Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 17 to 31 of 31

Thread: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

  1. #17
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    12,978
    Thanks
    778
    Thanked
    1,586 times in 1,341 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    Considering they use arm cores as the base of their cpu's they were hit with meltdown and spectre on their 'own brand cpu's' too
    ARM is just the ISA that Apple's home grown cores use, I haven't seen any mention of how susceptible their implementation is to Meltdown or Spectre. In the same way that AMD are not the same risk level as Intel chips, Apple's cores could be better or worse off than an off the shelf A73.

    As for the performance bit, I didn't think Apple kit has any sort of performance reputation really? Maybe that's just me, but I hear people complain about gaming ability for example. If they are aiming for thin & light laptops, their ARM chips are probably about good enough already compared to the low wattage Intel parts.

  2. Received thanks from:

    Pleiades (04-04-2018)

  3. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    375
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    13 times in 13 posts

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    They'll start with something like the macbook air, drop in their latest arm chip and brand the os ios pro, or something similar and brand it as the greatest/bravest thing to happen to the laptop ever. They will then slowly migrate the whole product line over.

    After all ios has a far larger user base and software library than osX will ever have and a laptop thats marginally faster than a tablet will work for most modern apple buyers as long as it looked right

  4. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    170
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked
    10 times in 8 posts
    • spolsh's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Crosshair VI
      • CPU:
      • R7 1700
      • Memory:
      • Team Froup DDR4

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    It's Bionic - it'll be the 6 million dollar mac.

  5. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,207
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked
    114 times in 102 posts

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlucine View Post
    Apple does not need to convince adobe to port their programs to ARM, because apple has already convinced them to do this for the ipad pro (and android mobile devices). All apple need to do now is a new API for keyboard support (leave in the touchscreen on the ipad-book, for easier compatibility) and to jenga the ARM hardware into a folding unibody chassis (a pretty easy task)
    iOS apps are nowhere near what you get on the desktop... Producing a limited functionality app specifically for the iPad is not the same as porting the bloated mess of code that is adobe creative suite.

    Not scalable? The ARM cores that are getting packed 48-to-a-chip?
    They're specifically designed for server use, completely different type of workload to a desktop or workstation. Note also I said at present, I know they can be bolted together like the centriq.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    ARM is just the ISA that Apple's home grown cores use, I haven't seen any mention of how susceptible their implementation is to Meltdown or Spectre. In the same way that AMD are not the same risk level as Intel chips, Apple's cores could be better or worse off than an off the shelf A73.
    It's not like apple is going to come out and say exactly how badly they've been hit by it but they did say even iOS based devices are affected and they needed patching.

  6. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wonderful Warwick!
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    183 times in 153 posts

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    I can't see it. More like use a custom AMD design licensed from them (which has an x86 license) and go from there. AMD's great strength is in the modular approach - so great that even Intel have bowed
    Use 4 x AMD cores and a Vega unit to produce something low power but good enough for a Macbook Air type device is what I'd expect with it being scaled to 8 cores and then 16 for a dustbin type device
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

  7. #22
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    12,978
    Thanks
    778
    Thanked
    1,586 times in 1,341 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    I can't see it. More like use a custom AMD design licensed from them (which has an x86 license) and go from there. AMD's great strength is in the modular approach - so great that even Intel have bowed
    Use 4 x AMD cores and a Vega unit to produce something low power but good enough for a Macbook Air type device is what I'd expect with it being scaled to 8 cores and then 16 for a dustbin type device
    I can't see that though

    That wouldn't make use of Apple's CPU design expertise and investment.
    The only thing going for using an AMD64 CPU is Intel's current performance in a mass market part, going AMD would lose that.
    It would be awkward to integrate Apple's new GPU design with an AMD CPU core.

    Parts like the A9X and A10X are pretty big lumps of silicon, it would need a deeper pipeline to get the boost clock speed up to make it really laptop capable.

  8. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,207
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked
    114 times in 102 posts

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    It would be awkward to integrate Apple's new GPU design with an AMD CPU core.
    AMD are/were arm licensed to use arm architecture, not sure if it's the full license where they can do their own arm designs or just to reuse the arm designed cores, and they released an arm based server opteron. Now I'm not saying that AMD and Apple would work together but there's no reason that AMD couldn't design an interconnect between their gpu and apple's core, they've already done it with Intel, albeit a bit more easily due to being x86/x64.

