Bitcoin approaches US$10,000 record high

[peterb]

It absolutely is backed by industry. The ransomware industry

Unfair, you left out the dark web.

[Saracen]

It's backed by the entire online business that deals with bitcoin, which is huge.

Consequently I have my doubts as to how much of the market is fuelled by speculation and how much it's backed by actual industry. I suppose this is something we can't actually find out, and largely determines the answer to the question of whether it's currently overpriced.

I think you're missing the point. I didn't say it wasn't backed, I ssid no "such" backup. No matter how huge the BTC online business, it's a pinprick compared to major national governments backing a currrency with a major economy, its asset base, its tax raising and borrowing powers, its ability to directly affect money supply, interest rates, circulation multipliers, etc.

If the currency of a major nation collapses, you pretty much have national societal collapse. Which is why governments do anything and everything to prevent that, like currentingvinterest rates to near zero and humungous QE in the aftermath of the 07/08 banking crisis.

THAT is the type of backup that BTC doesn't have .... and it is simultaneously it's biggest USP and biggest weakness that it doesn't.

[EvilCycle]

This debate is pointless, it is so blindingly obvious that it is going to crash for many reasons, its not "if" but "when".

My last post touched upon government pressure, look what we have here today!

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ders-anonymity

[ik9000]

smashing through the teens now - hit $17000+ earlier. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42275564

[peterb]

I see it hit $19,000 on Monday. I hope all HEXUS members sold then as it has since dropped 30% and is now around $13,000.

[The Hand]

I've gained bit on Ethereum and I'm still holding, but decided things were too mad around Bitcoin so don't have much of it at the moment.

[b0redom]

For anyone who still doesn't think this is a massive bubble.

https://uetoken.com

[adidan]

For anyone who still doesn't think this is a massive bubble.

https://uetoken.com

Now there's an idea

[pp05]

But at least with housing you have a tangible asset which historically has never lost value for long (And is in short supply). Bitcoin and the like are valued for values sake and having nothing to back them up (even $/£ have governments to back them up). This one will crash - its just a case of when. If anyone ever finds a flaw in its implementation a lot of people will get poor fast...

It costs around £1000-1500 approx to mine one of these coins if doing it here. People are willing to invest money into doing just this. So it clearly does have value otherwise no one would.

[b0redom]

It has a value because there's a market demand for it. There is nothing tangible behind that though. Even things like gold and diamonds are useful for something beyond their sparkliness.

Bitcoins are only really useful as an online currency, beyond being around longer they don't seem to offer anything that a myriad of other competitors also offer e.g. Zencash, Etherium and Ripple. In fact it's worse than some of them in terms of transfer/transaction costs. Several governments around the world have started making noises about removing their anonymity which means that using them for various nefarious purposes won't be possible either.

I'm sure people have made pots of cash on crypto currencies. I'm equally sure that they've cashed out when the media started screaming, "Look at the shiny! The shiny will go up forever! Fill yours boots!!"

[pp05]

It has a value because there's a market demand for it. There is nothing tangible behind that though. Even things like gold and diamonds are useful for something beyond their sparkliness.

Bitcoins are only really useful as an online currency, beyond being around longer they don't seem to offer anything that a myriad of other competitors also offer e.g. Zencash, Etherium and Ripple. In fact it's worse than some of them in terms of transfer/transaction costs. Several governments around the world have started making noises about removing their anonymity which means that using them for various nefarious purposes won't be possible either.

I'm sure people have made pots of cash on crypto currencies. I'm equally sure that they've cashed out when the media started screaming, "Look at the shiny! The shiny will go up forever! Fill yours boots!!"

One of the common things spouted is scarcity. There is a limit to the final number to be mined which will be in 120 years time. Then you add in those people who maybe bought a few quid 5 years ago when it was a novelty, got bored and forgot their wallet password. This second group is estimated to be around 4m. So a scarce data token, made more scarce, I don't see it popping anytime soon.
I would be surprised if it's less than 25k next December just on the above alone.

It's still 5 years out before it's mainstream. No decent wallets or interfaces that it badly needs. But the speculation and swings will attract developers and individuals with cash.

[Mr_Jon]

It's like every individual black market from around the world rolled into one. There'll always be money that people want/need to hide for whatever their reasons, and digital currency brings this all together in one place due to it's anonymity. I think what we're seeing is just the beginning.

[b0redom]

One of the common things spouted is scarcity. There is a limit to the final number to be mined which will be in 120 years time. Then you add in those people who maybe bought a few quid 5 years ago when it was a novelty, got bored and forgot their wallet password. This second group is estimated to be around 4m. So a scarce data token, made more scarce, I don't see it popping anytime soon.
I would be surprised if it's less than 25k next December just on the above alone.

It's still 5 years out before it's mainstream. No decent wallets or interfaces that it badly needs. But the speculation and swings will attract developers and individuals with cash.

Except tokens aren't really that scarce. That's why there's over a thousand cryptocurrencies around at the moment.

My used trainers are scarce, I only produce a few pairs a year. They have more intrinsic value than a bitcoin because despite being a bit stinky, they keep your feet warm.

Tell you what, you give me $25k, and I'll issue you a stinky trainer token. It'll be the only one in the world and by virtue of that potentially worth $billions.

[b0redom]

It's like every individual black market from around the world rolled into one. There'll always be money that people want/need to hide for whatever their reasons, and digital currency brings this all together in one place due to it's anonymity. I think what we're seeing is just the beginning.

I think you're wrong. Korea have announced that they are going to clamp down on it's anonymity. If you really want something that has no footprint, you'd be better served in hard cash and/or assets like gold/diamonds.

[pp05]

Except tokens aren't really that scarce. That's why there's over a thousand cryptocurrencies around at the moment.

My used trainers are scarce, I only produce a few pairs a year. They have more intrinsic value than a bitcoin because despite being a bit stinky, they keep your feet warm.

Tell you what, you give me $25k, and I'll issue you a stinky trainer token. It'll be the only one in the world and by virtue of that potentially worth $billions.

It's scarcity alone won't be the reason for its value. Like your stinky trainers it will be how many people get to wear them and find it is their size and fits their needs. The more people who are the same size, they can adjust to the activity makes them valuable.

[ik9000]

I think you're wrong. Korea have announced that they are going to clamp down on it's anonymity. If you really want something that has no footprint, you'd be better served in hard cash and/or assets like gold/diamonds.

diamonds are laser etched. Very very traceable. It's unmarked diamonds that are the subject of crackdowns to try and limit the blood diamond trade out of the Congo etc. Interestingly another key resource for the warmongers there are ores used in flat panel TV screens. One of the few places they can be got (readily and abundantly). No-one seems too fussed to restrict those at this time.