone. It requires a tech savvy beyond what most gamers are willing to bother with. Grandma and grandpa don't care, so long as they can tweet, pin, post and Skype - the background doesn't much matter, and eventually, the phone will ring, just like it always does, and we go over and fix it. Windows or Linux, it doesn't matter. At least we know it won't be because of grandpa looking at skin flicks this time.

Yes - MS is late to the dance. Very late, in the minds of some, many of whom have no trust for MS or their motives. I've yet to see any bad intentions with this. That doesn't mean they won't be there later. I just don't know. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until such time as they violate that. It's not my job to convince anyone else to do otherwise, or change their mind.

There's 2 sayings - either of which could apply here. Go ugly early, or everyone is beautiful at closing time. I'm waiting until closing time this time around - it's costing me nothing but time.

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I'm waiting too.

Not agreeing on desktop has advantages, though. Don't like one, use another. MS could learn from that. However you cut it, a LOT of people intensely disliked MUI, for different reasons. If MS had simply had a switch to select "classic" if people didn't like MUI, it would have disarmed a LOT of bad PR and adverse customer reaction. And, after all, despite MS initially pretending it wasn't possible, 3rd parties did it quickly enough.

MS has become (IMHO) stuck in the typical arrogant attitude if the behemoth, which is that THEY are so important that WE just have to accept whatever they throw at us. I have a newsflash for them - they aren't the only gane in town. Given their involvement with Big Blue, wecmight have thought they'd observe a lesson or two .... first, that a small company can clean your clock for you if you don't read the customer right, and secondly, that trying to force change, no matter how technically superior (like MCA), can backfire.

I can't see why several Linux distro's won't work just fine for your average mom and pop user. After all, you can download the distro (like a Win ISO), stick it on DVD or USB stick, like Windows, and install via a graphical installer and boot to a GUI. Once running, you can install many packages via a package manager, and for most day-to-day uses, you never need to use command-line, or monkey about under the hood.

Frankly, the hardest bit of the whole thing is deciding which distro to pick.

Primarily, the questions I still want answered, Guido, are the same ones you still want answered.

I would have liked just a tad more clarity on cloud storage, though, to the effect that data can't end up on the cloud, unless someone explicitly activates that capability. In other words, it can't happen accidentally because you misclicked on save location, etc. In other words, stuff being stored locally "by default" doesn't quite preclude it getting stored on the cloud accidentally. I would, however, assume that you do indeed have to manually activate the cloud capability, by opening/signing up for a cloud account, etc. .... which I will not do.

Oh, and sight of the final EULA, and especially privacy policy, is another red line for me, because I won't agree to the Insider EULA on anything beyond a test system. If the final EULA is as wide-open as the Insider one, nothing else about Win10 interests me because that, on it's own, is an absolute red line issue for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Corky34

The sceptic in me says these announcements via blogs, twitbook et'al are serving their purpose marvellously, looking back how many column inches have been devoted to Windows 10 over the months on various web sites because of misinterpreted announcements? :innocent:

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I don't view the blog posts as anything other than a low key way to semi-emulate the (now) Tim Cook and (prior) Steve Jobs talks, where they talked about what was going to happen, why, maybe when, and usually a lot of filler that said nothing. The key difference is, Tim Cook and Steve Jobs held the pens that signed the paychecks, and as much as he (Gabe) tries to keep things out there, in the only way he really has available, he's still just a shield carrier.

And like it or not, this last issue was as much, or even more, a case of several repeaters (I won't glorify them by calling them reporters) reading what they wanted to read into an announcement, and then have the cajones (not sure if the word I *WANT* to use in this case is considered offensive in the UK - it gets used a lot on American TV anymore...) to be 'offended' when what they repeated was incorrect, and playing that offense off on to the readership.

There's a LOT of stuff that tweaks me off about MS and their policies. I wouldn't be running a dual-boot otherwise, and at this point (and for years) I'm probably in a better position than even Saracen to just make a complete change. A quick GRUB change, a quick partition reboot, and done. But this isn't one of those cases. And people playing offended viewer aren't reading past the headlines. It's that simple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saracen

Primarily, the questions I still want answered, Guido, are the same ones you still want answered.

I would have liked just a tad more clarity on cloud storage, though, to the effect that data can't end up on the cloud, unless someone explicitly activates that capability. In other words, it can't happen accidentally because you misclicked on save location, etc. In other words, stuff being stored locally "by default" doesn't quite preclude it getting stored on the cloud accidentally. I would, however, assume that you do indeed have to manually activate the cloud capability, by opening/signing up for a cloud account, etc. .... which I will not do.

---

One Drive is active by default, but you do have to actively choose to save to it. There is also no way that I can see to make OneDrive as a default save spot (and there is an area in the settings where you can say what goes where - OneDrive is not an option anywhere). Also, you will have to enable the system to allow programs to use OneDrive independent of your input, and I cannot find a simple way to do that. It can be disabled completely relatively simply via a Group Policy change (which is also the only way I found to enable autonomous use). As it stands right now, OneDrive seems pretty mundane, and can be ignored if you choose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saracen

Oh, and sight of the final EULA, and especially privacy policy, is another red line for me, because I won't agree to the Insider EULA on anything beyond a test system. If the final EULA is as wide-open as the Insider one, nothing else about Win10 interests me because that, on it's own, is an absolute red line issue for me.

