Tim Sweeney: Devs must oppose Microsoft Windows 10 UWP

[Ttaskmaster]

Windows is for wimps anyway. Who's using Windows? Kids, old people, and ignorant people. No intelligent person uses Windows.

Mac is for pretentious mung-bean-munching, Guardian-reading pseudo-hippies who want to think they're something special, while kidding themselves that they're writing a successful novel on their MacAirProBook sat in Starschmucks sipping a Grande-double-cappu-frappa-latte-moccachino...

Linux is for people who think they're special because they'd normally use Macs if they didn't actually know something about computers.

I was quite open-minded at one stage, so asked about Linux/Ubuntu a few times and had plenty of peeps crawling out of the woodwork to show me how "easy" it was... only to then stutter over my 'How do I...' questions and then explained that it wasn't as simple as that, how I had to understand XYZ, how ABC was not yet supported... and I then zoned out because it was suddenly like talking to a Mac user again.

End result, Win-7 does what I want and need, in the way I want and need it.
Win-7 lets me interface with everyone else, problem-free, because they're using Win-Something too.
Win-10 is still on the 'judgement reserved' list.

Even my friends, who are dedicated followers of Unix, still choose Windows.
*shrug*

[peterb]

Mac is for pretentious mung-bean-munching, Guardian-reading pseudo-hippies who want to think they're something special, while kidding themselves that they're writing a successful novel on their MacAirProBook sat in Starschmucks sipping a Grande-double-cappu-frappa-latte-moccachino...

Linux is for people who think they're special because they'd normally use Macs if they didn't actually know something about computers?

Oh dear, I'd better go and take out a Grauniad subscription while I'm waiting to harvest my mung beans. Can't bring myself to go to Starbucks though.

Still, it connects pretty seamlessly to my Linux based server though.

I do have a laptop that dual boots Windows/Linux for three legacy applications, and I run Win7 in a virtual machine on my Mac (even though I know nothing about computers) again for a couple of legacy applications. I also run Linux in the same VM - can't think how that happened as I know nothing about computers... Ah wait, of course, it's a Mac, so it just works!

[Ttaskmaster]

Ah wait, of course, it's a Mac, so it just works!

That was my argument with a Mac friend - It *just* works.
The instant I or even he tried to do something differently or specify how it was done, the Mac soiled itself and started whining about having to go through the iStore to get an iApp and import the thing into the iApp via iTunes, convert it to the iVersion and only then was he allowed to use it... and even then, it wasn't what he needed.

To top it off, his ISP issued a new router along with a line upgrade. He couldn't connect because he didn't know his password, because "The Mac always did that for me"... Sorry, but I'm not trusting my passwords and details to a computer like that.

[peterb]

That was my argument with a Mac friend - It *just* works.
The instant I or even he tried to do something differently or specify how it was done, the Mac soiled itself and started whining about having to go through the iStore to get an iApp and import the thing into the iApp via iTunes, convert it to the iVersion and only then was he allowed to use it... and even then, it wasn't what he needed.

To top it off, his ISP issued a new router along with a line upgrade. He couldn't connect because he didn't know his password, because "The Mac always did that for me"... Sorry, but I'm not trusting my passwords and details to a computer like that.

That's user error rather than computer error!

Joking apart, the "Windows Wizards" that are supposed to take the pain out of installation can be just as bad, fine when they work, a pain if they don't, and working with text based configuration files is generally simpler than working with the windows registry database.

But all operating systems have their idiosyncrasies, it's a question of getting to learn and understand them.

[Saracen]

....

End result, Win-7 does what I want and need, in the way I want and need it.
Win-7 lets me interface with everyone else, problem-free, because they're using Win-Something too.
Win-10 is still on the 'judgement reserved' list.

....

The problem is, sooner or later, everyone has to .... fish or cut bait. Maybe not yet, I agree, but eventually.

MS is doing everything it can to migrate people to Win10. And fair enough. But how long will Win7 remain a viable option? I'd say that depends what it's used for. In my case, I still have viable XP systems running softaare and hardware that even Win7 doesn't like, and I do it by running them on a totally net-isolated LAN. Most of my machines neither need nor benefit from a net connection, so that LAN is 100% air-gapped. I expect to be running those systems for as long as I have or can get hardware to do do. And I have a VERY extensive parts cupboard.