    Actually thinking about it, at a basic level they just need a 'pcie connection' to connect a gpu to any cpu that has driver support

  9. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wonderful Warwick!
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    183 times in 153 posts

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I can't see that though

    That wouldn't make use of Apple's CPU design expertise and investment.
    The only thing going for using an AMD64 CPU is Intel's current performance in a mass market part, going AMD would lose that.
    It would be awkward to integrate Apple's new GPU design with an AMD CPU core.

    Parts like the A9X and A10X are pretty big lumps of silicon, it would need a deeper pipeline to get the boost clock speed up to make it really laptop capable.
    Possibly - but then they will lose a rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishload of market share because it will be iOS on everything and I can't see many people using an iOS based laptop or pc. Unless they either run a translation level or get everyone to re-compile and rewrite the software which is also something I can't see happening. Perhaps they will just make an ARM version of osx. Whichever way it goes the current trajectory Apple are on of making life difficult for everybody will harm them
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

  10. #25
    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Gateshead
    Posts
    15,196
    Thanks
    1,231
    Thanked
    2,291 times in 1,874 posts
    • scaryjim's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Dell Inspiron
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 8250U
      • Memory:
      • 2x 4GB DDR4 2666
      • Storage:
      • 128GB M.2 SSD + 1TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon R5 230
      • PSU:
      • Battery/Dell brick
      • Case:
      • Dell Inspiron 5570
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • 15" 1080p laptop panel

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    AMD are/were arm licensed to use arm architecture, not sure if it's the full license where they can do their own arm designs or just to reuse the arm designed cores, and they released an arm based server opteron. Now I'm not saying that AMD and Apple would work together but there's no reason that AMD couldn't design an interconnect between their gpu and apple's core, they've already done it with Intel, albeit a bit more easily due to being x86/x64.

    Actually thinking about it, at a basic level they just need a 'pcie connection' to connect a gpu to any cpu that has driver support
    Not sure whether you're suggesting an AMD Arm CPU + Apple GPU, or Apple CPU core + AMD GPU here. And neither make sense from Apple's PoV, as they have both CPU and GPU designed in-house already. All they need to do is find a way to bump their CPU core performance sufficiently to meet the needs of the majority of OSX users. There's absolutely no reason they can't use dGPUs with an Arm CPU if they decide they need more graphical oomph ... as you say, they just need a PCIe cluster on the SoC.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Possibly - but then they will lose a rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishload of market share because it will be iOS on everything and I can't see many people using an iOS based laptop or pc. Unless they either run a translation level or get everyone to re-compile and rewrite the software which is also something I can't see happening. Perhaps they will just make an ARM version of osx. Whichever way it goes the current trajectory Apple are on of making life difficult for everybody will harm them
    People said pretty much exactly the same things when Apple moved from Power to x86 over a decade ago. They seemed to survive that transition somehow...

    I suspect we'll initially see OSX compiled for Arm, with a virtualisation layer to run native x86 apps, followed by a streamlining of iOS and OSX into a combined product (much like MS are doing with the Windows 10 line), and eventually a high-level runtime to do away with most native applications. Perhaps it'll even persuade Adobe to clean up the codebases for their creative products...

  11. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wonderful Warwick!
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    183 times in 153 posts

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    All good points... but the world has changed. For example the removal of USB on many Macs has stopped my musician friends from updating because most music hardware is still in usb2 status (because it just works and no need for more/better). Plus they tend to use older software etc. A quick chat about 2-3 months back was an almost unanimous vote of no upgrades here/might move to Windows because of it
    A move to change that would mean they would lose that market overnight unless they did something awesome to make older software run. I know Apple aren't worried about that - but they will be if that niche market dries up overnight
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

  12. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wonderful Warwick!
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    183 times in 153 posts

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    And re: Adobe - a graphic designer mate of mine is going to swap back from Mac to PC because for her spending a nominal amount results in better performance on CC these days
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

  13. #28
    Oh Crumbs.... Biscuit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    N. Yorkshire
    Posts
    11,193
    Thanks
    1,394
    Thanked
    1,091 times in 833 posts
    • Biscuit's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B450M Mortar
      • CPU:
      • AMD 2700X (Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3)
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Patriot Viper 2 @ 3466MHz
      • Storage:
      • 500GB WD Black
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 290X Vapor-X
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic Focus Gold 750W
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-V359
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity 80/20

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    ... CPU core performance sufficiently to meet the needs of the majority of OSX users.
    This is the key element. Most people buy macOS because its shiny and (apparently) "just works". Hell, some of the newer models that dont have cooling fans will barely even turbo before they start thermal throttling but 9/10 people wont notice this, as the brief turbo clocks will be enough to get them through the workloads they're likely to be doing.
    Apple doesn't, and hasn't cared about the power users for some time.

