Ryzen 2 supported on AM4 confirms AMD product manager

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Originally Posted by MLyons

But it already has... :shocked2::O_o1:

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Pfft, give me a break.

I bought my Core i9-7900X about 2 weeks before Threadripper officially became available for about £850. Today on Amazon, Scan and Overclockers they are all at the same price if not more, so no it hasn't. Threadripper hasn't even made the slightest dent in Core i9 pricing and Vega 64 is only marginally cheaper (about £50) than a 1080Ti ... IF YOU CAN EVEN FIND ONE IN STOCK!

I'm deliberately comparing top-end products because everything else should fall in underneath that.

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Originally Posted by rainman

Well if my argument is invalid you should have no trouble driving a bus through it. So why don't you 'man up' and engage, counter the argument and tell me I'm wrong? Instead of taking the easy way out ... ?

I'm no sycophant and on any one day I'll buy whatever I feel is the right choice for me. If I have a downer on AMD then it's only because I truly feel that their offerings are second-rate - at this point in time. No one wants AMD to whoop Intel more than me, because we desperately need competition and it's currently a monopoly. For you, if you think that AMD are doing enough and it fits your budget then that's fine. But AMD being "close enough" to Intel or Nvidia just isn't enough. It's not competition and it won't drive down Intel or Nvidia's pricing. If you can't see that and you honestly think I'm just blatantly AMD bashing then you really are a fanboi ... and yes, fanboi is the correct term. AMD HAVE to do more, for all our sakes. They are obligated to hold Intels feet to the fire and make the market work properly, because there is no one else to do it.

Join the debate or gtfo.

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Being close enough HAS dropped intels pricing, and it has made them finally release standard desktop cpus with more than 4 cores.

BTW,the questions were asked by OcUK forum members,and the AMD chap actually answered a few I had which were:

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Will Ryzen 2 in 2019 be compatible with the current motherboards or will people need to buy a motherboard with a new chipset for that??

Will FP16 seen more use in future games,and is AMD working on getting more PC games to use it??

What impact do you think technologies like HBCC,will have in managing the increasing VRAM requirements of modern games??

Will AMD work closer with companies like Bethesda and Blizzard to make further optimisations for certain older games like Fallout 4 and WoW with Ryzen(Fallout 4 being one of the most poorly optimised games for Ryzen, due to its use of the Creation engine and can draw down averages if used in reviews)?? I am only asking that since I know AMD works with Bethesda,and I have not seen much in the way of performance improvements in Fallout 4 on Ryzen since launch.

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I wanted to specifically ask(and so did someone else on OcUK) about the motherboard situation. AMD had hinted at the socket lasting but its the first time someone at AMD has mentioned they are trying to work towards making the 2019 CPUs compatible with current motherboards.

Some things he did confirm was that AMD has two teams working on Zen - one for Zen2 and another on the Zen refresh being made on a "new GF process" so that hints strongly at perhaps GF 12NM.

Regarding the specific games question,he mentioned it depends on the community feedback,so if people make enough noise AMD will look into it,and the OcUK bloke mentioned FO4 VR.Hmm?

Also regarding the motherboards - I think it is a good thing if AMD is doing that,since it means you can source a replacement motherboard for your system much easier as time progresses.

I was very lucky to be able to source a motherboard for my IB system,when it went kaput just out of warranty,but any longer it might have been an issue(its a mini-ITX system).

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Originally Posted by scaryjim

I expect a computer platform to last at least 4 or 5 years

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And that's my point exactly! Thank you!

If you expect your chosen solution (CPU and Motherboard) to last 4 to 5 years before you upgrade then why do you care about the socket?

Surely you're not expecting the carry 4 or 5 years of legacy architecture forward to your next upgrade too? We've had how many different USB variants within the last 4 or 5 years? We've changed PCI-E versions, we have M2 on board, loads of stuff which is reliant on chipsets where I'd have to buy a new board regardless of the socket, so for anyone interested in keeping pace with peripheral connectivity options the socket is irrelevant because I'm buying a new board anyway. You wouldn't forgo having all those goodies for a period of 8 to 10 years just so you can upgrade a CPU twice on a board to avoid buying a new board, because that's what you will compromise if you get your way. You miss out on all the other stuff which is arguably more important for some folk. I know I'd miss the latest USB 3.1 stuff.

All I'm saying is focusing purely on retaining the socket doesn't give the full picture - there is so much more going on than just the CPU which means you'll probably want to change your board on your next upgrade anyway.

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Originally Posted by rainman

... I'm deliberately comparing top-end products because everything else should fall in underneath that.

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Really? You're supporting your argument based on an assumption about how the world works, using a data set of one point? Well, I'm convinced...

EDIT for crosspost:

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Originally Posted by rainman

And that's my point exactly! Thank you!

If you expect your chosen solution (CPU and Motherboard) to last 4 to 5 years before you upgrade then why do you care about the socket?

Surely you're not expecting the carry 4 or 5 years of legacy architecture forward to your next upgrade too? ...

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Note that I said platform, not solution. I also pointed out that my desktops often last longer.

So you're arguing against a point I didn't make.

I expect the platform to last at least 4 - 5 years. I expect to want better performance in maybe 3 years. At that p[oint, I want to upgrade the part that needs more performance, without replacing the entire system.

So no, I wasn't making your point. I was making mine.

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Originally Posted by rainman

snip

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Funny you went with an HEDT platform which tends to have a much longer socket life.

I still won't hold my breath, too many cases in the past of some boards or CPUs not making compatibility for some reason or another.

While it's a nice gesture, I'll buy at the time, not worth risking future comparability.

