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Thread: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

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    Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    And Huawei adds AI functionality to make the cameras even more capable.
    Read more.

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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    What's more interesting is Huawei managed to integrate a 1/1.7" imaging sensor without affecting the thinness of the phone. So it just proves Apple and Samsung use tiny chips to cut costs.

    Edit!!

    I also like the fact the "tele" lens section is actually a more useful 80MM equivalent as opposed to the 50MM equivalent other companies use.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 28-03-2018 at 06:11 PM.


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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    That Notch! =/

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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    is there away to make the OLED panel transparent around the camera and IR sensor? so that when you want to use the front facing camera the OLED around that area switch off allowing direct ambient light to the camera sensor.

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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    Genuine ingenuity in an ugly phone :\

    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33 View Post
    I understand why they're so good.. but it's the WOOD I need

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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    Wonder how much Chinese Spy Software that NPU can run at once

    In seriousness though I hate notches but really like their way of hiding it. Interesting approach to cameras, pity smartphones are so stupidly expensive now. A lot cheaper than Samsung/Apple but still about €200 too much

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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    40MP on a sensor that small... I'd be very interested to test it against my ageing 6MP DSLR. I had a 20MP sensor on my HTC M9 and it was great in ideal conditions (shutter lag of nearly 2 seconds was never good but hey) and I do notice the lack of cropability when compared to my 12MP Samsung S8. The pictures on the S8 are better, there's no doubt about that and sometimes they're stunning and way better than I can produce with my DSLR (that's probably a HDR thing - my DSLR came out in 2004). The issue with a 40MP sensor is going to be noise at higher ISOs. You can use some kind of noise reduction in the temporal domain to help but whether that can be as good as just having a lower MP sensor with less noise is going to be a biggie. The other issue is going to be storage. Google drive is usually the backup of choice and that is easily filled with a 12MP camera. 40MP will rape your cloud storage.

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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by philehidiot View Post
    40MP on a sensor that small... I'd be very interested to test it against my ageing 6MP DSLR. I had a 20MP sensor on my HTC M9 and it was great in ideal conditions (shutter lag of nearly 2 seconds was never good but hey) and I do notice the lack of cropability when compared to my 12MP Samsung S8. The pictures on the S8 are better, there's no doubt about that and sometimes they're stunning and way better than I can produce with my DSLR (that's probably a HDR thing - my DSLR came out in 2004). The issue with a 40MP sensor is going to be noise at higher ISOs. You can use some kind of noise reduction in the temporal domain to help but whether that can be as good as just having a lower MP sensor with less noise is going to be a biggie. The other issue is going to be storage. Google drive is usually the backup of choice and that is easily filled with a 12MP camera. 40MP will rape your cloud storage.
    The Hexus article does not explain it well but apparently they are using pixel binning in the final output image:

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/011662...e-image-sensor
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/12578...race-the-notch

    The output is basically 10MP,but one has to ask the question why they didn't just make it a 10MP sensor in the first place.

    Edit!!

    The AT link has some test pictures.

    Second Edit!!

    Looking at the 10MP mode,there seems to be noticeably better DR in low light scenes when compared to the S9,which is supposed to the best phone on the market for low light pictures.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 28-03-2018 at 06:17 PM.


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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    Wow, 3 cameras on the back and one on the front. That has set the bar to a new height. Looking forward to the next great leap forward with 4 cameras on the back.

    That will be truly awesome!

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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Wow, 3 cameras on the back and one on the front. That has set the bar to a new height. Looking forward to the next great leap forward with 4 cameras on the back.

    That will be truly awesome!

    /sarcasm

    (yes, I know, sarcasm, the sharp edge of a blunt mind... )
    Isn't Nokia working on a phone with 5 cameras??


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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    Such a shame they have included a notch - the phone would be so much better without it I really hope this tanks and doesn't sell (along with all the other notch phones!) before this becomes the norm. It also means that lots of people like me will only really talk about the fact it has an ugly notch in the screen rather than all the other good things about it. Huawei can make great high end phones if they want to (the P9 was a steal at the time and a great phone to match).

