Tesla Model S P100D driven 1,000km on single charge

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EndlessWaves

It's certainly one of the biggest concerns of potential buyers but doesn't actually seem to be a big problem among owners.

---

Owners don't seem to go that far in a single trip, or don't mind adapting their lives to factor in charge-station planning and extending travel times to account for charging.

I expect very few decide to take a random road and simply see where it leads, though...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster

Owners don't seem to go that far in a single trip, or don't mind adapting their lives to factor in charge-station planning and extending travel times to account for charging.

I expect very few decide to take a random road and simply see where it leads, though...

---

Get a high enough density of charging stations combined with satnav that knows where they are, and that'll be easy

I honestly think there is more worth in making public transport zero emissions,and trying to drop the prices,so they can get more people in towns and cities to use it. In the end if we really care about the environment, usage habits will play a part too,and cars IMHO OFC should be more for places and times were public transport would make not much sense,like it used to be ages ago.

Not production, but significantly further
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbnvZlPZZQc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster

People quote him, yes.
People quote Alec Guinness at me fair amount too, but I'm still not using The Force... letting go... trusting my feelings...

How many people own a V8 Diesel Audi A8 and are driving it conservatively enough to get to Edinburgh and back on a single tank?

---

In some cases I don't think people know they are quoting Clarkson, like that Alfa thing. Then it becomes just a "repeated truth"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH

I honestly think there is more worth in making public transport zero emissions,and trying to drop the prices,so they can get more people in towns and cities to use it. In the end if we really care about the environment, usage habits will play a part too,and cars IMHO OFC should be more for places and times were public transport would make not much sense,like it used to be ages ago.

---

Trams are electric and train tracks can be electrified to convert from diesel engines so that could work. Then there's buses which could benefit from this technology. Only thing is public transport already costs the equivalent of driving in most situations, often has delays and cancellations plus the service is just generally over-crowded and rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish. Add on the rise in fares to cover the change to zero-emission technology and it would be even less popular. But you're right, it's the way to go eventually.

Another point about all the EV vehicles would be having the power to supply them all. Like lumireleon said:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lumireleon

ANOTHER important issue: Countries all over the globe only generate 5 to 10% extra electricity (like UK), what will happen if there is a 100% increase of electric cars every year?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH

I honestly think there is more worth in making public transport zero emissions,and trying to drop the prices,so they can get more people in towns and cities to use it. In the end if we really care about the environment, usage habits will play a part too,and cars IMHO OFC should be more for places and times were public transport would make not much sense,like it used to be ages ago.

---

Meh, I am finding driving into work much nicer than faffing about on the train. OFC when the schools go back that will change and I will be back on the train, but fundamentally public transport is a pain: it takes you from one place you don't want to be to another place you don't want to be on a schedule that doesn't really suit you, and if you are lucky you might get to sit down on a grubby seat. Autonomous cars will kill trains, my leather seating is way better than first class and it costs less per mile than the train, I just want a machine to relieve the tedium of commuter driving.

Edit:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chj

Another point about all the EV vehicles would be having the power to supply them all. Like lumireleon said:

---

The problem is peak demand, which is already a problem. What we should be doing is solving that problem with batteries, liquid air or some other storage and sell that technology to other countries.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix

Meh, I am finding driving into work much nicer than faffing about on the train. OFC when the schools go back that will change and I will be back on the train, but fundamentally public transport is a pain: it takes you from one place you don't want to be to another place you don't want to be on a schedule that doesn't really suit you, and if you are lucky you might get to sit down on a grubby seat. Autonomous cars will kill trains, my leather seating is way better than first class and it costs less per mile than the train, I just want a machine to relieve the tedium of commuter driving.

Edit:



The problem is peak demand, which is already a problem. What we should be doing is solving that problem with batteries, liquid air or some other storage and sell that technology to other countries.

---

Autonomous cars won't work for billions of people though and it shows the western world is not really serious about saving the environment and good luck in some of the biggest cities in the world with more cars.

If the western world is addicted to cars then good luck telling all the billions who don't have one to not get one either.

This is why I think all this talk of electric cars is champagne environmentalism.

The western world does not lead by example - it moans at poorer countries did not being ecological friendly enough whilst eating thru resources at the same time.

If you care about the environment then using laziness or time saving as an excuse it's not going to save it until it's too late.

If all the money piddled on cars and the infrastructure was spent on proper affordable public transport and orientating locations more around it things would be much better.

Plus maybe people could also walk and cycle more instead of using the car for everything. Saves all the money spent on the gym,right?;)

It works in other countries.

So basically if the western world CBA to change its usage habits then good luck trying to tell the rest of the world to bother.

They will continue to burn coal,etc since I suspect despite that they will still consume less resources per capita and we have exported lots of the pollution elsewhere.

They look at our luxury standard of living and want the same. Can't blame them and they have as much right to burn thru resources at the same rate!

Edit!!

I am not such an environmentalist myself, but all this electric cars will save the world propaganda is all rather funny and sounds more like people trying to soothe their guilty consciences.

