WhatsApp to share user data with Facebook

[Noxvayl]

Blackberry Messenger for the win

Also Steam rocks as a messaging app

[Rob_B]

Yep same as me. I dont have facebook, twitter etc. Started using whatsapp about a month ago and now just uninstalled it

Can I genuinely ask why? If you tick the "don't share data with facebook" option are you any worse off than you were a few days ago privacy wise?

[Jonj1611]

Yeah maybe but I can't stand facebook and rather not have anything associated with them. To be honest I forgot they had bought whatsapp and if I had known at the time wouldn't have installed it in the first place.

[peterb]

Regardless of a tick box to not share data with Facebook, this is the start of the slippery slope, which i wish i could escape. There will always be 'don't care' friends/family who will refuse to move, so i'm stuck with it.

No one has mentioned Telegram messaging application, that is available for both Android, iOS AND Windows Phones! It has been providing optional encrypted messaging before WhatApp implemented it. Also I like the fact the name of the App has some relevance to the type of application it is... telegram... ie messaging.

Just installed Telegram - looks like I'm an early adopter (00 er) as none of my contacts are using it

[Jonj1611]

Is it any good Peter?

[peterb]

It does look quite good, the iOS user interface is similar to iMessaging (on a tablet) and the android one is similar to a text application (on a phone). I haven't seen what it is like on a desktop Mac yer.

The proof will be in the use, and as non of my contacts seem to be using it, I can't pass comment on that aspect!

But that was the same when I started using WhatsApp, so it didn't get used much initially.

Once I've persuaded some friends to install it, I'll be able to make a better judgement.

What I do like is the syncing across multiple devices - much like iMessaging does across Apple devices, but is cross plarptform, so that is a big plus.

[Jonj1611]

Thank you

Cross platform is a big thing for me, I have an Android phone now, so does my daughter but my son has an iPhone and various other people I know have a general mixture.

I will get the kids to install it and will see how we get on.

Thanks again

[Saracen]

One thing I really do not like, is when social network applications (be it FB, or whatever messaging application wants to access the contact list). Even if I was okay with it (and I am not), my contacts may not be okay with it, and vice-versa.

I'd agree with that, except that I wouldn't limit it to social network apps.

The inability to control MY device at a granular level, permissions-wise, is a major reason if not 'the' mahjor reason why I still don't have a smart phone. It seems that just about every app (or at least, Android app and I'm certainly not interested in iPhones at iApple's iRipoff pricing) from a kitchin timer upwards expects to be granted permissions to access everything from your contact lists emails to photos to location data to control over cameras, etc.

Why the hell does a simple timer need to access location data? Only one reason, in my opinion.

Okay, so this data exchange has an "opt-out". For now. If you trust it to work.

In my opinion, it is simply self-evident that a very large part of the app market, and I accept there are a few notable exceptions, are ALL about getting your personal data And it's not that they are interested in me, or my contacts or location data per se. It's that that data, en-masse, and linked together with other personal data from other sources, builds into a hugely valuable database with ever-increasing levels of detail about our lives.

It is so overwhelmingly pervasive and extensive, so ingrained and insidious, that increasingly "opting out" is pointless. If the data doesn't end up in one database it'll end up in a dozen others and, like any good pyramid scheme, sooner or later end up with Google or one of the other pernicious data vampires.

The only way even to slow it down is to not do things that create the data trail in the first place. And that means either rigid self-control using data collection devices like phones, or not having the devices that collect the data at all, because vampires like Google can't collect data that doesn't exist.

Otherwise, I've about reached the point where I'm not convinced opting out actually achieves much. It might stop or at least defer that particular route of data aggregation, but given that pervasive data raiding ethos, it's only a matter of time before data that exists at all gets collected and aggregated via a different pathway, like a nosy kitchin timer app.

We all might as well either swear off such tech entirely, or shrug and give in to the inevitable. And I somehow don't see many people swearing off.

[TooNice]

I'd agree with that, except that I wouldn't limit it to social network apps.

The inability to control MY device at a granular level, permissions-wise, is a major reason if not 'the' mahjor reason why I still don't have a smart phone. It seems that just about every app (or at least, Android app and I'm certainly not interested in iPhones at iApple's iRipoff pricing) from a kitchin timer upwards expects to be granted permissions to access everything from your contact lists emails to photos to location data to control over cameras, etc.

