World Health Organisation describes 'gaming disorder'

[ik9000]

They're really not - Gaming, movies, music, collecting/hoarding, internet, porn, reading, shopping, working!, cosmetic surgery, exercise, tanning, slimming... You name it, even if the mechanics are different, the mechanisms behind them are basically the same.
This is why so many addicts, when trying to conquer their addictions, so easily and readily just replace one addiction with another, usually less harmful, one.
These addiction mechanisms are also why there's a market for 'coping mechanisms', like clickers and fidget cubes. Vaping is another and the reasons why that has been so successful, although it also features chemical mechanisms in part. More on that later, if anyone is interested.

The only difference is in understanding the mechanics of the addiction and it rarely makes any difference between addictions. For example, one patient was addicted to smoking and would chuff like a chimney - Exploring the details of the mechanics revealed that it was the 'lighting up' to which he was addicted. He ended up quitting smoking entirely, but still went outside with the other smokers and as they all puffed away on their coffin nails, he instead just set fire to a few small strips of paper over the 10-minute break.

This was a patient of one of the psychologists who used to work next door to our department at Northwick Park. That same psychologist (our departments often did lunch together) explained all the workings of addiction to me, mainly by explaining how he himself gave up smoking because he didn't like how it controlled his life... but he still replaced smoking with a different addiction, and he is fully aware that he's still addicted to something.

Fascinating. (seriously- not mockingly) It's something I've had looser contact with, but I can see the mileage in it. Anyone who's had to try and help someone with an addiction knows it's not straightfoward, and that the action is rarely truly indicative of the underlying causes. Would be genuinely interested to learn more about the psychology of it. Every now and then I toy with signing up to do a course, but always fear it would just be too general and not really looking at the addiction side of things in any great depth.

[Ttaskmaster]

Would be genuinely interested to learn more about the psychology of it. Every now and then I toy with signing up to do a course, but always fear it would just be too general and not really looking at the addiction side of things in any great depth.

Most of the course would be studying methods of resolution or mitigation. It's often (though not solely) based in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, so you'd need an understanding of the disorder mechanisms and the mechanics that give rise to them... as well as getting a grip on the apparent differences between a mechanic and a mechanism... There's also a lot of interrelation with other aspects of psychology though, so you'd need to study those and factor them in.

You could start with some training as a simple therapist. Back when it was a new thing, I used to be acquainted with a chap who did online counselling and therapy, specialising in people who preferred the anonymity... kinda like Embarrassing Bodies but for mental health.

[philehidiot]

Most of the course would be studying methods of resolution or mitigation. It's often (though not solely) based in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, so you'd need an understanding of the disorder mechanisms and the mechanics that give rise to them... as well as getting a grip on the apparent differences between a mechanic and a mechanism... There's also a lot of interrelation with other aspects of psychology though, so you'd need to study those and factor them in.

You could start with some training as a simple therapist. Back when it was a new thing, I used to be acquainted with a chap who did online counselling and therapy, specialising in people who preferred the anonymity... kinda like Embarrassing Bodies but for mental health.

Ahhhh, CBT. They might as well call it "you're still gonna suffer like hell but at least this way it won't get in your way quite as much". So much fun.

For those looking for an understanding of addiction and so on, best bet is a basic psychology text book for a grounding on the different approaches to understanding the mind (neurophyiological, psychoanalytical, blah blah) and then frankly the best bet after that is to look for lectures online. Youtube. There's a clinical psychologist called Jordan Peterson who has managed to get himself pretty famous by putting his lectures online - there are hundred of hours of university lectures covering loads of topics.

The supplementing one addiction to another is something I've used with my patients. There was one guy, huge, covered in tattoos, scary and wearing a leather jacket rather than a hospital gown and he was being told he needed to cut down on the food for various reasons. He told me that he basically comfort eats in bed and it's a cycle he hasn't been able to break. Okay so don't break the damn cycle. Just change the food for stuff that's not gonna be bad for you and also is going to make you feel fuller faster - loads of options there. Same with me and drinking - replace the beer with drinking tea or something else so you're still doing the action but the damage is only that you're going to the bog every few seconds.

