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And a Cease and Desist order was also issued against Gigabyte WaterForce cards.
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And a Cease and Desist order was also issued against Gigabyte WaterForce cards.
Can't see how they can get out of that, other than someone stumping up some cash.
I now wonder if this was expected and factored into the price.
Having had a quick look at the patents my first reaction was that I could not understand how they had been granted as they seem to me to be entirely obvious and there is clear prior art in the computer world (eg integrating pump and reservoir is an ancient idea going back to pool pumps)but the priority date for the patents are 2003 and 2005 respectively so my first reaction may not be correct.
Personally I do not buy into this closed loop water cooling. Watercooling only makes sense to me if you cool both CPU and GPU
INAL but as those patents (8245764 & 8240362) refer to a cooling system for CPU's could it be argued that GPU's aren't covered?
That fact that Asetek was granted this patent in the first place speaks volumes about how badly broken US patent laws are IMO.
This is exactly why we can't have nice things, suing each and every other person so companies can stay profitable or ahead.
ok.... why do they need to stop selling the item.
I'm no lawyer but it seems that Coolermaster are still allowed to make the aio but have to pay royalties/back payments to Asetek. So this implies Coolermaster can still sell the item to AMD/Gigabyte to use on their gpu as long as Asetek receives their royalties of 25.375% of this years sales for it all to be 'legal'.
Clearly this seems like it's more about getting the contract for the aio production.
The threat of halting sales is a legal tactic aimed at getting the plaintiff to pay up sharpish or settle out of court usually.Quote:
Originally Posted by LSG501
I'm with you on that opinion - maybe my memory is playing me false but didn't the Cray 2 (circa 1985) offer something called "immersion cooling" where the pump was in the reservoir? Failing that, as you say, there's enough examples of "prior art" in the non-computing field to make these "patents" extremely dubious.Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs150
I'm also confused how Asetek already successfully sued Coolermaster, yet now seemingly are able to go after Coolermaster's customers. Are these rapacious predators going to "do an MPAA" and start going after people who've installed Seidon and Nepton coolers in their PC's? Not that effects me since I'm currently using a Noctua air cooler.
I'm not impressed with Asetek, in my mind legal recourse invariably being the "refuge of a scoundrel" or at least for someone who can't compete on the technical level.
I disagree. CLC's make sense for the folks who's plumbing skills aren't up to the job of building a "proper" watercooling loop. :surrender: Also I'll point out that fitting a CLC is (reputedly) no more difficult than a large air cooler, yet to cool a graphics card means having to uninstall that cards supplied heatsink setup - not a job for the faint of heart? CLC's are also sold on the basis as being "fire and forget" devices - no need to monitor coolant level/refill etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs150
Interestingly enough I've been considering AIO/CLC setups for my next build, and both the EKWB and Swiftek units I've been steered towards are (a) cheaper than buying the equivalent set of parts separately, and (b) designed for CPU but have enough leeway to add a GFX loop later if you so desire.
Actually third point just occurred - you're assuming that the watercooled PC in question is used for something graphically demanding. I know of setups where this isn't the case and you end up needing a lot of cpu grunt, but a Geforce 950/960 is probably good enough to do what graphics you need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSG501
My GUESS (remembering that IANAL) is that the original rulings applied the royalties to specific infringing Coolermaster-branded products (probably by name), and that white-label offerings to OEMs weren't included. Asetek will need to demonstrate that the white-label coolers in the Fury X and other products are also infringing on the patents in question; of course that's relatively trivial if those products are direct derivatives of the named products that have already had royalty demands applied to them, but it will be a legal box that needs ticking. I believe there's also the risk of patents being revoked if the holders don't actively defend them, so NOT going after the vendors of white-label OEM products that might infringe the patents could weaken their claim against Coolermaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by crossy
Patent law (particularly in the US) is hugely convoluted; I'm pretty sure the entire system was dreamed up purely to keep patent lawyers busy (after all, who knows what they might get up to otherwise ;) ).
crossy: I guess we will agree to disagree on the merits of AIO closed loop water coolers, they are a great introduction to the world of water cooling but moving on to custom loops is easy. Of course with each generation of CPUs we get improved power efficiency so cooling the CPU gets easier.
Going back to the case and the patents it looks as though Asetek are winning on the basis of combining the pump and water block together rather than pump reservoir (the patents as usual have multiple claims) so that the pump fits on top of the heat producing component. In 2003 that may well have been sufficiently novel for a patent - in which case Asetek have every right to chase those who are infringing it.
Personally I am wary of attaching a pump directly to the motherboard or GPU. Pumps vibrate, and I would hate that vibration to damage the components - that is why I will always prefer a separate pump attached to the case (admittedly with dampening materials)
Why is it that CoolIT haven't come under the same fire? They seem almost identical to Asetek's designs
Asetek patents is on the integration of the pump into the chip block which is lame it all base a round fish aquarium and other tech, I don't know what the hell the Patented Office was thinking as is no diff then the electric water cooled motor with water pump that on gear reduction system mount dircet to motor and techly is no diff the how a hot rodded engine is cooled by using directly mount electric motor to drive a water pump impeller on water pump housing which has been around lot longer.
