Star Citizen selling plots of land for up to $120

[cheesemp]

Wow, a whole two hours on Elite..... That's barely enough time to go through half the training missions, and yet you harp on about not giving Star Citizen a look??!! I'm guessing you never even undocked, much less got to driving around planetside, levelling up with a faction, or anything?
Having played both since their respective Alphas*, you've barely got past the title page on what Elite has available for you to do right now today and they have already charted 10 years worth of seasonal updates... while Star Citizen is still just a graphically intensive buggy mess with ever-worsening designs, missed targets and dubious reputations.


More like they're still in the car park, munching on their 3rd ice-cream and wondering how they'll get people to fund their 4th...!


*Yes, I know Star Citizen is promising great things and still claims to only be in "pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-Alpha" stage, like some sort of forgotten homework excuse... but the more they harp on, the more we lose faith.

I did undock - traded between two stations. I even attacked a few ships but it didn't grab me as I just didn't like the combat and couldn't face grinding to get a better ship. I don't know why you take offence to that. For the record I bought in when it dropped in price but before the planetary landing was added. I wasn't going to put any more money down at that point as it obviously wasn't for me. Again coming back to the point I keep raise - spend or don't spend - its up to you...

I really didn't and don't want to turn this into an Elite vs Starcitizen post. If Elite does what you want then great but don't forget Elite has had its own controversies like dropping single player...

[cheesemp]

I get that, although in my WoW playing days 25 hours would have been a good weekend

But my main point here isn't that no game exists, it is that for the effort and money expended it should be complete. OK Elite isn't your kettle of fish, but the game was developed by competent people. It sounds like Elite had a quarter of the workforce (100 people) and a fraction of the money (budget of £20M which it sounds like they missed), and yet right now it is the game where there are distress calls going out to move people out of burning star ports that are being attacked by aliens, because they have a platform on which to build their story. If with nearly a magnitude more money and roughly the same amount of time SC has, in comparison, so little then that bodes very badly for the future.

Edit: Let me put it another way: It is like the Elite team were planning a 5 mile hike and the SC team were planning a 50 mile hike, and they both started about the same time. The Elite team wore proper hiking boots, and the SC team wore flipflops. Fast forward, and the Elite team finished their 5 mile hike 3 years ago and have completed a couple more hikes since. The SC team are about 3 miles in and hope to make up time by getting more people to wear more flipflops.

Sometimes it isn't just about results so far, how you go about a project is important for so many reasons like code quality and how/if a project will survive after initial release. What I read about SC development just makes my skin crawl. I think that biases me against trying the game, though not enjoying Wing Commander doesn't help there either.

25 hours is probably my fourth highest number of hours in a game (I think Pax imperium 2 (showing my age there), master of orion 2 and world of tanks beat it (edit - Oops - Total War Medieval 2, COD Black ops, Battlefield BC2 as well looking at my gamer board but none of those have been since I became a dad)). I'm a dad now so have even less time to play so what time I have I make sure I spend it carefully. Anyway I do understand what you are saying - I'm a dev myself (14 years experience). I've seen CIG explain a lot of the decision's they've made that have resulted in delays - having seen rushed games like Mass Effect Andromeda I'd rather the get it right than rush it (and this is a common view in the community). I've also appreciated the JURA boards excepts and burn down charts they have been showing recently along with highlights of development meetings they have as its so different from the traditional development I do.

[DanceswithUnix]

I really didn't and don't want to turn this into an Elite vs Starcitizen post.

Agreed, but you have already spent the money so it might be nice to find why you didn't like it and see if we can get more played hours and better value for you. I can assure you if/when SC actually ships & if they aren't asking silly money for it then I will be asking plenty of questions about playing that

What controller were you using for Elite? I just couldn't get on with keyboard controls, game pad was just about playable but not fun, I needed a HOTAS properly configured to hit anything in combat.
What didn't you like about combat? There are lots of options for configuring a ship so you can probably find something that fits your style.
You might also find it is worth re-running the training missions. When I started playing they were rubbish, but I tried them again recently when I got a Rift and didn't want to risk millions of credits of a proper ship and didn't recognise them. I'm sure the combat before was some silly shoot the barrels setup, this was much better though the advanced combat tutorial might put people off as it was quite hard and I don't think you need to be that good in game to start playing.

[Ttaskmaster]

I did undock - traded between two stations. I even attacked a few ships but it didn't grab me as I just didn't like the combat and couldn't face grinding to get a better ship.

Yeh, that's barely getting started.
Remember this is a game that's supposed to take time and most people know there's a learning curve at the beginning. Plus it is absolutely massive with many thousands of stations... but you've only visted two of them.

I don't know why you take offence to that.

I don't take offense at all, I'm just curious as to why you'd not give one game the same fair crack as the other...
In Elite, less than 2 hours is not even enough to look at your starting system and all the things you might do at your starting station, much less give the game a proper look by doing any of them - Yet you'd put that down in the same way other people frustrate you by putting SC down?
Heck, 2 hours in Star Citizen is barely anything, either...

Again coming back to the point I keep raise - spend or don't spend - its up to you...

