Microsoft announces Xbox One S and teases Project Scorpio

[jigger]

In what type of game at what FPS as what level of upscaling, like i said what Microsoft & Sony consider acceptable is probably a long way from what you and i would.
Lets not forget for years they've both been saying how playing at 30FPS is acceptable when most people know it's not.

What makes you think that? The hardware IS powerful enough to run 4K above 30FPS and nothing points to that not being the case.

[scaryjim]

... what Microsoft & Sony consider acceptable is probably a long way from what you and i would. ...

It's fair enough to talk about your own criteria for acceptability, but it's a bit arrogant to assume other people's criteria. My old APU HTPC used to run Dungeon Seige 3 at 1080p at around 24fps using minimum IQ, and I found that completely acceptable. It did minimum IQ for Skyrim at around the same performance, and that was fine too. If Sony and MS both put out updated consoles that played most games 4k/30fps, I'd find that more than acceptable.

To put it all in context, the PS4 puts out around 1.8TFlops and runs many games at 60fps at 1080p. The Project Scorpio tease has well over 3x the compute performance, and will almost certainly use a newer version of GCN which will also help boost performance. So you're probably looking at a console with 4x the raw performance of the PS4. I know there's not a linear relationship between pixel output and required performance, but I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that Project Scorpio will have the legs to perform well at 4k.

[lumireleon]

GPU details please

[jigger]

GPU details please

6 TFlops and probably an APU.

A quick check points to around 2300SP chip give or take with around 320-350GB/s of memory bandwidth.

[jigger]

It's fair enough to talk about your own criteria for acceptability, but it's a bit arrogant to assume other people's criteria. My old APU HTPC used to run Dungeon Seige 3 at 1080p at around 24fps using minimum IQ, and I found that completely acceptable. It did minimum IQ for Skyrim at around the same performance, and that was fine too. If Sony and MS both put out updated consoles that played most games 4k/30fps, I'd find that more than acceptable.

To put it all in context, the PS4 puts out around 1.8TFlops and runs many games at 60fps at 1080p. The Project Scorpio tease has well over 3x the compute performance, and will almost certainly use a newer version of GCN which will also help boost performance. So you're probably looking at a console with 4x the raw performance of the PS4. I know there's not a linear relationship between pixel output and required performance, but I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that Project Scorpio will have the legs to perform well at 4k.

Yeah I can't see any reason why the Xbox Scorpio would be anything other than a 4K machine. It makes no sense to offer another 1920x1080 machine.

What will be interesting is the Sony response.

[shaithis]

Yeah I can't see any reason why the Xbox Scorpio would be anything other than a 4K machine. It makes no sense to offer another 1920x1080 machine.

You could argue that they still haven't produced a real 1080p machine....

I can see this move as either the rapid decline of PC gaming or console gaming....how it will shake out is anyones guess but I can't see the Scorpio and PS4K having no measurable effect on the market....and with the "XBox Play Anywhere" scheme (which they seemed intent on making sure everyone knew about yesterday!), Microsoft certainly look to be hedging their bets.

[Corky34]

What makes you think that? The hardware IS powerful enough to run 4K above 30FPS and nothing points to that not being the case.

I prefer to take a wait and see approach, it's already been pointed out that current gen (PS4&Xbone) sometimes struggle to hit 30FPS@1080p without resorting to upscaling from 720p.

It's fair enough to talk about your own criteria for acceptability, but it's a bit arrogant to assume other people's criteria.....

Maybe i used to broad a brush stroke, but while some people maybe happy with 30FPS the difference is notable, to the extent that for *some* people it's not acceptable.

[jigger]

Microsoft have made their intentions known. Apart from them telling fibs we will see a 4K Xbox in November 2017.

I think the days of £500+ desktop graphics cards and CPU's are numbered.

[Corky34]

Phew, thank heaves we can trust Microsoft to always tell the truth.

[scaryjim]

... the difference is notable, to the extent that for *some* people it's not acceptable.