But if all you stop think about what dose the chip do make energy heat the cooler all it dose take alway that heat by transfer thur a radiator, to me it no diff the mechanical power energy heat by gas/diesel engine which around for 100 years.
A new use for an existing technology is fair game for patenting these days even if it's bleeding obvious you've just got to be the first one to file the paperwork.
So fish tank tech / automotive tech in a computer is entirely defend-able and different.
Trolls exist out there patenting all sorts of combinations of tech and uses in the hope that one day someone else will think it's a good idea and they can use it as a cash cow.
Well, if it's their invention, they should be asked and payed first, before using their discoveries or technology. Too bad this didn't happen to big companies.
AMD responds:
http://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/...-cnd-on-fury-x
Quote:
“We are aware that Asetek has sued Cooler Master. While we defer to Cooler Master regarding the details of the litigation, we understand that the jury in that case did not find that the Cooler Master heat sink currently used with the Radeon Fury X infringed any of Asetek’s patents.”
Cat, I think you cut short that quote too soon. Does it continue "so Asetek can go jog on" ?
Mine was easy enough to set up, sure... but it's not something most of my gaming friends would be confident doing themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs150
Even so, it was nerve-wracking as heck getting the GPU blocks on. I've had to help a friend do his because, despite being a long-time experienced builder and overclocker, the possibility of knackering £2000 worth of graphics cards was making his hands shake!!
My loop also cost me about £400 in all, whereas a pair of decent AIOs would have been less than half that... and even less in the sales!
The best part of AIOs is the plug & play aspect.
Having two separate AIOs for CPU/GU means you can swap one out without having to drain and re-jig your loops. It also means you don't have to buy expensive blocks every time you upgrade.
I'd never go back now I'm properly w/d'ed, but as a simple solution and for the money, my AIO was great!
Funny enough i do not see why the hel they could claim a patent on this ancient way of cooling anything. The whole patent world is a joke, colors, words everything gets patented just voor greed sakes (a sick system)
BTW i disagree fully on wanting to have a cpu and gpu loop, thats only handy for those who do not have a real machine ;)
I had tons of trouble keeping my system cool enough with the 4 watercooled gpu's, that coolant should never be heated by a cpu before it enters the gpu's again. You acutally want to keep them seperate allways because the cpu get heated anyway by the radiated heat coming from the gpu's. Watercooling or not they still leak a enormous heat in the case. No watercooling system can prevent that.
So yes i want them in their seperate loops at all times, hell even my lady her machine with 2 gpu's has cpu and gpu's in 2 separate loops
It keeps things pretty darn cool. Even when highly stressed.
You assume those who have a 'real' machine actually know how to use it, rather than just buying whatever the latest "6-Pack" branded version is...Quote:
Originally Posted by bronan
Nah, it's all just down to preference, really. The same way some people actually choose to ride 125cc motorcycles and go all custom-build on those...
Horses for courses.Quote:
Originally Posted by TtaskmasterYou assume those who have a 'real' machine actually know how to use it, rather than just buying whatever the latest "6-Pack" branded version is...Quote:
Originally Posted by bronan
Nah, it's all just down to preference, really. The same way some people actually choose to ride 125cc motorcycles and go all custom-build on those...
Personally, I don't understand why people put led's into PC's, but if that makes them happy, they should go for it. The thing is as long as I am not forced to do it, it does not matter.
I have used 2x AIO's in a lounge room gaming/HTPC inside a Thermaltake V21 case - it has a reference 290x modified with a NZXT G10 and Kraken X41 and Noctua fans to keep it quieter and cooler. It is too small to put in a custom cooling system (I have already modified the case to fit a blue-ray and card reader, plus a internal fan controller and my 2x USB dual TV tuners sit inside on a NZXT IU01 - and I still need to get air to flow through to keep other components cool like all the drives, etc) and the cost would have been at least 2 to 3 times what I paid for the AIO's. Then again I had to help a friend (first time for both of us, so it was like the blind trying to read the instructions and tell the deaf what to do .... smiley) who set up separate SLI and CPU custom water cooling systems in a gaming PC, a lot more expensive with 2 complete systems, a lot harder and longer to put together due to all the fiddly bits to sort out - plus he then has to maintain it. Not arguing for AIO's as the custom loop will work much better overall, just saying that they have their uses.
If there had just been some logic applied to the situation, Asetek should have just said - we have a patient on that and then everyone who is using it has to lose some percentage of the profit to give to Asetek. All it would require is a independant third party decide whether the patient applies - a small fee in comparison to the huge legal costs. No hold on selling and no wasting money trying to sue and defend against being sued. All this court stuff just makes the products more expensive (they have to cover the expense somehow)- while the lawyers get rich, the customers get poorer.