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Thread: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    5 or 6 gears would just be an ISA extension. Bigger engine is an implementation detail. Cornering faster is a result of implementation. Architecture is the basics: wheels, 3 pedals in this order, steering wheel. People like to confuse the boundary though, in cars people often even now call the accelerator pedal a "throttle", despite no diesels and increasingly fewer petrol engines actually having a throttle valve (I gather BMW still have that valve, but generally the ECU doesn't use it and it certainly isn't connected to any pedal).
    Like most analogies it doesn't stand up to detailed dissection.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Microarchitecture is an X86 thing, because no-one else has an instruction set so messed up it needs translating into micro-ops to run on an internal RISC core. Graphics chips certainly can't afford that sort of overhead.
    It's really not, microarchitecture just describes the path data takes through the system, where things like when/where instruction fetch's happen, memory is accessed, different execution units sit, and where and when to do things like branch predictions, microarchitecture is common to all processors from x86 to DSP's as you need some way to design and describe the datapath that the particular ISA take through the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    Is it though? Denser that is. I did this calculation on another forum:
    TSMC's 16nm to 12nm doesn't seem to offer any major density increases. A quick comparison of GV100 and GP100 shows around 3% increase in density
    It sort of does but from what i can tell they use up the gains in density by changing the amount and or sizes of the sources, drains, and/or gates in a cell....found it <- that article talks about 7nm but i would imagine similar changes happened when they went from 12 to 14nm.
    Last edited by Corky34; 17-05-2018 at 06:13 PM.

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report


    16gb 3dfx magic

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    I'm confused by this article, are we talking about an Nvidia product or AMD product? /s

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    If this is true that's quite a large gap they've left between 70 and 80, almost guaranteeing an 1170ti will appear once Navi does.

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    Is it though? Denser that is. I did this calculation on another forum:
    TSMC's 16nm to 12nm doesn't seem to offer any major density increases. A quick comparison of GV100 and GP100 shows around 3% increase in density
    I'm sure I read in one of the recent Ryzen reviews that AMD used the 12nm process to drive performance instead of density, so I guess you have a choice. Maybe GV100 was originally designed for 16nm, then perhaps Nvidia went the same route.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    It's really not, microarchitecture just describes the path data takes through the system, where things like when/where instruction fetch's happen, memory is accessed, different execution units sit, and where and when to do things like branch predictions, microarchitecture is common to all processors from x86 to DSP's as you need some way to design and describe the datapath that the particular ISA take through the system.
    The traditional word for that in CPU design is "Implementation", possibly "Organisation", but they don't sound very sexy in marketing junk.

    Perhaps I'm just old. If I look in my second edition of Hennessy and Patterson (the book that current CPU designers would have learnt their craft from), the Index at the back doesn't contain the word microarchitecture and I don't remember reading it in there, so if all the implementations of the day could be described in detail without using the word it can't be that critical. I wonder if it is in the new edition, which I am tempted to get if only to read a good analysis of RISC-V. Mind you, H&P use "architecture" to cover organisation, some would be find that irritating

    Anyway, I'm not going to fight the whole Internet over their current insistence on using the phrase

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    the biggest seller is the low to mid range, what about a 1050 LEVEL price at the performance of a 1070? people I really don't care if AMD or Nvidia makes a card 30% faster than 1080ti coz the price of $800 is way high for 90% of PC users.

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I'm sure I read in one of the recent Ryzen reviews that AMD used the 12nm process to drive performance instead of density, so I guess you have a choice. Maybe GV100 was originally designed for 16nm, then perhaps Nvidia went the same route.
    I also seem to remember reading 12nm had a higher percentage of dark silicon than 14nm (it gives you more thermal headroom) so Nvidia have probably done the same, does the GV100 use more power or run cooler?

    If you're interested i geeked out a little on this teaser of a course by Princeton University on Architecture and Microarchitecture.

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    Bets on price anyone?

    I'm saying £700-800

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    At least that if not slightly more if it's faster. Until the lower models come through I can see some serious price gouging going on
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I'm sure I read in one of the recent Ryzen reviews that AMD used the 12nm process to drive performance instead of density, so I guess you have a choice. Maybe GV100 was originally designed for 16nm, then perhaps Nvidia went the same route.