Play or don't play, it's up to you.

If Elite does what you want then great but don't forget Elite has had its own controversies like dropping single player...

Not quite - That was Offline mode, which was never really going to be possible for a player-influenced dynamic economy across 400 billion star systems. However, it retains the single player mode.
But then, this isn't about Elite vs Star Citizen, right.....?

[cheesemp]

Agreed, but you have already spent the money so it might be nice to find why you didn't like it and see if we can get more played hours and better value for you. I can assure you if/when SC actually ships & if they aren't asking silly money for it then I will be asking plenty of questions about playing that

What controller were you using for Elite? I just couldn't get on with keyboard controls, game pad was just about playable but not fun, I needed a HOTAS properly configured to hit anything in combat.
What didn't you like about combat? There are lots of options for configuring a ship so you can probably find something that fits your style.
You might also find it is worth re-running the training missions. When I started playing they were rubbish, but I tried them again recently when I got a Rift and didn't want to risk millions of credits of a proper ship and didn't recognise them. I'm sure the combat before was some silly shoot the barrels setup, this was much better though the advanced combat tutorial might put people off as it was quite hard and I don't think you need to be that good in game to start playing.

To be honest I don't remember. It was either KBM or a or really cheap joystick. It maybe i'd get on better if I tried it again however I'm really into story based single players at the moment with the extremely limited time I have available (1 or 2 hours a week at the moment) and I guess that's why I've enjoyed Arena Commander in SC - jump in fight done. I will promise you this, I will try the tutorial again and see if I get on better - I do remember feel dumped in a station with nothing to do but simple cargo runs. Has it got any form of story yet? (To be honest I'm more waiting for squadron 42 the single player game of SC than the MMO purely for the story).

[Millennium]

"But then, this isn't about Elite vs Star Citizen, right.....?"

oh Jesus someone break out the seaweed snacks we're in for it now. Bring it on I say..

[Pob255]

Sounds like you don't want star citizen but something along the lines of wing commander or freespace and so would I
The closest thing I found in recent years was Strike Suit Zero
I'd love some more of these type of single player games, also mecha sim single player too

[cheesemp]

Sounds like you don't want star citizen but something along the lines of wing commander or freespace and so would I
The closest thing I found in recent years was Strike Suit Zero
I'd love some more of these type of single player games, also mecha sim single player too

I miss freespace 1 and 2 so much (and Tie fighter which got me into PC Gaming) - FS2 is still my pinnacle of gaming however squadron 42 is exactly what I want. SC is just a nice extra as the universe is so detailed and ripe for exploring but I'll never bother building a big empire - I just don't have the time. Just waiting on the new SQ42 trailer due out on Thursday (which is again why the timing of this lawsuit makes me believe its been targeted to try and force a quick settlement which makes it stink IMHO).

[Ttaskmaster]

I will promise you this, I will try the tutorial again and see if I get on better - I do remember feel dumped in a station with nothing to do but simple cargo runs.

That is pretty much how Elite 1984 began - 100 Credits and a lightly armed Cobra mkIII parked at Lave station, with the entire galaxy for you to find your way in. No story fed to you, you find your own way. It was stunning, unique and very special back in 1984, but these days it's the selling point of so many games it's become an utter cliche - "Trade, Fight, Explore, in a universe of infinite possibility"... which is now most space games on Steam, these days.
Elite just does a lot of it very well.

I expect Star Citizen is going to be pretty much the same idea, just with more emphasis on glitz and less on teh mechanics. You'll still be going to the same old bars, talking to the same three people for slight variations on the same old missions, like Freelancer was.

Has it got any form of story yet? (To be honest I'm more waiting for squadron 42 the single player game of SC than the MMO purely for the story).

There is quite a lot in terms of main story, minor stories and mini-series with all the goings on. The only downside to Elite is that this stuff is only really publicised on forums and in text-only optional newsfeeds and emails, with the occasional YouTube video for the really big stuff. A few incidents have made the BBC news, but that's it. They need some kind of forced broadcast, maybe at the stations and stuff.
For example, a whole station just got hit by Thargoids - One would expect that to be on every ship comms channel throughout inhabited space!

Squadron 42 sounds like a scaled down version of Starlancer, to be honest, which is mostly "jump in, fight, done" with a very little bit of 'story' told in the form of news broadcasts about The War, mainly about which unit fought which and which side is winning.
That's how it appears, based on the descriptions so far and is purely a short optional campaign to give each of your new characters some military service that results in Citizenship... which gives that character a slight starting bonus in the main game. It's not needed to play SC and only serves as a vehicle for in-game mechanics, such as tutorials and a way to pass your now-dead first character's remaining assets on to your new character. I imagine it will get pretty boring by the 3rd or 4th time around...

I miss freespace 1 and 2 so much (and Tie fighter which got me into PC Gaming) - FS2 is still my pinnacle of gaming however squadron 42 is exactly what I want.

Have you played the 'Diaspora: Shattered Armistice' mod for Freespace 2?
It's a very highly acclaimed total conversion mod, set in the Battlestar Galactica universe... and is FREE!!