  14. #29
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    12,978
    Thanks
    778
    Thanked
    1,586 times in 1,341 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Possibly - but then they will lose a rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishload of market share because it will be iOS on everything and I can't see many people using an iOS based laptop or pc. Unless they either run a translation level or get everyone to re-compile and rewrite the software which is also something I can't see happening. Perhaps they will just make an ARM version of osx. Whichever way it goes the current trajectory Apple are on of making life difficult for everybody will harm them
    In the past they have convinced companies to ship "fat" binaries which contain compiled code for old and new architectures. So that is a technology that already exists and is tried and tested, but it would need a while to get companies to buy into the idea, compile up and start shipping software and upgrades in fat format. If they want to ship hardware in 2020 it would be best to give a couple of year's notice so telling people in early 2018 should do it

    Then there are the people running cloud based MS Office or Google docs. They won't care or notice.

    Edit: As well as the obvious transitions, Apple also went through the "32 bit clean" transition where dodgy 68000 code tricks no longer worked on 68020 and higher. That was a bit easier as code could be compiled that would run happily on both, but it was still an instruction set change and an upheaval where old code wouldn't just run on new hardware.
    Last edited by DanceswithUnix; 04-04-2018 at 11:39 AM.

  15. #30
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    17,168
    Thanks
    803
    Thanked
    2,152 times in 1,408 posts

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Then there are the people running cloud based MS Office or Google docs. They won't care or notice.
    God help them!
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

  16. Received thanks from:

    DanceswithUnix (04-04-2018)

  17. #31
    Anthropomorphic Personification shaithis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    The Last Aerie
    Posts
    10,857
    Thanks
    645
    Thanked
    872 times in 736 posts
    • shaithis's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z77 WS
      • CPU:
      • i7 3770k @ 4.5GHz
      • Memory:
      • 32GB HyperX 1866
      • Storage:
      • Lots!
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire Fury X
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX850
      • Case:
      • Corsair 600T (White)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2 x Dell 3007
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb Fibre

    Re: Apple Mac computers will use own brand CPUs from 2020

    I can see the end result of this being slower Macs and I bet the prices go up as well....
    Main PC: Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 3960X@4.5GHz / Antec H1200 Pro / 32GB DDR3-1866 Quad Channel / Sapphire Fury X / Areca 1680 / 850W EVGA SuperNOVA Gold 2 / Corsair 600T / 2x Dell 3007 / 4 x 250GB SSD + 2 x 80GB SSD / 4 x 1TB HDD (RAID 10) / Windows 10 Pro, Yosemite & Ubuntu
    HTPC: AsRock Z77 Pro 4 / 3770K@4.2GHz / 24GB / GTX 1080 / SST-LC20 / Antec TP-550 / Hisense 65k5510 4K TV / HTC Vive / 2 x 240GB SSD + 12TB HDD Space / Race Seat / Logitech G29 / Win 10 Pro
    HTPC2: Asus AM1I-A / 5150 / 4GB / Corsair Force 3 240GB / Silverstone SST-ML05B + ST30SF / Samsung UE60H6200 TV / Windows 10 Pro
    Spare/Loaner: Gigabyte EX58-UD5 / i950 / 12GB / HD7870 / Corsair 300R / Silverpower 700W modular
    NAS 1: HP N40L / 12GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Arrays || NAS 2: Dell PowerEdge T110 II / 24GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Hybrid arrays || Network:Buffalo WZR-1166DHP w/DD-WRT + HP ProCurve 1800-24G
    Laptop: Dell Precision 5510 Printer: HP CP1515n || Phone: Huawei P30 || Other: Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 Pro 10.1 CM14 / Playstation 4 + G29 + 2TB Hybrid drive

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •