I'm not convinced the official campaigns changed people's minds, probably because both were so bad. The polls didn't change much:
http://i.imgur.com/EakIVkP.png
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I'm not convinced the official campaigns changed people's minds, probably because both were so bad. The polls didn't change much:
http://i.imgur.com/EakIVkP.png
Maybe that tree hugging bull#### and being branded a racist or fascist has something to do with the implied threat of violence, say what you like about one side or the other but to imply there's going to be violence if people don't get their way is bordering on extremist behavior.Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly
All these champions of democracy popping up recently! But tell me, why is one referendum democratic, and two referenda undemocratic? Anyone?
Because, believe it or not, you cannot run referenda until you get the vote you want... if there is a 2nd and Remainers still don't get it... I predict a high possibility that there will be a 3rd, 4th and 5th... etcQuote:
Originally Posted by wazzickle
Well strictly speaking you can, it's just hypocrisy of the highest order.
But the referendum was on the status quo, if the EU changed then surely you could ask the people again whether they now prefer the new EU or still want to leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by s1lv3r
I agree, just not sure how long that run is going to be. If we could have voted out with no economic consequences, that would have been my choice, but I feel like we've lost a war, and the country is more divided now. As for the fall in the value of the pound - we're seeing that in graphics cards aren't we...Quote:
Originally Posted by Potbellieddwarf
Just not sure we need another recession right now, and the country (and the Labour Party) is leaderless and vulnerable. And finally, Farage - tell the man to shut up because telling everyone I told you so makes us all look like fools - we have to negotiate with the people he's insulting!
LMAO,"butt hurt millenials" - so basically people like you and the mates have gone to the level of supporting calling the people who will support our pensions and increasing social care costs for the next 50 to 60 years as "butt hurt". People like you and your mates who are desperately ignoring all the back tracks from major Leave campaigners,and are getting more and more annoyed when it is pointed it out to you - almost like a cult of personality around some of these Leave campaign figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by wazzickle
By implying violence and using language like butt-hurt, treehugger, bull#### and by posting polemics including the very words you profess to be against. You come cross poorly to say the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly
By whom ? The EU ? The 'Establishment' ? Sounds like this article had it spot on. It's all about inequality. You can thank the Tories for that.Quote:
I was just stating that some people in the UK feel that they are being taken for a ride.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ty-westminster
Well, they're certainly not going to listen to us now.Quote:
This is my opinion on how some people feel and believe it or not other people do have views which do not align with your own. [However, as I have learnt recently, you are branded a racist, old, or fascist if you voted out. I'm not against free movement of people nor am I against the EU principle as a whole. What I am concerned for is my country's well being and that doesn't make me a racist, fascist but I can't change being old. The EU could have worked if they were willing to change with the times but it isn't willing to do that.
Odd argument that. Not sure that it's possible to compare the two.Quote:
Would you stay with a woman that always said no and didn't want to entertain your ideas on how to keep your relationship in one piece? No, you would probably divorce her.
Threats of violence ? Nice. Yes, I would mourn the breakup of the UK. But hey, no price too high to 'Stick it to the Man'Quote:
Ah well, you lost the vote and yet you all want another referendum? That's modern day democracy at it's best and knowing how the British are nowadays you will probably get it. However, iof it happens you will have far bigger problems to worry about that Scotland leaving as it will probably trigger riots across the UK.
It would seem that most people would agree with you. You should always contribute.Quote:
However, as I said that's my opinion which is obviously not allowed on here anymore so I will STFU and not bother contributing.
This needs no rebuttal. It is an insight into your viewpoint.Quote:
Same tree hugging bull#### everywhere.
The video is quite funny. It does show that the whole Referendum was information poor. However it was Gove who said that people don't want expert opinion.[/QUOTE]
What I've noticed recently about the young is:- many\few are saying "I am European\EU citizen" yet if IIRC it was once "I am a citizen of the world"...h'mm well
Because you need to consider that many of the young have grown up in an increasingly connected world,unlike us oldies and many of them in the larger cities have experienced more of alternate cultures and peoples than the rest of the country. I lived in more than one country and saw the same - it is the very nature of many large cities around the world,especially capitals and those with big university populations that this happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur2
Hence,for a decent amount of them its business as usual,as opposed to the fear(some might be unfounded,some might be true),that people elsewhere might have regarding all of this. Its the same everywhere in the world now. Remember,some of the areas which strongly voted leave had some of the lowest levels of migration in the country and any migration to those areas,was usually by people outside the EU anyway. Yet,EU migration was still a concern.
It also shows an increasing disconnect between different parts of the country - seen comments about London and a number of home counties on the interwebs being in a bubble and disconnected,and how unfair it is they get all the investment. Where as I do agree we do need more investment and decentralisation in this country(you should visit places like Sheffield,and outside the centre and university areas,just lots of closed down businesses,empty houses,etc),there is a Dick Whittington level of expectation that I get that people think the streets of London are "paved with gold" and people forget that nearly 1 in 6 people in England live in a tiny area.
In reality there are plenty in London who are just barely getting by and London still pays a net contribution to prop up other areas of the country.
The issue is that if more and more of the rest of the country starts having ago at the wealthier parts of the country,they might as well say we support ourselves,we want all our tax pounds for our people as we have poor people too,and that the other areas of the country should stand on their own two feet instead of complaining.
If you want a job move down here then.
This referendum has just ended up stirring up all the internal divisions in this country and class,age and regional divides we have in this country.
Exactly - This has very little to do with the EU, and everything to do with inequality.Quote:
Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH
ftfy.Quote:
Originally Posted by phage
What, like the last 40 years? I think this is one thing that tipped some people in favour for Leave; it was for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur2
If we could have voted for no more change, everything staying the same, then I would probably agree just because of human nature more than anything else. But history shows this hasn't, and almost certainly, will not be the case. And when the EU makes little changes here and there, and we don't get the vote, it just builds up more resentment amongst the public (via the media and probably politicians themselves). I know people mentioned the referendums that a couple of countries had for the Lisbon treaty (Denmark and Netherlands?), but I haven't researched into the exact implications of the results, so apologies for the generalisation here: I think those countries voted against it and I believe won some concessions, but it wasn't exactly an "options" list for which parts of the EU you can or can't agree to (for better or for worse). If there was a fairly big change in the future, and we did vote against it, it may be that Leave would "win" and we end up here again anyway.
I also think that it is obviously a lot easier to see the some of the flaws of the results of Leave now, but it would be 5-10 years down the line before you could start to point out some of the flaws of the possible long term effects of the campaigns (EU army, Turkey joining for better or for worse etc.). By then, any information about these will be in hind-sight and I am sure people now would say that didn't see it coming, and others will say "the signs were here". I fully expect some of these posts in these referendum threads to get quoted in a few years' time with "Told you so!" :P