QOTW: Would you consider switching to an app-based bank?

[Spud1]

Yes, I plan to switch over at some point this year when Monzo get's their debit cards/current accounts up and running. Why?

1) Most "old" banks offer absolutely nothing special (unless you pay a fee, and even that is debatable). Santanders 123 used to be special and very profitable, but since the changes it isn't anymore..and the rest tend to offer gimmicks around in credit accounts that amount to tiny percentages of interest that in practice make no difference to most people. Newer startups like Monzo and actually Yorkshire Bank as the only one of the "old" players out there do - a huge simplification of my accounts. The ability to track my spending to that level of fine detail, spit out a pre-classified report that I can easily import into my accounting software is huge to me and a great help to budgeting. That said, most people don't budget to that level so it may not be an issue!

2) Switching is easy, quick and risk free these days. I've done it a few times in the past few years already - you don't get any reward for loyalty with banks. The main thing to watch is your credit history, but if you do it right, it's not an issue.

3) These new banks are *not* high risk as when they offer current accounts they are all protected by the FSCS deposit protection scheme, so if they do go bump your money is protected. Note that Monzo is currently a bit different until it's full licence is granted and I wouldn't go near them until that point.

4) Security wise you are at no more risk than the other banks - in fact I would go as far as to say they are safer. The vast majority of banking fraud is through social engineering, either of customers themselves or of the branch staff. With no branch staff, the second attack vector goes away..not much you can do about the first unfortunately. Software security is up there with the other banks - if any bank has online banking or an app, there is a tiny, tiny, tiny risk - but as long as you setup the basics like 2FA and strong passwords just like any other service, you are more likely to be mugged than have your account hacked. You do need to check them first mind - Atom for some bizarre reason offers voice & facial recognition as a login method, both of which are bad ideas without some sort of 2FA component, but you can disable those features so it's just about being smart.

Those are the top reasons I would be more than happy to swap over...when their current accounts are launched. Currently I think that "B" is the only app based account available with a current account - the other challengers (Atom/Tandem/Monzo/Starling) are still in progress. B doesn't interest me given how their founding organizations work, but hopefully the other 4 will get their current accounts sorted this year.

[Saracen]

....

4) Security wise you are at no more risk than the other banks - in fact I would go as far as to say they are safer. The vast majority of banking fraud is through social engineering, either of customers themselves or of the branch staff. With no branch staff, the second attack vector goes away..not much you can do about the first unfortunately. Software security is up there with the other banks - if any bank has online banking or an app, there is a tiny, tiny, tiny risk - but as long as you setup the basics like 2FA and strong passwords just like any other service, you are more likely to be mugged than have your account hacked. You do need to check them first mind - Atom for some bizarre reason offers voice & facial recognition as a login method, both of which are bad ideas without some sort of 2FA component, but you can disable those features so it's just about being smart.

....

As far as I'm concerned, a lot depends on what uses you make of your bank, on what you want, or need.

My approach is based on my needs, and exactly on your point above - attack vectors. By closing off ALL online banking options, I have effectively closed off all "remote" attack vectors .... for which bank T&Cs might hold me liable. Yes, there are still risks, like being mugged, burgled, etc, but that limits exposure to those geographically close, and even then, I have and do take some precautions to limits some risks and exclude others

What it comes down to is that my need for bank services at all is absolutely minimal. I don't even need debit/credit cards, though I do occasionally find them useful ... provided they do not have 'contactless' capability, that being another 'modern' banking feature I not only don't want but reject absolutely.

My banking needs are probably unusual, and certainly absolutely minimal. I'm actually not far off not needing, or having, a bank account at all. So .... lots of 'attack vectors' are entirely closed off.

[Spud1]

Definitely - each to their own and that's the great thing about having a wide selection. The challenger banks won't be right for everyone, internet banking isn't right for everyone, and branches are not right for everyone. It's nice to finally see some sort of choice starting to appear in the UK banking market

[peterb]

My nearest bank branch is about 4 miles away, so while I can get balances and cash from a local supermarket, going into a branch to do routine stuff is a chunk of day I could be using for something more productive, (especially given the restricted banking hours) so internet banking is a real plus, and using an app is just an extension of that - but each to their own!

Being able to confirm when an invoice has been paid is very useful!

I do operate on account on behalf of an organisation and that is a real PITA, both for me writing cheques and the recipients who have to pay them in, and then again checking to see if/when they have been paid in and then the subsequent reconciliation in the accounts.


So I will be looking to get internet banking on that account too.