It means nothing if we in the western world don't actually bother to be inconvenienced.

I rather like my conveniences and hobbies so it looks like I am more worried about that than saving the world.

Sad but true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH

Autonomous cars won't work for billions of people though and it shows the western world is not really serious about saving the environment and good luck in some of the biggest cities in the world with more cars.

If the western world is addicted to cars then good luck telling all the billions who don't have one to not get one either.

This is why I think all this talk of electric cars is champagne environmentalism.

The western world does not lead by example - it moans at poorer countries did not being ecological friendly enough whilst eating thru resources at the same time.

If you care about the environment then using laziness or time saving as an excuse it's not going to save it until it's too late.

If all the money piddled on cars and the infrastructure was spent on proper affordable public transport and orientating locations more around it things would be much better.

Plus maybe people could also walk and cycle more instead of using the car for everything. Saves all the money spent on the gym,right?;)

It works in other countries.

So basically if the western world CBA to change its usage habits then good luck trying to tell the rest of the world to bother.

They will continue to burn coal,etc since I suspect despite that they will still consume less resources per capita and we have exported lots of the pollution elsewhere.

They look at our luxury standard of living and want the same. Can't blame them and they have as much right to burn thru resources at the same rate!

---

Sounds a bit like a catch 22 if public transport isn't up to standard because most people use cars but most people use cars because public transport isn't up to scratch/too expensive.

A lot of people won't actively change their schedule to take a longer and more uncomfortable journey by using public transport but if the infrastructure was there i think people will use it. New schemes are being introduced e.g. manchester rolling out the public bicycle hire scheme where you can drop off anywhere. Saying that it's still miles behind places like Amsterdam.

On the whole you need the drive from city councils and government but when people vote in parties which made cuts to renewable energy subsidies it's a bit of a knock back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chj

Sounds a bit like a catch 22 if public transport isn't up to standard because most people use cars but most people use cars because public transport isn't up to scratch/too expensive.

A lot of people won't actively change their schedule to take a longer and more uncomfortable journey by using public transport but if the infrastructure was there i think people will use it. New schemes are being introduced e.g. manchester rolling out the public bicycle hire scheme where you can drop off anywhere. Saying that it's still miles behind places like Amsterdam.

On the whole you need the drive from city councils and government but when people vote in parties which made cuts to renewable energy subsidies it's a bit of a knock back.

---

Read the edit to my post - I am no environmentalist,and far from it.

Years ago I realised I like my standard of living and I am hardly living a millionaires lifestyle,and it's still miles better than many people out there in the world.

Yet sadly it comes with a much bigger environmental footprint and the fact is just putting bandages here and there won't help.

It needs a sea change in how we live our lives and people won't do it and the rest of the world wants what we have.

We can't tell them not to have our standard of living.

I mean I really hope fusion works out as energy is going to be a bigger issue as time progresses. Electric cars just shift the problem elsewhere - if anything we need to be trying to use less energy if any of us REALLY cared.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH

Read the edit to my post - I am no environmentalist,and far from it.

Years ago I realised I like my standard of living and I am hardly living a millionaires lifestyle,and it's still miles better than many people out there in the world.

Yet sadly it comes with a much bigger environmental footprint and the fact is just putting bandages here and there won't help.

It needs a sea change in how we live our lives and people won't do it and the rest of the world wants what we have.

We can't tell them not to have our standard of living.

I mean I really hope fusion works out as energy is going to be a bigger issue as time progresses. Electric cars just shift the problem elsewhere - if anything we need to be trying to use less energy if any of us REALLY cared.

---

Hah yeah can't blame others for wanting what we have. I don't think we'll make a big change until we have to react to something, like the scarcity of fossil fuels, and we have no other choice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH

I mean I really hope fusion works out as energy is going to be a bigger issue as time progresses. Electric cars just shift the problem elsewhere - if anything we need to be trying to use less energy if any of us REALLY cared.

---

I also really hope fusion works, but I fear it is already too late. There is plenty of energy reaching us every day; we are just dreadful at collecting it. That is one advantage an EV does have from an environmental perspective. If I wanted to, I could get solar panels on the roof of my house, a battery pack installed to collect the energy (which will be much cheaper in about 5 years' time as old EV batteries become more available to be re-used for such purposes) and an EV and I could effectively carry on using a car in a carbon neutral way. I think that is the goal people are looking at. In practice only a very few will be able to achieve that, either because of financial or practical issues.

But as with everything, money will be what changes our habits. We drive cars with high MPG figures and low CO2 emissions, not because it helps the environment, but because it's cheaper. If the Government changed the tax bands on VW vehicles following thier scandal, more people would actually care (in the UK at least). People have solar panels because of the ROI they were getting to cover the initial outlay fromt he Governement. People do want to use less energy in gas and electricity and to become more efficient, again because it ultimately saves them money; the environmental benefits are secondary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chj

Hah yeah can't blame others for wanting what we have. I don't think we'll make a big change until we have to react to something, like the scarcity of fossil fuels, and we have no other choice.