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Agreed. I'm just sort of curious how having multiple EULA's going at the same time is going to work, because I think I'm going to keep one machine active as a fast track beta machine. They're offering it for free, and I love to tinker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eiamhere69

Exactly. All of these 'mistakes' have ensured Microsoft have remained constantly in the publics eye, free of charge.

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MS is the biggest software company in the world, by almost 300%, over Oracle - and somehow, I think the blog gaffs are drawing a lot less real attention for MS than, say, the antics of Larry Ellison do for Oracle... they don't need the free attention. And on any given night, here in the US, there's at least 8 MS commercials, during primetime, on broadcast (read: free) tv. MS isn't hurting. Not even close.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saracen

I can't see why several Linux distro's won't work just fine for your average mom and pop user. After all, you can download the distro (like a Win ISO), stick it on DVD or USB stick, like Windows, and install via a graphical installer and boot to a GUI. Once running, you can install many packages via a package manager, and for most day-to-day uses, you never need to use command-line, or monkey about under the hood.

Frankly, the hardest bit of the whole thing is deciding which distro to pick.

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Agree 100%. I've turned a lot of people on to Mint (Mate) with machines that can handle it, LXLE with machines that can't. I like Mint because it's a bit more lightweight than Ubuntu, has a nicer tutorial, and when people ask what wireless USB dongle will work, I can name off 3 that I know our local WalMart and office stores sell, and they're golden. Funny thing is, the only distro I don't recommend is the one I use, and it's been modified so much over the years, I don't think I can replicate it again if I tried. (Slackware - original install for this incarnation was back in '03, when 9.1 was released. I guess I could do a fresh install one of these days.)

Sounds like I'd need to use the Group Policy editor, then, because I don't want it to be possible to save to OneDrive, even by accident .... like a guest user using it without my knowledge.

Does the fact of OneDrive being "active" also apply when running under a local account, not MS account? I'm not sure I can see how it could be, and of course, I don't want (or have) an MS account, and the more MS try to push us to have one, the more determined I get not to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saracen

Sounds like I'd need to use the Group Policy editor, then, because I don't want it to be possible to save to OneDrive, even by accident .... like a guest user using it without my knowledge.

Does the fact of OneDrive being "active" also apply when running under a local account, not MS account? I'm not sure I can see how it could be, and of course, I don't want (or have) an MS account, and the more MS try to push us to have one, the more determined I get not to.

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No - the 'local' account has no access to OneDrive. The icon disappears entirely (it also does this when off-line), and I've not been able to find it. But yes, I can see the desirability of turning it off full time. I've also found a pair of registry settings that were written for 8/8.1, but may serve the same purpose with 10 (on and off - just click the reg, like usual). I'll test them out first before I post them, but they'd also make a good alternative if someone wanted the ability to switch it on and off without digging through the GPE.

I intend on putting up a few how-to's over in the Windows subsection of the software sub by this weekend, and can put one up for that, too. It's not rocket science or anything, but the one how-to I did find was specifically intended for 8/8.1 and was pointing in the wrong direction for 10 (or, more accurately, a non-existent direction). Hopefully, they'll do people some good (they\'re primarily aimed at restoring functionality that disappeared back in either Vista or 7.

H\'mm So if you stay an insider after 29th July then your computer is open to MS "spying " and you have no rights? Any complaints and would be told by MS to buy retail or upgrade from win7\Win8?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GuidoLS

No - the 'local' account has no access to OneDrive. The icon disappears entirely (it also does this when off-line), and I've not been able to find it. But yes, I can see the desirability of turning it off full time. I've also found a pair of registry settings that were written for 8/8.1, but may serve the same purpose with 10 (on and off - just click the reg, like usual). I'll test them out first before I post them, but they'd also make a good alternative if someone wanted the ability to switch it on and off without digging through the GPE.

I intend on putting up a few how-to's over in the Windows subsection of the software sub by this weekend, and can put one up for that, too. It's not rocket science or anything, but the one how-to I did find was specifically intended for 8/8.1 and was pointing in the wrong direction for 10 (or, more accurately, a non-existent direction). Hopefully, they'll do people some good (they\'re primarily aimed at restoring functionality that disappeared back in either Vista or 7.

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Thanks for confirming that about local accounts. I couldn\'t imagine it wasn\'t that way, but it\'s nice to know.

The GPE issue is, in a way, very similar to whether MS allow us to disable MUI and revert to "classic", which is to say, do MS offer facilities/features, and let US decide if we want them or not, instead of trying to mould us to use our "devices" in a way that suits MS.

will they really give it our for free? I doubt

All this nonsense is becoming old, Microsoft just need to sell the damn thing for a fair straight up. Whats wrong with just selling the OS as per every other version.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jigger

All this nonsense is becoming old, Microsoft just need to sell the damn thing for a fair straight up. Whats wrong with just selling the OS as per every other version.