[jm101]

NO absolutely not. Fact is I do not even trust the apps that present major banks make available. Computer hacking thru the internet portal in use is much easier and even some vpn's have been shown to leak information.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Mondo (Monzo!) user here, have been for quite a while. It's not my primary account but once all the regulation hoops, FCA and all other banking licences granted I could see myself switching fully.

dont do it!

[j.o.s.h.1408]

As far as I'm concerned, a lot depends on what uses you make of your bank, on what you want, or need.

My approach is based on my needs, and exactly on your point above - attack vectors. By closing off ALL online banking options, I have effectively closed off all "remote" attack vectors .... for which bank T&Cs might hold me liable. Yes, there are still risks, like being mugged, burgled, etc, but that limits exposure to those geographically close, and even then, I have and do take some precautions to limits some risks and exclude others

What it comes down to is that my need for bank services at all is absolutely minimal. I don't even need debit/credit cards, though I do occasionally find them useful ... provided they do not have 'contactless' capability, that being another 'modern' banking feature I not only don't want but reject absolutely.

My banking needs are probably unusual, and certainly absolutely minimal. I'm actually not far off not needing, or having, a bank account at all. So .... lots of 'attack vectors' are entirely closed off.

so what do u use to buy stuff on scan.co.uk

[Saracen]

so what do u use to buy stuff on scan.co.uk

The serious answer is that you'll notice I said I don't need debit or credit cards, but they're occasionally useful. An inference of that is that I have them. However .... neither have been used for months, and I don't carry them around with me.

An alternative answer is ... prepaid cards.

Another alternative answer, though true, is that I don't remember last time I bought anything from Scan. Why?, Firstly, I avoid online buying wherever possible. Second, regular travel to a client in Stoke/Newscastle-under-Lyme puts me, oh, 10 mins from OCUK. Third, I have a REALLY good small, local supplier who nearly always matches both for price, and when he doesn't, the margin is small and I don't mind paying it. And fourth, you nay have seen my arguments in the past that a PC is just a tool for doing a job, and that the PC I bought (well, built from bits, some bought and some I already had) some years ago is perfectly adequate for doing everything I need of it, despite being kinda ancient by modern standards. I don't buy a new set of spanners every time something shiny comes out, when the current slightly battered, oily and lightly worn ones still do the job perfectly well.

Expanding your specific point to a more general case, the reason I said cards were "occasionalky useful" was for things hard to do without. The obvious example is car hire and hotel bookings. But, for personal reasons, I don't travel that much these days, and when I do go away, it's nearly always to a place where I have both house and car waiting fir me, so I don't need car hire or hotel reservations. It could happen, but hasn't for .... well, quite some years.

Over recent years, I have slowly simplified my life, step by step. For those same personal reasons I mentioned earlier, I'm reverting to a lifestyle reminiscent of the era of my childhood. Or putting it another way, stripping away most modern distractions down to what really matters - roof over head, good food, family, comfortable and warm clothing, and a moderate degree of home comforts. For example, no mortgage, no debts, absolutely no need for credit or desire to have any. Most utility bills can be taken care of by one annual payment, in advance, so I can sort out bill payments for gas, electricity, water, etc, annually in advance, in one go. Add necessary insurances to that. Cellphone? Strictly PAYG and rarely used, so I stick a few quid on it about once every five years. Council tax? Pay the bill for the year when it arrives. Yes, it means foregoing the interest I'd earn by keeping the money in my account for the year, but these days it's so minimal as to be irrelevant, and besides, is a price worth paying for hassle avoidance. I just keep a tally on balances when bills arrive, typically quarterly, to make sure I don't drop into arrears.

So, almost regardless of what might be substituted for Scan, I typically either either don't need it, or buy locally not online/mail order, or already have what I need.

The funny thing is that sone people probably regard that kind of stripped back life, albeit with adequate modern help in gadgets, but absent the horrid buzz of 24/7 contact, cellphones, social media, etc as paradise, while others shudder at the thought of being separated from their cellphone for more than 10 minutes. I'm in the 'paradise' group.

I watched a program recently called, IIRC, "Stripped Bare". It had three 'households', a girl living on her own, a bloke and a girl house-sharing, and two blokes and a girl house-sharing. And they were, other than the roof over their heads and very basic foodstuffs, "stripped bare" of all their possessions. And I mean "bare". Not a stitch of clothing, not a stick of furniture. Even washing machines, TVs and all the curtains were removed. They left the paint on the walls and utilities turned on, but that was about it.

All, and I mean ALL their possessions, were removed to storage containers about half a mile away, and each day (of the 21 day experiment) they were allowed to retrieve ONE item. On day three, after the weekend, they all had to go back to work, with ONLY what three possessions they then had.

Oh, and among the possessions removed was their money, wallets, bank cards, etc, so no sneaking out and buying a whole new clothing collection.