But most people aren't in that situation. And even I do have some machines I want to be internet connected.

For those, sooner or later, I have/had to decide what follows Win7. Mac is not on my option list as I'm not looking at new hardware. The options effectively drop to Win10 (possibly with Win8.x as a temporary stopgap) or Linux.

As for how easy Linux is, my view is that it is, like Windows, a complex OS but one with a reputation for being suitable only for command-line geeks. That reputation, these days, is unjustified. For the vast majority of the types of things normal users do, it's no harder than Windows. Different, yes, but no harder. But a point comes, like with Windows, where it gets obscure.

I recently had a phone call from my brother, who was fighting with an obstinate Win7 network problem. It took my brother about a day and half to coax Windows 7 into untwisting it's knickers, including two hours on the phone with me.

Neither my brother nor myself are Windows experts, but we're not exactly neophytes either, with almost 100 man-years of professional (including university courses in the 70s) computing experience between us. Average consumer-users or computer-ignorant, we are not.

[Ttaskmaster]

working with text based configuration files is generally simpler than working with the windows registry database.

Yeah that was when the "It's Easy" turned into "It's easy so long as you have a founding background in this programming language, or this query structure" and about when I decided Linux was not for me.

But how long will Win7 remain a viable option?

Until 'MicrApple' forces us into their innovative new way of doing things, by which time hopefully there will be a simple and easy alternative option that works as well as the current.

As for how easy Linux is, my view is that it is, like Windows, a complex OS but one with a reputation for being suitable only for command-line geeks. That reputation, these days, is unjustified. For the vast majority of the types of things normal users do, it's no harder than Windows. Different, yes, but no harder.

The issue would be with having to retrain everyone.
There are designers and media artists out there who love Mac. There are Unixy peeps and command-liners who love Linux... but the vast majority of people who work in an office or use a PC at home still use Windows.
Whilst you can convert one user at a time over to Linux that they learn in their spare time, could you really convince an old-school company with tens of thousands of employees and a few hundred different legacy Windows-based systems/apps/databases/junk to switch?

Ultimately, it's about what works with what we have and what we prefer/are used to. If it was always about what's best, we'd be using Dvorak instead of QWERTY, right?
I've never even seen a real Dvorak board in the flesh...

Average consumer-users or computer-ignorant, we are not.

But did you fix it in the end?
I know one end of a spanner from the other, but only coz they have it written on them, yet there have been several times I've embarrassed a team of pro-mechanics with a good 90 years between them, just from taking a different approach on something they'd all misssed.
No-one's perfect!

[peterb]

Er, most Linux application configuration files are plain text, a bit like Windows .ini files were.

But if Windows is fine for you, good, but recognise that some people prefer other operating systems, and that doesn't make them either superior or inferior to you.

[directhex]

Protip: every community-fixed game (e.g. every game made playable by Durante) is impossible with UWP

[Saracen]

....

But did you fix it in the end?

....

I didn't, no. I think my use was more of a "bouncing ideas off" person. You know what it's like, when you've had your head in a problem for yoo long and you can't see the woods for the trees, if you try to run through symptoms and what you've done to someone else, it helps you focus, sort things in your own head and hopefully initiate that "lightbulb" moment.

My brother rang an hour or two later saying it was all working, but as he caught me busy, he didn't go into detail about what was wrong. Which makes me wonder, knowing Windows, if it'll stay fixed for long.

[Ttaskmaster]

Er, most Linux application configuration files are plain text, a bit like Windows .ini files were.

But you still have to know what string of dots and slashes and colons and stuff are needed in order to do stuff, compared to having a simple interface with tooltips and things to alter the settings, was more what I was getting at.
Might just have been what they were trying to show me, but I'd lost interest at that point.

But if Windows is fine for you, good, but recognise that some people prefer other operating systems, and that doesn't make them either superior or inferior to you.

According to them I am a dumb sheeple for not taking up the 'clearly' superior alternative OSes, though... and they do use alternative OSes themselves, so they must know what they're talking about, right?

I honestly don't care - I go with what I can use or figure out myself and still get the job done. That's usually Windows on PC and Android on phones.