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People are happy on 7. The Steam Hardware survey shows as many XP users as all Mac OS version users added together. Chrome OS machines are starting to sell rather well.

They hacked off people with earlier gen phones and then again with Windows 8. Microsoft need users to stay relevant, if they had to pay users a fiver to get the latest Windows on machines then I'm sure they would.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix

People are happy on 7. The Steam Hardware survey shows as many XP users as all Mac OS version users added together. Chrome OS machines are starting to sell rather well.

They hacked off people with earlier gen phones and then again with Windows 8. Microsoft need users to stay relevant, if they had to pay users a fiver to get the latest Windows on machines then I'm sure they would.

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They'd have to pay me a lot more than a fiver to get me to upgrade my OS day one. But yes, this, Microsoft is trying to push as hard as possible to keep people on their newest OS, both due to their plans to change monetization and so the need for as many potential "customers" as possible and also just that they don't want to be stuck supporting old OS to the end of time (XP is still popular).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GuidoLS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j0n4s82

So just to be clear, retail means I bought the CD separately from a PC? I bought my two Win 7 licenses via ebay; respectively, the stickers say Win 7 Home Prem OA and Win 7 Ult OA. They are DELL labeled disks. My quick research says OA means nothing but OEM. If I understand your comment correctly, I shouldn't be able to install and activate the DELL branded versions. They are hardware bound. But they are activated. And I know I can install them on any other ONE machine.

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Technically, your licenses aren't really legal, although it's doubtful MS will come looking for you over it. They may well go after the people that sold you an OEM key, but that's a different story. To be 100% clear, retail means you purchased your license either through a valid re-seller or MS directly, with the retailer being the primary method, and along with the license, you get 'genuine' media, complete with a happy little hologram and a shiny dvd.

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When I bought them I didn't really think about OEM and retail. Ebay has OEM versions strewn all over it, here in Germany at least. If it was THAT illegal, it wouldn't be such a prevalent practice, or, rather, if MS cared much about their licence agreement they would have started to sic their lawyers on all the sellers. Isn't selling the OEM versions apart from hardware some kind of legal grey area? I think I remember reading something of that sort. As you say, however, it might just be unfeasible or unnecessary for MS to legally persecute the matter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jigger

All this nonsense is becoming old, Microsoft just need to sell the damn thing for a fair straight up. Whats wrong with just selling the OS as per every other version.

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They'll gladly take your money. It has the exact same price listed as Windows 8/8.1 and is already listed for pre-order on sites such as NewEgg, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j0n4s82

When I bought them I didn't really think about OEM and retail. Ebay has OEM versions strewn all over it, here in Germany at least. If it was THAT illegal, it wouldn't be such a prevalent practice, or, rather, if MS cared much about their licence agreement they would have started to sic their lawyers on all the sellers. Isn't selling the OEM versions apart from hardware some kind of legal grey area? I think I remember reading something of that sort. As you say, however, it might just be unfeasible or unnecessary for MS to legally persecute the matter.

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Back when I actually used to pay attention, MS seemed to have a threshold of just how many licenses were being sold per vendor before they started sending cease and desist letters. To the best of my knowledge, when MS actually sends one out, it's wise to pay attention. I've only heard of 2 cases where they have actually gone after a consumer - one was over 20 years ago, and the most recent was when a person tried activating what was a valid oem key pasted on the side of a display computer on over 100 other unique machines, which you'll have to admit is extreme.

Like I said, you bought them in good faith, so use them in good faith. If they don't activate, try the phone activation route. The only time I've heard of those efforts being denied was after massive usage in a very short time frame.

So do the insider testers get the free key or have MS cocked up again?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jigger

So do the insider testers get the free key or have MS cocked up again?

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22 posts ago. This thread... http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-news/3...ml#post3486998

Short answer - nothing is free, and only those calling themselves reporters ever claimed that Insiders would get it for free.

Sorry I somehow missed your post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j0n4s82

When I bought them I didn't really think about OEM and retail. Ebay has OEM versions strewn all over it, here in Germany at least. If it was THAT illegal, it wouldn't be such a prevalent practice, or, rather, if MS cared much about their licence agreement they would have started to sic their lawyers on all the sellers. Isn't selling the OEM versions apart from hardware some kind of legal grey area? I think I remember reading something of that sort. As you say, however, it might just be unfeasible or unnecessary for MS to legally persecute the matter.

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It depends where you live, in the EU it is legal to resell OEM licenses because there was a case that went to the EU court (Usedsoft vs Oracle) and the result was that company EULA's cannot prohibit you from reselling a license as long as it's only in use on one machine at a time. That is why you see so many people selling these kinds of licenses in Europe on sites like eBay, Amazon and in many other places, because it's allowed.