    I'll keep my notch free S8 thank you very much

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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    AFAIK it uses pixel averaging to produce better low light pictures in conjunction with the 20mp monochrome sensor.
    And the notch is here to stay - Android P has native support.
    Bigger sensor isn't always the answer - always a compromise between sensor size, mp and pixel size. 12mp on smaller size sensors appears to be pretty much a good match which is why the Sony and Samsung sensors for the past few generations have been that
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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    AFAIK it uses pixel averaging to produce better low light pictures in conjunction with the 20mp monochrome sensor.
    And the notch is here to stay - Android P has native support.
    Bigger sensor isn't always the answer - always a compromise between sensor size, mp and pixel size. 12mp on smaller size sensors appears to be pretty much a good match which is why the Sony and Samsung sensors for the past few generations have been that
    It's mostly a cost thing - it's why cheapo £100 compacts used 1/2.3" to 1/2.8," sensors and prosumer compacts used 1/1.7" to 2/3" sensors for a decade.



    A 12MP 1/1.7" sensor would just be better in most scenarios. Also my actual realworld experience of using similar generation cameras with 1/2.3" and 1/1.7" sensors(similar MP),it was actually pretty noticeable how the latter simply had better DR and better low light capability. It was even seen with the Pentax Q system which was a tiny interchangeable lens system - the last model moved to a 1/1.7" sensor from a 1/2.3" one.

    Huawei has basically shown there is no reason why the cameras have cheap to make 1/3" to 1/2.3" sensors which only exist to reduce costs. They integrated a 1/1.7" sensor into a slim phone with no visible hump. People argued saying it wasn't possible - I told people there was no real reason they couldn't increase sensor size. Plus they even integrated a useful medium telephoto 80MM lens,with Samsung/Apple stuck at 50MM due to cost.

    For over £500 they need to do better and why Apple and Samsung are losing sales to rivals.

    Edit!!

    This is what is more amazing when you look at it closely.





    The Samsung might have the edge in detail due to better jpeg processing when comparing it to the 10MP mode on the Huawei,but look at home much more DR the Huawei has(the bottom image) and the fact the output seems to have not got as desaturated.

    Also look at the difference between the 2X camera on the Samsung and the 3X camera on the Huawei.





    The reach is much greater on the Huawei.

    I would never imagine the day Huawei,could actually fight with the big boys when it came to high end smartphones,especially the camera part.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 28-03-2018 at 09:55 PM.


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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    With that Res, low light performance and super slow Mo all the upskirters here in Hong Kong will be packing these! Dam 1.55um pixel on a 40MP sensor that stonking!

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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    Ha Cat - we'll never see eye to eye over sensors. 40 mp is overkill for a camera in a phone and it bins most of them to produce a 10 mp image in many cases. But hey - if that's what people want. I'd be more interested in the fact it has a notch but a big bottom bezel which seems pointless and the camera is said to be laggy and inconsistent. Both can probably be ironed out with software, we'll see
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    Re: Huawei unveils the P20 Pro with Leica optics and 40MP sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Ha Cat - we'll never see eye to eye over sensors. 40 mp is overkill for a camera in a phone and it bins most of them to produce a 10 mp image in many cases. But hey - if that's what people want. I'd be more interested in the fact it has a notch but a big bottom bezel which seems pointless and the camera is said to be laggy and inconsistent. Both can probably be ironed out with software, we'll see
    I updated my reply with pictures. Huawei uses a quad Bayer array,and the 40MP number is primarily used since it means a 2X2 bin gives you 10MP output. Look at how much better the DR is in low light. People need to stop giving incumbants the pass - if Huawei can show how to do a better job without half the marketing bumpf or R and D budget then Samsung and Apple can do a better job. At least Huawei is actually trying.

    Those tiny sensors are not really worth it on £600+ phones and there is now no argument to say a larger sensor cannot be integrated on a high end smartphone. I told you that was the case,and I was correct. Trying to defend tiny,cheap to make imaging modules in £600+ phones seems more like a defence of Apple/Samsung profit margins - don't think these companies care about loyalty. They only care about margins.

    I was also correct when I said years ago,the incumbants were not innovating enough and new competitors would come in and take more sales and people would keep phones longer. All of this is happening - even on forums you see people tending to keep their phones longer and longer which is backed by market research. Even the biggest fans of Samsung/Apple,etc should question their plodding updates at each generation.

    They are becoming way too complacent and comfortable - they need to stop with the accountant mandated releases and actually start pushing stuff. For £600+ they should as they have pushed the phone market higher and higher to the £1000 mark for high end phones.

    This is not even considering the revolution Huawei,Xiaomi and Oppo are doing at the more budget ends of the market worldwide. Huawei went from nowhere to the second largest smartphone in the world and caught both Apple and Samsung unprepared and that is with Huawei not even in the US. Now what happens when the other companies start entering more and more markets??

    All Samsung and Apple have done,is increase the price of their phones and charge more for every "innovation".
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 28-03-2018 at 10:31 PM.


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