[Xlucine]

...also mecha sim single player too

Mechwarrior 5 hype! Just a year to go!

[DanceswithUnix]

For example, a whole station just got hit by Thargoids - One would expect that to be on every ship comms channel throughout inhabited space!

Three stations, shows how well the situation is described
I visited two of them today, gave a ride out to a few hundred refugees (80 at a time in the Python). Fun stuff, was about the right level of difficulty I thought where I did think I was finished at one point. There was a huge explosion next to the pad I was landing on blowing me sideways and forcing me to do a second approach which with everything burning around me and already taking heat damage I didn't really have.

In a similar vein, I just noticed the announcement of the Type10 Defender. A new ship design as a result of the Thargoid threat, tucked away as a note on the launch screen. It was probably in the weekly email, but I hardly ever read that.

[cheesemp]

That is pretty much how Elite 1984 began - 100 Credits and a lightly armed Cobra mkIII parked at Lave station, with the entire galaxy for you to find your way in. No story fed to you, you find your own way. It was stunning, unique and very special back in 1984, but these days it's the selling point of so many games it's become an utter cliche - "Trade, Fight, Explore, in a universe of infinite possibility"... which is now most space games on Steam, these days.
Elite just does a lot of it very well.

I missed the original Elite versions (not quite old enough) but my older brother loved them. I never had the patience at that age... (just as I don't have the time now)

I expect Star Citizen is going to be pretty much the same idea, just with more emphasis on glitz and less on teh mechanics. You'll still be going to the same old bars, talking to the same three people for slight variations on the same old missions, like Freelancer was.

No they've been working hard on an AI NPC system to generate missions via a verity of methods. This is just been previewed in 3.0 with a few characters (one of which is in a bar ). You'll also get missions via mobiglass which is a sort of VR apple watch (which was previewed in 2.0 but more advanced with star map etc in 3.0). They do have a lot of mechanics planned but until they are available hard to judge...

There is quite a lot in terms of main story, minor stories and mini-series with all the goings on. The only downside to Elite is that this stuff is only really publicised on forums and in text-only optional newsfeeds and emails, with the occasional YouTube video for the really big stuff. A few incidents have made the BBC news, but that's it. They need some kind of forced broadcast, maybe at the stations and stuff.
For example, a whole station just got hit by Thargoids - One would expect that to be on every ship comms channel throughout inhabited space!

For SC they are planning for news ships that can broadcast in game - how well it work in practice will be interesting. I guess this is the benefit to have only 200 systems rather than a galaxy!

Squadron 42 sounds like a scaled down version of Starlancer, to be honest, which is mostly "jump in, fight, done" with a very little bit of 'story' told in the form of news broadcasts about The War, mainly about which unit fought which and which side is winning.
That's how it appears, based on the descriptions so far and is purely a short optional campaign to give each of your new characters some military service that results in Citizenship... which gives that character a slight starting bonus in the main game. It's not needed to play SC and only serves as a vehicle for in-game mechanics, such as tutorials and a way to pass your now-dead first character's remaining assets on to your new character. I imagine it will get pretty boring by the 3rd or 4th time around...

No its supposed to be more free form - take a mission then tackle it how you like (i.e. sneak in a low profile ship then using FPS take the base or go in all guns blazing) - It uses the planetary tech the ex-Crytek guys in Germany came up with to make it more flexible. Its also supposed to be 3 full games via the 3 campaigns they have planned.

Have you played the 'Diaspora: Shattered Armistice' mod for Freespace 2?
It's a very highly acclaimed total conversion mod, set in the Battlestar Galactica universe... and is FREE!!

No - I keep meaning to get freespace open running again when I get time...

[Ttaskmaster]

I missed the original Elite versions (not quite old enough) but my older brother loved them. I never had the patience at that age... (just as I don't have the time now)

It was awesome... That and Star Raiders II.

But a bit of reading on Elite would give a lot of people a far better idea of what an Elite game is meant to be and save lot of time wasted on ranty reviews about how it's not what it was never meant to be...

No they've been working hard on an AI NPC system to generate missions via a verity of methods. This is just been previewed in 3.0 with a few characters (one of which is in a bar ). You'll also get missions via mobiglass which is a sort of VR apple watch (which was previewed in 2.0 but more advanced with star map etc in 3.0). They do have a lot of mechanics planned but until they are available hard to judge...

If it goes anything like the way the ship designs and flight mechanics have, I'll almost certainly lose further interest.

No its supposed to be more free form - take a mission then tackle it how you like (i.e. sneak in a low profile ship then using FPS take the base or go in all guns blazing) - It uses the planetary tech the ex-Crytek guys in Germany came up with to make it more flexible.

But still the basic rock up, fight, finish sort of idea...?

Its also supposed to be 3 full games via the 3 campaigns they have planned.

Will have to see, although the history of Chris Roberts Grand Designs does leave me with a lot of doubt still.

No - I keep meaning to get freespace open running again when I get time...

Do it!!! Make time!!!
I recently got a friend into it, despite his perpetual on-call status supporting MTV's array of channel control apps. Best non-Elite space game he's played to date!!