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Socking it to the latest Intel 8th Gen U-series CPUs.
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Socking it to the latest Intel 8th Gen U-series CPUs.
Fingers crossed they don't get hobbled by hard drives like all the previous AMD laptops. Looks good from the 3 samples above!
Large Intel kickbacks to OEMs in 3... 2... 1...
Looks to have potential but it's battery life I'm more interested in when it comes to a laptop/tablet these days if I'm honest. Hopefully they'll live up to their claims.
Likewise lets hope these systems ship with 2 sticks of memory for dual channel operation. I've owned a two AMD Laptops in the past. Both came with 1x4GB of DDR3 and it crippled the performance in games.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbouk
Really can't wait until these hit the shelves. Hope you can get one for something approaching £700.
I was about to push the button on an Intel+nVidia laptop combo.. will wait a bit to see if decent business laptops come out with these new chips.
17" HD Screen with 2700U in please! =)
Lenovo appears to use Single channel RAM... strange choice, esp. with a UHD display.
Looking at the AT and NBC articles,only two of the three initial models have dual channel RAM:Quote:
Originally Posted by kalniel
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11964...nd-updated-zen
https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ry....260136.0.html
However,those two models also apparently ship with single channel RAM in the Intel versions.
Would like to see these benchmarked against the MX150 from Nvidia. I was seriously considering getting an ultraportable with one of those in it for a good compromise between work and play. But they are like £900 at the cheapest unless you import the Xioami Mi Air from Gearbeast at £615. Personally I'm not prepared to risk that much money.
They actually look like good buys considering the CPU and GPU performance that these new puppies have.
You can check it on notebookcheck.net, they have benchmarks with MX150 and others. Performance is 10-20% less but in the same ballpark as the mx150, for a few dollars less.
Single channel isn't a big problem, more important for me to get four real cores, 16gb RAM and a little bit of hardware GPU acceleration.Quote:
Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH
So are these zen+ cores, going by the 2XXX branding?
Arstechnica got a different slide pack that included a comparison with the 950M:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobull
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017...out-the-water/
https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-conte...5-1440x810.jpg
Based on pure compute (clock speed * core count), the 950M and MX150 are essentially the same - so the 2700U alone matches an intel CPU paired with a decent nvidia GPU
Oddly enough, arstechnica's slide pack claimed 12W maximum TDP-down consumption whereas hexus & anandtech say 9W
If anything I'd say using single channel is what you want in a notebook and other low power devices, unless you're doing tasks that are pushing large amounts of data around you're probably better off as it lowers latency and power draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalniel
TBF,the Ryzen memory controller is much better than earlier AMD ones:Quote:
Originally Posted by kalniel
https://static.techspot.com/articles...nch/Memory.png
Looking at those numbers,even in single channel mode,RR should easily surpass the numbers for BR in dual channel mode.
But it will impact graphics performance OFC.
Edit!!
It seems the Swift has dual channel RAM too,so its only the Lenovo system which uses single channel,but is much lighter than the other two laptops.
Looking at those scores,it looks like the 2700U,it is between a Ryzen 5 1400 and Ryzen 5 1500X in CB performance,but I assume that is in one of the larger chassis.
It looks like the entry level HP Envy X360 with the Ryzen 5 2500U starts at $699:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11963...h-ryzen-mobile
So probably around £650ish.
4 full cores, 8 threads and a decent GPU in 15 watts! What a world we live in :)
I hope this kicks Intel's ass in sales. I have loved AMD ever since the Athlon days.
sounds good to me... wait till the desktop apus are available
;)
In this segment (if the cheapest Ryzen 7 laptop is going to start at $699) it's not going to hit the bulk sales that much - you're already into the upper segment and I suspect Intel sell orders of magnitude more Atom/Celeron/Pentium-based laptops than Core i7. What it might do is get major OEMs taking notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Millennium
Back when Zen was first being talked about, one of the presentations - targeted at enterprise - detailed a small-die APU with 2 cores and 3 CUs (192 shaders). That's the chip - assuming it exists - that would go into those sub-£400 mass market laptops and really start making waves in market share. And given what they've achieved in 15W with the big die, imagine what they could achieve in terms of clock speeds with a much smaller die....