Oh you are right, but I find that social network apps are by far the worse offenders, probably because they seem to think that people enjoy the "convenience" of having everything in one place (integration) and care not about giving away their network. Fortunately I've found that there -are- regular applications that only requests things that you'd expect them to, but you do have to look for them. And I have read somewhere that the new Android allows you to fine tune the permission, which is much welcome.

[Noxvayl]

I'd agree with that, except that I wouldn't limit it to social network apps.

The inability to control MY device at a granular level, permissions-wise, is a major reason if not 'the' mahjor reason why I still don't have a smart phone. It seems that just about every app (or at least, Android app and I'm certainly not interested in iPhones at iApple's iRipoff pricing) from a kitchin timer upwards expects to be granted permissions to access everything from your contact lists emails to photos to location data to control over cameras, etc.

Why the hell does a simple timer need to access location data? Only one reason, in my opinion.

Okay, so this data exchange has an "opt-out". For now. If you trust it to work.

In my opinion, it is simply self-evident that a very large part of the app market, and I accept there are a few notable exceptions, are ALL about getting your personal data And it's not that they are interested in me, or my contacts or location data per se. It's that that data, en-masse, and linked together with other personal data from other sources, builds into a hugely valuable database with ever-increasing levels of detail about our lives.

It is so overwhelmingly pervasive and extensive, so ingrained and insidious, that increasingly "opting out" is pointless. If the data doesn't end up in one database it'll end up in a dozen others and, like any good pyramid scheme, sooner or later end up with Google or one of the other pernicious data vampires.

The only way even to slow it down is to not do things that create the data trail in the first place. And that means either rigid self-control using data collection devices like phones, or not having the devices that collect the data at all, because vampires like Google can't collect data that doesn't exist.

Otherwise, I've about reached the point where I'm not convinced opting out actually achieves much. It might stop or at least defer that particular route of data aggregation, but given that pervasive data raiding ethos, it's only a matter of time before data that exists at all gets collected and aggregated via a different pathway, like a nosy kitchin timer app.

We all might as well either swear off such tech entirely, or shrug and give in to the inevitable. And I somehow don't see many people swearing off.

Sometimes I wonder about your mental health... Those signals in your mind don't belong to you, they belong to life in general. Give it up

To be honest with you, I'd rather share my data, and share so much of it that it is impossible to make sense of. I used to be exceptionally careful who I shared my data with but the restrictions it placed on me was not worth it. I'd rather pay by giving my data to everyone than have to deal with the mess that is trying to choose carefully where my data goes. I don't have the time, energy or inclination to deal with that cognitive load in my life, just because I value my data more than the average person.

I use CyanogenMod because it gives me access to advanced privacy controls to block the permissions requested by badly coded apps.

[peterb]

Thank you

Cross platform is a big thing for me, I have an Android phone now, so does my daughter but my son has an iPhone and various other people I know have a general mixture.

I will get the kids to install it and will see how we get on.

Thanks again

First impressions are good. It does sync chats across my android and Mac devices. Presumably it would for Windows too. Just need to persuade my contacts on both to install yet another messaging app!

[Jonj1611]

Ah yes very true, I said to the kids this morning that we need to install an app. And they both looked at me like "Not again!". Installing today so hopefully be able to report back later

[peterb]

Sometimes I wonder about your mental health... Those signals in your mind don't belong to you, they belong to life in general. Give it up

To be honest with you, I'd rather share my data, and share so much of it that it is impossible to make sense of. I used to be exceptionally careful who I shared my data with but the restrictions it placed on me was not worth it. I'd rather pay by giving my data to everyone than have to deal with the mess that is trying to choose carefully where my data goes. I don't have the time, energy or inclination to deal with that cognitive load in my life, just because I value my data more than the average person.

I use CyanogenMod because it gives me access to advanced privacy controls to block the permissions requested by badly coded apps.

Hmm, I get Saracen's point, as I do yours. I am deeply suspicious of both Facebook and Google, both of which have a business model based on targeted advertising which is enabled by data gathering. One of the reasons why I don't use hangouts, but then I'm inconsistent in that I do use chrome, I have an Android phone, and I use other Google applications.