Challenge number 1 was how to get to their possessions, after the first day, half a mile away, butt-naked. One remarkably able girl made the dash by grabbing a bit of cardboard from a nearby bin, once she got to it, then retrieving a large roll of cloth as her item (she was a self-employed clothes designer). Will little more than her teeth and nails/hooks in the wall where her pictures had been removed, she made her own basic clothing, including twisting some cloth into a sort-of rope, and making basic rope shoes.

It was VERY interesting watching each victim agonising, especially in the early days, over WHICH single item to take, each day. And it seemed .... cathartic.

Anyway, my point is that being deprived of everything made them think very hard about 'want' versus 'need'. And after the 21 days, they just about all decided to "declutter", some very drastically. One decided that checking social media every few minutes was a huge waste of her valuable time, and she deleted most. One lad, in the group of three, decided he liked not having TV as a distraction because it meant he spent more time with friends, etc, but his flatmates overruled him.

I've gone through a similar sort of process, but much, MUCH slower. It's evolved over years .... and didn't involve much wandering around butt-naked. Not in public anyway. For which neighbours ought to be highly thankful, and that's another story anyway.

So the real answer to "buying from Scan" is .... pretty much, I don't, because I don't need to. Or even want to.


Sorry Josh, but you DID ask, didn't you.

[Spud1]

I might have to watch that - sounds like it would be quite interesting! It's still available on All4 if anyone is interested.

[Guy]

dont do it!

Could you expand a little?

I have little to no (majorly the latter) in the main banks ability to hold my data correctly and in a secure manner. Not to mention how many failures of systems and outages have occurred to all the legacy infrastructure they've not bothered to invest in as they squeezed every last drop out of it.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

The serious answer is that you'll notice I said I don't need debit or credit cards, but they're occasionally useful. An inference of that is that I have them. However .... neither have been used for months, and I don't carry them around with me.

An alternative answer is ... prepaid cards.

Another alternative answer, though true, is that I don't remember last time I bought anything from Scan. Why?, Firstly, I avoid online buying wherever possible. Second, regular travel to a client in Stoke/Newscastle-under-Lyme puts me, oh, 10 mins from OCUK. Third, I have a REALLY good small, local supplier who nearly always matches both for price, and when he doesn't, the margin is small and I don't mind paying it. And fourth, you nay have seen my arguments in the past that a PC is just a tool for doing a job, and that the PC I bought (well, built from bits, some bought and some I already had) some years ago is perfectly adequate for doing everything I need of it, despite being kinda ancient by modern standards. I don't buy a new set of spanners every time something shiny comes out, when the current slightly battered, oily and lightly worn ones still do the job perfectly well.

Expanding your specific point to a more general case, the reason I said cards were "occasionalky useful" was for things hard to do without. The obvious example is car hire and hotel bookings. But, for personal reasons, I don't travel that much these days, and when I do go away, it's nearly always to a place where I have both house and car waiting fir me, so I don't need car hire or hotel reservations. It could happen, but hasn't for .... well, quite some years.

Over recent years, I have slowly simplified my life, step by step. For those same personal reasons I mentioned earlier, I'm reverting to a lifestyle reminiscent of the era of my childhood. Or putting it another way, stripping away most modern distractions down to what really matters - roof over head, good food, family, comfortable and warm clothing, and a moderate degree of home comforts. For example, no mortgage, no debts, absolutely no need for credit or desire to have any. Most utility bills can be taken care of by one annual payment, in advance, so I can sort out bill payments for gas, electricity, water, etc, annually in advance, in one go. Add necessary insurances to that. Cellphone? Strictly PAYG and rarely used, so I stick a few quid on it about once every five years. Council tax? Pay the bill for the year when it arrives. Yes, it means foregoing the interest I'd earn by keeping the money in my account for the year, but these days it's so minimal as to be irrelevant, and besides, is a price worth paying for hassle avoidance. I just keep a tally on balances when bills arrive, typically quarterly, to make sure I don't drop into arrears.

So, almost regardless of what might be substituted for Scan, I typically either either don't need it, or buy locally not online/mail order, or already have what I need.

The funny thing is that sone people probably regard that kind of stripped back life, albeit with adequate modern help in gadgets, but absent the horrid buzz of 24/7 contact, cellphones, social media, etc as paradise, while others shudder at the thought of being separated from their cellphone for more than 10 minutes. I'm in the 'paradise' group.

I watched a program recently called, IIRC, "Stripped Bare". It had three 'households', a girl living on her own, a bloke and a girl house-sharing, and two blokes and a girl house-sharing. And they were, other than the roof over their heads and very basic foodstuffs, "stripped bare" of all their possessions. And I mean "bare". Not a stitch of clothing, not a stick of furniture. Even washing machines, TVs and all the curtains were removed. They left the paint on the walls and utilities turned on, but that was about it.