Going by the overclocking limits of the desktop chips, I expect they'll get somewhere around the same boost speeds as the 2700U&2500U. It'll be a very nice chip for that sector of the market, but can CCX's get split in half like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by scaryjim
I guess they are not quite ready for the mass market in terms of yields and production capacity just yet so starting out a bit higher up and introduce later whilst making a bit more cash would seem to be the way they've decided to goQuote:
Originally Posted by scaryjim
*shrug* AFAIK a CCX is just AMD's name for a particular arrangement of cores and cache. I'm pretty sure it's possible to fab Zen cores in other arrangements. There'd be a big question of how feasible/viable it is, but I'd expect it to be technically possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xlucine
I've found the article and slides that I read it from originally: http://wccftech.com/amd-cpu-roadmap-...-owl-zen-core/ - the APU stuffs about half way down the page. The 2 core version was codenamed "Banded Kestrel" at the time.
The slides are old - February 2016 - so it's certainly possible that AMD's plans have changed, but I can't imagine they'd've released information about something that wasn't technically possible, and I'm confident that they'd've known what they could and couldn't do with Zen cores in Q1 2016.
I'm not going to hold my breath for it, but if it gets released before I replace my current laptop it'll be a complete no brainer for me.
Also there is another reason AMD specifically tested against the Acer Swift 3:
That is the test laptop they used for the Core i5 8550u testing,so AMD was using an Intel laptop with a bigger chassis that would be more forgiving of a CPU:Quote:
The Swift 3 is a little different than the others – we were told that Acer has built this chassis to dissipate 25W of processor power rather than 15W, meaning that Acer is going to be taking advantage of longer turbo modes and better performance numbers than other Ryzen Mobile parts.
https://i.imgur.com/kIMvkOd.jpg
It seems NBC actually tested the lower bin Ryzen 5 2500U,and it still beat the Core i5 8550U in the same chassis:
https://i.imgur.com/q8zYYV4.png
That core of 600 for the Ryzen 5 2500U in the Acer laptop for CB R15 is close to that of an FX8350(!).
Also:
Edit!!Quote:
AMD Ryzen Mobile: Zen 1.5
During our pre-briefings on Ryzen Mobile, it was asked why the two new APUs were using the 2000-series numbers, and not the 1000-series numbers like the desktop parts. It was assumed by the press that the first generation of Ryzen would all be under the 1000-series, including the mobile parts. The response given by Kevin Lensing, AMD’s Corporate VP of the Client Business Unit, was that so many of the design ideas that AMD wanted to put into the original desktop Ryzen (but couldn’t due to time) eventually ended up in Ryzen Mobile, such as the updated precision boost. While there are no architectural changes to Zen to warrant a next-generation microarchitecture name, this version of Ryzen’s periphery (i.e. the power) was more in-line with an original vision and had to be presented as such. This is why we have Ryzen 7 2700U, rather than a Ryzen 7 1700U. He would not comment if the true next generation Ryzen desktop naming would still be the 2000 series, or if we would go straight to 3000. Who knows, it might alternate.
The die size is apparently 209MM2.
Second Edit!!
Picture of CB test run on the Acer laptop:
https://www.computerbase.de/bildstrecke/80377/19/
https://pics.computerbase.de/8/0/4/5....128356661.jpg
https://pics.computerbase.de/8/0/4/5...3338911573.jpg
https://pics.computerbase.de/8/0/4/5...3960788770.jpg
https://pics.computerbase.de/8/0/4/5...0.51782618.jpg
Impressive chips. I hope they're gonna be in some custom chassis' like Clevo
So 9% bigger than Zepplin (192 mm²)? I wondered if they would be able to get the die size any smaller, I guess the answer is no. Isn't going to be cheap then.Quote:
Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH
Why are they testing on Win 8?