Wouldn't deny that, but it remains that for many people 30fps is perfectly acceptable. It is, of course, very much game dependent - the RPGs I like to play are far less frame-rate dependent, for instance - but where developers think they need the higher frame rate they can always lower the target res and up-scale. I suspect the result of up-scaled 1440p on a 4k display would still look pretty good.

Ultimately, as long as someone develops native 4k games for it, it's got every right to call itself a 4k console. Actually, it'd be interesting to see just how low you could go in the current GPU stack and get, say, minimum 30fps at 4k by reducing in-game settings. I've noticed that a lot of modern games still look pretty damn good at lowest IQ settings. What'd'ýou reckon, team Hexus? 4k "How low can you go" test?

[EvZ_2]

The claim that these machines will be able to play 4K games is bull#### - not even Nvidia with the 1080 card can do 4K efficiently yet. So what - your telling me Microsoft and Sony have made a GPU that is better! BULL#### - and if it can play 4K expect a max of 30fps - should have gone for 2K adoption, much more achievable with higher fps of 120/144

I'll believe when I see it....

[scaryjim]

The claim that these machines will be able to play 4K games is bull#### - not even Nvidia with the 1080 card can do 4K efficiently yet.

*sigh* did you even bother reading my comments about close-to-the-metal optimisation and it all depending on the levels of IQ the developers put into the games?

I reckon most current gen GPUs *could* do 4k/60fps given the right game, optimisations and IQ settings. Just because you like playing on uber-GPU-killer settings and demand an absolute maximum frame time of 16ms doesn't mean that's all there is to gaming. it's one aspect, and it's one that will only ever really be served by over-the-top uber-expensive gaming PCs with multiple GPUs (because the faster you make a GPU the more GPU-killing IQ settings developers will put into games). But there's plenty of gamers out there who'll game VERY happily at medium settings and enjoy the experience of 4k at 30fps.

What you like in a game does not define gaming. What you consider acceptable for 4k gaming does not define 4k gaming.


And, as an aside, watch the language. We expect a bit of decorum at Hexus, and whilst we have automatic language filters, we encourage users to choose words that AREN'T in the profanity list. if you can't make your point without swearing, you need to review either your use of language, or your point.

[daddacool]

I think it's easy to get hung up on maximum or average frame rates but the real issue in game on consoles or PC for that matter is the sudden drop in frame rate. I'd rather have a solid 45FPS than a 60FPS that sometimes drops to 30 or less.

Scorpio & Neo will probably see us finally get a full HD console, with no scaling of 900P or silly nonsense like that. And if they do it for a decent price, all the better.

As for whether it marks the death of the PC, I think it just shows an incremental blurring of the lines between the two. PC game sales still massively outstrip console sales after all.

[spacein_vader]

According to reports, PC gaming has been dying for at least 15 years.I suspect it'll be dying for at least another 15...

[crossy]

According to reports, PC gaming has been dying for at least 15 years.I suspect it'll be dying for at least another 15...

Quite true, I certainly remember obits for PC gaming when the previous generation Xbox and PS3 came out, and yet they're still going.

Don't think I'll be buying the latest Xbox, especially as I don't have a 4K TV nor the space for one at the moment. Of course if Microsoft wanted to do a trade in for my current Xbox then I'd be interested.

[jigger]

The claim that these machines will be able to play 4K games is bull#### - not even Nvidia with the 1080 card can do 4K efficiently yet. So what - your telling me Microsoft and Sony have made a GPU that is better! BULL#### - and if it can play 4K expect a max of 30fps - should have gone for 2K adoption, much more achievable with higher fps of 120/144

I'll believe when I see it....

It's probably not obvious to some people when comparing hardware between the PC and consoles but the consoles have some substantial advantages. Reading scaryjim comments would probably help you understand.
If what Microsoft have said is true the upgraded Xbox will be 4K games system. TBH it will probably run 4K pretty comfortably, but the biggest advantage is the machine will probably cost less than GTX1080.