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Originally Posted by badass

Just did a quick check of your last score of posts or so.

Nothing but attacking AMD or defending/bigging Intel, sprinkled with some router related posts.

Including Threadripper, Vega, now Ryzen 2.

My suspicion was aroused when you used the work Fanbois. Only "fanbois" ever use that word.

Thus it is clear that regardless of what AMD produce, no matter how good, you will trash it. The same in reverse for Intel.

This makes your opinion completely worthless to anyone and everyone if the subject involves AMD or Intel

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“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”


― George Carlin

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Originally Posted by shaithis

I still won't hold my breath, too many cases in the past of some boards or CPUs not making compatibility for some reason or another.

While it's a nice gesture, I'll buy at the time, not worth risking future comparability.

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It might be a tad different with Ryzen due to the way it works. The chipset essentially adds extra functionality,but the CPU itself is a SOC,which you can tell as the lowest end A300/X300 boards,actually don't have any external chipset. Asus has,for example,already updated their latest Ryzen BIOSes for Raven Ridge,which is actually slightly different from bog standard Ryzen(boost is actually more advanced).

At the very least it does mean,if you have built a Ryzen system for someone,if their motherboard goes it will be much easier to source a replacement down the line.

While Intel taking are taking the mickey as Asus said CFL would work with the Z270 motherboard,and someone on Overclock.net manage to mod a Z170 motherboard to run a Core i3 8350K!

Many of the Z370 motherboards look like Z270 ones with only slight differences.

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Originally Posted by rainman

Well if my argument is invalid you should have no trouble driving a bus through it. So why don't you 'man up' and engage, counter the argument and tell me I'm wrong? Instead of taking the easy way out ... ?<snip>
Join the debate or gtfo.

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There is no point. Your mind is made. So why should I - or anyone else bother?

Maybe when you grow up a bit you'll see for yourself.

I dont like editing posts, especially when the policy on language is explicitly stated here https://forums.hexus.net/faq.php?faq...q_hex_swearing which I would ask KN1GHT and rainman to read... 'K?

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Originally Posted by rainman

All I'm saying is focusing purely on retaining the socket doesn't give the full picture - there is so much more going on than just the CPU which means you'll probably want to change your board on your next upgrade anyway.

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I love having systems on a common socket. When something goes bang I can chop and change parts to find the failure, and have some chance of buying a replacement part.

I have various old Intel boxes and processors kicking around, none of them can be affordably repaired, none of them have the same socket.

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Originally Posted by rainman

Surely you're not expecting the carry 4 or 5 years of legacy architecture forward to your next upgrade too? We've had how many different USB variants within the last 4 or 5 years? We've changed PCI-E versions, we have M2 on board, loads of stuff which is reliant on chipsets where I'd have to buy a new board regardless of the socket, so for anyone interested in keeping pace with peripheral connectivity options the socket is irrelevant because I'm buying a new board anyway. You wouldn't forgo having all those goodies for a period of 8 to 10 years just so you can upgrade a CPU twice on a board to avoid buying a new board, because that's what you will compromise if you get your way. You miss out on all the other stuff which is arguably more important for some folk. I know I'd miss the latest USB 3.1 stuff.

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The issues with older USB variants can be quickly, easily, and cheaply resolved with a PCI-E add-in card. Same with NVMe (though booting off of it may be problematic with Windows). Sure you can't upgrade the PCI-E generation on the motherboard itself, but people who expect their platforms to last 3-5 years probably don't give a flying whatsit that their PCI-E lanes are slightly slower.

A side-point: it's significantly easier to increase the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) when you select a platform that'll last a lot longer (and thus is significantly cheaper in the long-term).

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Originally Posted by afiretruck

The issues with older USB variants can be quickly, easily, and cheaply resolved with a PCI-E add-in card. Same with NVMe (though booting off of it may be problematic with Windows). Sure you can't upgrade the PCI-E generation on the motherboard itself, but people who expect their platforms to last 3-5 years probably don't give a flying whatsit that their PCI-E lanes are slightly slower.

A side-point: it's significantly easier to increase the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) when you select a platform that'll last a lot longer (and thus is significantly cheaper in the long-term).

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I was still under the impression PCI bandwidth wasn't an issue except for storage

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Originally Posted by MLyons

I was still under the impression PCI bandwidth wasn't an issue except for storage

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It's not, really. Maybe Vega-like GPU architectures in the future (with their HBM cache) will push the bus harder by using system RAM as a backing store to the on-GPU memory.

The only issue I can think of, as you suggested, is when using an NVMe to PCI-E adapter card on a PCI-E 2.0 or older slot. The adapter's limited to 4x, and the higher-end NVMe SSDs will saturate PCI-E 2.0 x4 before hitting 2GB/s (ish).

I see where Rainman is coming from, I think he is not really so clear about where others are coming from. It is not just about upgrades, it can also be to buy a low end CPU to get you back into productive work. It is also great to go from a 4 core 8 thread CPU to a 16 core 32 thread, if that is not more significant than a GPU upgrade I do not know what is. It also means if your watercooling fails and blows an expensive CPU you have a multiple choice of replacements (I have had to do this and it cost me £50 to get back up and running). I have avoided intel for nearly three decades, and still see no reason to go intel. They are more expensive, less CPU choice per mobo, and to be very honest for no realtime gain or DATA accuracy. intel make great hardware, there is no doubt about that. They are not so much user orientated though with more thoughts aimed at profit margins than user satisfaction. If intel wanted to do what AMD does then I am quite sure their methods would be far superior yet they choice to force the upgrade. I say well done AMD for sticking to their values of only changing sockets when it is truly necessary.