I can pretty much ignore ads, but it does concern me when I have looked at a website, and then that company keeps popping up on other websites. I have ad preferences turned off, so that happens less often and is preferable to "having ads tailored to your interests". My interests are my business thank you Google!

But equally, for me, shareing some personal data is a price I'm prepared to pay for the convenience I get. The concern is the control I get, and the Apple_apps seem less data hungry than Android apps - but then you pay a premium for belonging to Apples infrastructure, but at least their business model isn't built on data gathering for advertising.

[Noxvayl]

The price of avoiding data gathering is far worse, in any measurable way. Hence my switch of tact.

I used to be exactly like Saracen, but I've realised how much stress it added to my life unnecessarily.

[peterb]

The price of avoiding data gathering is far worse, in any measurable way. Hence my switch of tact.

I used to be exactly like Saracen, but I've realised how much stress it added to my life unnecessarily.

Yes, but it is a judgment call - each to their own!

[Saracen]

....

To be honest with you, I'd rather share my data, and share so much of it that it is impossible to make sense of. I used to be exceptionally careful who I shared my data with but the restrictions it placed on me was not worth it. I'd rather pay by giving my data to everyone than have to deal with the mess that is trying to choose carefully where my data goes. I don't have the time, energy or inclination to deal with that cognitive load in my life, just because I value my data more than the average person.

....

Two things about that.

First, "impossible to make sense of".

If it were some human analyst looking at your "file" and trying to make sense of it I might agree, but that grossly underestimates the ability of data mining techniques to extract both inferences and information from mass volumes of data, and the degree of aggregation of data from multiple sources into a coherent picture.

Secondly, "I'd rather pay by ....". Fair enough. It's a value judgement. You choose to give up that data to everyone in order to get the "benefit" of services and/or devices. That suggests you either value your privacy a lot less thab I value mine, or you value the benefit of those devices/services a lot more than I do. Or both.

Thing is, there is no real "cognitive load" for me because I don't value the "benefit" of those devices and services highly at all.

To many, and certainly most younger people, even having a mobile phone at all is an essential. To me, it's a VERY mixed blessing. Yes, it means we can be "in touch" all the time, but that presupposes that to actually be an advantage. I regard it as very much a double-edged sword. For me, not being contactable at all times, but rather only when it suits me and most definitrly ONLY by those I want to be able to contact me at all times is a very high priority.

In other words, I value my privacy, and peace and quiet, and having control over making 99.999999% of the world leave me the hell alone, very highly. Other than a very short list of family and close friends, I don't want to be contactable 24/7. I certainly don't want unsolicited commercial contact, by anyone for any purpose, and never under any curcumstances by phone. I don't even want to be advertised at, and while an element of "broadcast" advertising is unavoudable, I don't want targeted, profiled advertising under any circumstances. I want advertisers to, at a minimum, leave me the hell alone and preferably, not even know I exist. I don't care what product they have, what offer they gave, who they are, what discount they want to give me or what gee-whizz new conrraption they've come up with, I don't want to be pesteted. Ever.

So I can't think of any benefit, to me, from them data-collecting from me, and I'm not interested in "social media" if they paid me.

The marginal benefit from mobile phones is achievable by having an old dumb phone and even that is off except for when I want it on. Some months, that's 0 minutes.

There are some uses I'd put a smart phone to IF it wasn't for the way they're abused by I can do without the cognitive load of trying to sort that small proportion of decent apps from the bulk of deceitful ones. Instead, I simply forego the very nominal utility of the little I might use by not having any of it. It's not much of a cognitive load to decide "Errr, no thanks" and forget about it.

I do think the rest of the planet is sleepwalking into a world where big corporates know far, FAR too much about us all though.

How long I can dodge it for, and to what extent, remains to be seen., Byt every place I ho without some GPS-aware device with me, every social media comment I don't make, every byte of data I don't create is a byte less than can be snooped on, vampired up by Google etc, stored, analysed, processed and data-mined. Every byte not created is a byte forever denied them and a byte less known about me. Which is how I like it. That which doesn't exist can't be analysed.

Unfortunately, I can't avoid such corporate data systems absolutely, or I would. All I can do is not unnecessatily or thoughtlessly feed the beast.

....

I use CyanogenMod because .....

That's fair enough, but that whooshing noise is the sound of that going straight over the heads of about 95% of general users. It might fly among many users on a forum like this, but in general?