---

You are probably right!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gerrard

I also really hope fusion works, but I fear it is already too late. There is plenty of energy reaching us every day; we are just dreadful at collecting it. That is one advantage an EV does have from an environmental perspective. If I wanted to, I could get solar panels on the roof of my house, a battery pack installed to collect the energy (which will be much cheaper in about 5 years' time as old EV batteries become more available to be re-used for such purposes) and an EV and I could effectively carry on using a car in a carbon neutral way. I think that is the goal people are looking at. In practice only a very few will be able to achieve that, either because of financial or practical issues.

But as with everything, money will be what changes our habits. We drive cars with high MPG figures and low CO2 emissions, not because it helps the environment, but because it's cheaper. If the Government changed the tax bands on VW vehicles following thier scandal, more people would actually care (in the UK at least). People have solar panels because of the ROI they were getting to cover the initial outlay fromt he Governement. People do want to use less energy in gas and electricity and to become more efficient, again because it ultimately saves them money; the environmental benefits are secondary.

---

If anything compared to 40 years ago,personal energy use has gone up,which has not been helped by the rise in single occupant households,and people do take more holidays abroad,eat more imported food,etc. OFC,we all want this much better standard of living(including me) but it really comes at a cost,so its why all this talk of electric cars seems a drop in the ocean if we really cared,but like you said its more a case of money we actually care about.

The reason why public transport is looked down on this country(together with walking and cycling) is since governments have orientated everything around cars,and made public transport a business. In plenty of countries around the world,people might have a car,but most of their daily travel is by other means as cars are still a luxury.

As you might have noted I am not against cars at all,but more the usage habits. Not every place can be serviced by public transport,but if had been properly invested in,and we based everything less around cars it would work for large sections of the population,or even trying to make work more flexible(trying to make it possible for people to work from home,instead of having to commute to an office if it is viable OFC). Plus unlike in the US we are not some massive country with huge distances to cover - most of the population is concentrated in small pockets and its why house prices are so high in the first place.

In the end someone doing 30000 miles a year in their EV is still probably going to consume more energy(and probably produce more pollution) than someone who does much less mileage and splits their travel across multiple forms of transport(walking,cycling,public transport and car usage). Also its about time more people stop using "selfish"mobiles and tried things like car sharing - seriously all these cars with one person in them 90% of the time seems an utter waste of resources. FFS,if the government even could try and charged you less tax etc,if you did car share,alone that would be helpful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix

In some cases I don't think people know they are quoting Clarkson, like that Alfa thing. Then it becomes just a "repeated truth"

---

Regardless, people should be realising how subjective a statement it is. I could say the same about a Dodge Challenger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH

Plus maybe people could also walk and cycle more instead of using the car for everything. Saves all the money spent on the gym,right?;)

---

Newsflash - Today the EV nut is slamming cycling, as it results in far more human emmissions than that put out by an EV... Guardian article to substantiate, apparrently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hexus

This weekend saw a very important EV milestone surpassed

---

No it didn't, an economy run like this, driving very slowly on non-standard tyres, bears absolutely no relation to normal driving and amounts to nothing more than a publicity stunt designed to fool gullible potential Tesla buyers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SylvanSagacious

The first link is a clickbait article with zero substance. The youtube video is decent enough I guess, I like Rob Llewellyn and he made decent points, however his show didn't mention that the Leaf in particular tends to have leased batteries with rolling contracts, whereby if the battery efficiency/capacity drops below 75% they get replaced.

Consider also that Tesla owners were going to get shafted with a 25k bill to replace the batteries themselves in case of failure, after the rage Musk conceded and offered an 8 year warranty. For new car buyers thats a big attraction, but for the used car buyers it's going to make Tesla's something to avoid.

Both of these points suggest that the manufacturers know they don't last forever, in particular with Tesla, however they now last much longer than people expected. So Clarkson got something wrong, why does that make him the anti-christ?

Eventually EV will be the standard, but a lot needs to happen between then and now;more advanced energy storage, charging (both speed and availability) and national power production to meet such a massive upscale. All while people feel smug about being green and ignoring the environmental cost of all of this.

---

A lot of the battery lease options are being removed as the manufacturers and customers become more comfortable with the life of a battery pack and the charging control systems that look after them. Already, there are less concerns over fully charging the batteries rather than only to 80% as was the recommendation a year or 2 back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SylvanSagacious

Hogging of charge stations, particularly the free ones, is an issue.

Getting more home charging installations would sort that out, but then it won't be free anymore. The biggest gripe, related to this, is the time it takes to charge a car. It's just so much easier to fill a tank of fuel and go, having to leave your car plugged in for even just half an hour will suck a bit.

---

Having an electric car means that you change the way that you look at 'filling it'. Rather than the common approach with ICE cars, of filling them when they are empty - with EV vehicles, the best approach is to charge them when you reach a destination and at every destination. This means that the car remains topped up and allows for less thinking about when the next charge will be available.

Granted, at the moment, this is more difficult due to the lack of destination chargers but they are coming out and we will get there. In the meantime, the rapid chargers do work to fill the gap and for most peoples usage, i would think that an EV car would be suitable for most of their travel.