    The traditional word for that in CPU design is "Implementation", possibly "Organisation", but they don't sound very sexy in marketing junk.

    Perhaps I'm just old. If I look in my second edition of Hennessy and Patterson (the book that current CPU designers would have learnt their craft from), the Index at the back doesn't contain the word microarchitecture and I don't remember reading it in there, so if all the implementations of the day could be described in detail without using the word it can't be that critical. I wonder if it is in the new edition, which I am tempted to get if only to read a good analysis of RISC-V. Mind you, H&P use "architecture" to cover organisation, some would be find that irritating

    Anyway, I'm not going to fight the whole Internet over their current insistence on using the phrase
    AMD said they used the 12+nm to help drive efficiency because they could choose either a performance or efficiency increase becasue of the process. They chose to be more efficient which also meant they could have more performance by boost clocks
    Or something along those lines...
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    Quote Originally Posted by jamz4 View Post
    If this is true that's quite a large gap they've left between 70 and 80, almost guaranteeing an 1170ti will appear once Navi does.
    The 25% drop in shaders exactly matches the 1080:1070 shader ratio. Nvidia thought this was a perfectly acceptable ratio last time, and only rushed out the 1070ti cludge because V56 was a hair better than expected

    Quote Originally Posted by lumireleon View Post
    the biggest seller is the low to mid range, what about a 1050 LEVEL price at the performance of a 1070? people I really don't care if AMD or Nvidia makes a card 30% faster than 1080ti coz the price of $800 is way high for 90% of PC users.
    Going by previous gens, you could expect 1060 performance for whatever 1150 pricing works out to be, once the rest of the range fills out. 1070-ish performance normally takes 2 gens to filter down to X50 level pricing

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    I also seem to remember reading 12nm had a higher percentage of dark silicon than 14nm (it gives you more thermal headroom) so Nvidia have probably done the same, does the GV100 use more power or run cooler?

    If you're interested i geeked out a little on this teaser of a course by Princeton University on Architecture and Microarchitecture.
    Dark silicon? I have read complaints that it is getting harder to route wires to bits of silicon. That does leave increasing amounts of silicon unused.

    I see from the front page of that course that they use microarchitecture==organisation. Meh, fair enough.

    TBH, if I were to do a course it would probably be to brush up my vhdl. I have to read snippets of it for work, but I haven't ever designed anything in a modern high level design language despite having access to all the tools. Would be nice to knock up my own home grown CPU. Just not enough hours in the day...

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Dark silicon? I have read complaints that it is getting harder to route wires to bits of silicon. That does leave increasing amounts of silicon unused.
    Sorry i should have explained better, it's exactly as you say, it's a catch all term for unused silicon, either intentional or unintentional left unused.

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    Quote Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
    Bets on price anyone?

    I'm saying £700-800
    If not higher on the top end card.

    Honestly I think July is more than a little hopeful. GDDR6 has only just gone into volume production from what I've read as the production takes quite a while to scale up. This not only makes it more expensive than current RAM (lol) but also means that the volume isn't there yet. I suspect we'll be looking at September to October.

    I also wouldn't be shocked if we see more memory variations this time around, maybe not on the top card but every other card I can see at least two versions in a similar GTX1060 3GB/6GB vane with minor performance differences but a decent saving on price.

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    GDDR6 is utter appaling latency and very low efficiency. Shame Nvidia is keeping their HBM for supercomputing only cards.
    The VEGA HBM2 memory kicks ass, excellent gaming and can mine its cost back, which is also why its been impossible to get a VEga for its RRP since September last year.

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    Re: Nvidia GTX 1180 Founders Edition to arrive in July, claims report

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBunip View Post
    GDDR6 is utter appaling latency and very low efficiency. Shame Nvidia is keeping their HBM for supercomputing only cards.
    The VEGA HBM2 memory kicks ass, excellent gaming and can mine its cost back, which is also why its been impossible to get a VEga for its RRP since September last year.
    Welcome to hexus. Hope you stay around to pick up informed and balanced opinion

    I think your statement might have been true when Vega56 first came out, but it's out of date now - mining has moved on.

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