All, and I mean ALL their possessions, were removed to storage containers about half a mile away, and each day (of the 21 day experiment) they were allowed to retrieve ONE item. On day three, after the weekend, they all had to go back to work, with ONLY what three possessions they then had.

Oh, and among the possessions removed was their money, wallets, bank cards, etc, so no sneaking out and buying a whole new clothing collection.

Challenge number 1 was how to get to their possessions, after the first day, half a mile away, butt-naked. One remarkably able girl made the dash by grabbing a bit of cardboard from a nearby bin, once she got to it, then retrieving a large roll of cloth as her item (she was a self-employed clothes designer). Will little more than her teeth and nails/hooks in the wall where her pictures had been removed, she made her own basic clothing, including twisting some cloth into a sort-of rope, and making basic rope shoes.

It was VERY interesting watching each victim agonising, especially in the early days, over WHICH single item to take, each day. And it seemed .... cathartic.

Anyway, my point is that being deprived of everything made them think very hard about 'want' versus 'need'. And after the 21 days, they just about all decided to "declutter", some very drastically. One decided that checking social media every few minutes was a huge waste of her valuable time, and she deleted most. One lad, in the group of three, decided he liked not having TV as a distraction because it meant he spent more time with friends, etc, but his flatmates overruled him.

I've gone through a similar sort of process, but much, MUCH slower. It's evolved over years .... and didn't involve much wandering around butt-naked. Not in public anyway. For which neighbours ought to be highly thankful, and that's another story anyway.

So the real answer to "buying from Scan" is .... pretty much, I don't, because I don't need to. Or even want to.


Sorry Josh, but you DID ask, didn't you.

I've seen that show...

Anyways are you able to pay bills in cash?

And I would love to be in your position and not pay a mortgage (I assumed you payed it all off?)

Yea it's doable depending on how much outgoing u have and your interests and wants.

In terms of computer parts I agree. But occasionally I upgrade because I can't play a game at max details anymore lol

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Saracen]

I've seen that show...

Anyways are you able to pay bills in cash?

And I would love to be in your position and not pay a mortgage (I assumed you payed it all off?)

Yea it's doable depending on how much outgoing u have and your interests and wants.

In terms of computer parts I agree. But occasionally I upgrade because I can't play a game at max details anymore lol

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Pay cash? Yep.

Mortgage paid off? Yeah. A few years early. And, oh boy does it make a difference to disposable income.

A gaming PC no doubt is a different proposition, but as I object on principle to Steam (or the implications thereof) that pretty much puts paid to me playing most recent releases. Aa a long-term gamer, I'm not hapoy about that but as it's stick to my principles or cave in .... minimum gaming for me. At least, until De-DRM'd versions dtart appearingvon GOG, etc.

Also, I generally don't find game play (for me) is determined by maximum graphics settings, so if I have to turn a few fancy settings off, I'm not bothered.

[Tonedef]

No need for this when we have online only banks like ally who give a physical card and have great rates on savings and checking accounts. there are many ways to pay from the phone if that is what you are after. These people will never see a dime from me.

[mikerr]

I have little to no (majorly the latter) in the main banks ability to hold my data correctly and in a secure manner.

I rang up Egg Card once when having trouble logging in and I was sure I'd typed the password correct.

The operator told me which letter I had mistyped - as they could see both my typed password, and the password itself !

I cancelled that card shortly after !

[Rubarb]

Every single year Phones get hacked and not just by hackers, take the news of the world for example.
Withe the ever increasing content of things controlled by phones such as heating lighting etc I can only see this getting worse in the future.
This along with the fact I have to deal with and hate phone dead morons all day every day is one of the reasons I don't own a smart phone.

So banking .... hell no I wouldn't use any online banking method.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Pay cash? Yep.

Mortgage paid off? Yeah. A few years early. And, oh boy does it make a difference to disposable income.

A gaming PC no doubt is a different proposition, but as I object on principle to Steam (or the implications thereof) that pretty much puts paid to me playing most recent releases. Aa a long-term gamer, I'm not hapoy about that but as it's stick to my principles or cave in .... minimum gaming for me. At least, until De-DRM'd versions dtart appearingvon GOG, etc.

Also, I generally don't find game play (for me) is determined by maximum graphics settings, so if I have to turn a few fancy settings off, I'm not bothered.

Alot of stuff can only be paid my card

for instance i cant pay cash on sky tv and amazon prime!

Or give cash as rent!

scan, ocuk, amazon etc dont accept cash either.