That is just what I was thinking. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bagnaj97
The initial releases say from $699 - for the Envy x360 at least - which is comparable to the cost of an equivalent Intel equipped model. So not cheap, but not expensive either. It's the kind of money I'd consider investing in a new laptop, although it's at the very top end of my range. I'd be interested to see performance comparisons between single channel and dual channel memory though; anandtech's write up certainly implies that a lot of Ryzen laptops will ship with single-channel configurations to make upgrading easier...Quote:
Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix
Was looking for something else when I spotted this post from CAT: https://forums.hexus.net/cpus/371038...ml#post3873746Quote:
Originally Posted by scaryjim
It contains links to Videocardz tweets where they mention spotting an engineering sample for 2C/3CU Ryzen Mobile. Looks like it *is* coming ... now, here's hoping my current laptop will hold on long enough.... :O_o1:
Your completely right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagnaj97
I would love to see some lower base clocks from AMD APU's.
This will give their mobile platform excellent battery mileage.
DDR4 is a serious bottleneck for the VEGA graphics. How does this compare to GTX650ti?
Still smaller than BR which is around 250mm2 though!Quote:
Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix
Not really, DDR4 and other system RAM sacrifices bandwidth for lower latency whereas GDDR5 is the opposite, it prioritises bandwidth over latency, IDK exactly how that translates to R7m as AFAIK AMD have worked on some of the technology (iirc tiled based rasterization was one of them, there's probably more) that was meant to be implemented when Vega first launched that reduces the need to shunt large chunks of data back and forth between the RAM and the GPU, that's not to say there will be no effect from using system RAM, just that it will be lessened.Quote:
Originally Posted by lumireleon
If they can deliver 5 hours battery life minimum then worth a consideration for me.
These are offering amazing performance in both CPU and GPU departments.
Even if you get ones with single-channel, just make sure you can upgrade the RAM by getting a stick that's same capacity and frequency-wise and close as possible in timings to enable dual-channel.
This laptop gives people a power of a discrete GPU (GT 1030) and a CPU that's comparable to Intel in single threaded tasks (but only 5% slower in IPC and Intel boosts another 5% higher) and 45% better in multithreaded tasks.
Well worth it from both performance and price point of view.
I'm hoping Intel gets put on a back burner for a while until AMD level the playing field.
RAM is going to be the big issue here as others have stated. Why they've not gone dual channel and high speed as standard I'm really not sure. It really needs to be 16GB dual channel @2400MHz or more to not be completely bottlenecking in my opinion. I was hoping for a large super-cache like on the Xbox One to make up for the weaker memory.
By running two sticks of RAM you'd only gain around 10-15% in a limited number of programs (games, video editing, rendering, CFD, and other stuff that need to shift big chunks of data), the problem is you'd also be looking at reduced battery life, in an ideal world we'd have something faster than 2400Mhz SODIMM's as the speed of the RAM will probably hobble Ryzen Mobile more than dual channels.
World RAM prices have shot up through the roof though,so even if AMD could run faster RAM,it might end up adding too much to the cost of the laptops!! :( I suppose that is one advantage Intel has using eDRAM - it might need another chip,but it does mean less dependence on RAM prices.
However,the issue is adding eDRAM does add to die space,and means more complex packaging which would drive the costs up,and remember AMD does not have as much sway with OEMs as Intel does,so they probably need to present a cost effective solution to them too.
To provide options for the OEMs. If you insist on dual channel and 2400MHz as standard you're going to get OEMs who simply won't go for it, for a variety of reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wozza365
One obvious concern, when you're talking about ultra-light laptops, is power. You want to get away with as small a battery as possible, which means every Watt you can trim from the power budget is crucial. We know from the specs of EPYC processors that dropping from 2400MHz RAM to 2133MHz ram saves 15W of TDP. That's across 8 memory channels, so across 2 memory channels that's almost 4W saved by running slightly slower RAM. Take a whole memory channel out of use (and given the aggressive power management I bet an unused memory channel is completed gated and uses practically no power) and you'll probably save more.
At these power envelopes everything is a balancing act, and power you save in one part of the design can be moved to another. So Lenovo's 13" laptop with single channel 2133MHz RAM is probably going to look really good on battery life, even if it's not hitting the peak performance. Other implementations will support dual channel 2400MHz in larger chassis that can dissipate 25W to make use of the cTDP and get the best possible performance out of the chips. It looks like Ryzen APUs will be flexible enough to cope with a range of scenarios, which can only be a good thing :)