Where I live there's online councilling stuff. There's a central website / business which farms you out to smaller councillors. The GP gives you a prescription and you can either do self help online stuff, get an online assessment and advice or do telephone or face to face.

[Ttaskmaster]

Ahhhh, CBT. They might as well call it "you're still gonna suffer like hell but at least this way it won't get in your way quite as much". So much fun.

I quite enjoy a lot of CBT, mostly the parts about understanding what's going on in your head and why you do certain things that make no sense.
It's not so good at fixing problems, but as you say simply understanding what's going on can often go a long way to helping people cope with things!

There's a clinical psychologist called Jordan Peterson who has managed to get himself pretty famous by putting his lectures online - there are hundred of hours of university lectures covering loads of topics.

I find him very vague and non-commital in his lectures. He's great at stirring things up in interviews and debates, with much of what he says making sense... but his outright lectures seem to have very little relevance or relation to me, beyond trying to sell his book.

[johnroe]

philehidiot> I find this an interesting idea. 'This means that if you have a stimulus which results in this kind of release, you can develop an addiction without the physical dependence on a substance but you're still dependent on the stimulus'. It reminds me of ideas about rituals. How does this work in practice? I know that addicts can tend to switch from one form of it to another, so the form like 'gaming' may be irrelevant.

I have worked with mostly heroin and alcohol addicts(not a Therapist disclaimer), and I know a few. After hearing their personal stories, the reason for their wanting to numb themselves is clear, and I get the impression that many don't trust therapists, and don't really understand how some processing can help them(possibly all they want to do is forget, something that dominates their lives in an oblique way).

My interest recently has been in terms of what causes addiction generally, from it being learned behaviour, to just parents inability to regulate their own feelings being passed on to children(ie:they use certain drugs to regulate their emotions). How everything that happens to us when we are really young determines not only our memories but our abilities to interact with others and be sociable, but also that's when the chemical balance(hormones), responsiveness of neural transmitters and neural pathways are developed. I think these neural pathways can be rewritten but it's a difficult process.

According to an nhs website 1 in 3 people have addictions, from drugs and gambling to shopping. I imagine some family therapy and ideas like going out into the wild would suit gaming addiction. If not some sort of electrical stimulus within the brain, I'm sure I heard that's been tried.

[johnroe]

I'm already seeing several contrary views to those of the WHO. There are also some related issues, like France is banning phones in schools, and a call for that in UK. Primary Schools across Australia have been sending out warning letters about changes in behaviour because of Fortnite. Which is interesting that a game is changing behaviour.

There's an old adage, that if you want understand something you have to try it. I think many who judge gaming haven't played. And that's just what Dr Marcus Carter(Lecturer in Digital Culture and Gaming) suggest. Parents should play the game, play it with their children. It may be in the future that we are all addicted, in terms of today's criteria, but the criteria have shifted.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...en-say-experts https://www.newscientist.com/article...o-worry-about/

[ik9000]

so the BBC just posted this article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44560338

choice extracts:

The decision to class gaming addiction as a mental health disorder was "premature" and based on a "moral panic", experts have said.

biological psychology lecturer Dr Peter Etchells said the move risked "pathologising" a behaviour that was harmless for most people.


Dr Davie said: "We don't think that approach is evidence-based. What we're interested in really is the content and context of screen time."

Dr Davie added that for now his advice was for people to keep smartphones and other screens out of theirs and their children's bedrooms at night.

Dr Etchells added: "The best evidence that we currently have really suggests some screen time, some video game playing, is better than none at all, particularly for child wellbeing."

edit: - equally there are definitely cases where there is a problem: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12541769

[johnroe]

Yes it's definitely recognised as a problem in places like Japan and S. Korea as well. There was a case there of; a couple so engrossed in gaming they forgot about their baby(Trainspotting scenario).

It reminds me of how autistic people weren't appreciated until they realised that seeing systems and processes is useful in some applications. Same with obsessive gamers; the dedication, long term concentration, speed of play, problem solving(strategies). Maybe these players need challenges because of the speeds their minds work at.

This guy Cam Adair talks about his experience of addiction to gaming.>

[ik9000]

https://www.psychguides.com/guides/v...s-and-effects/

What Are the Signs of Video Game Addiction Problem?
As with any other addiction, video game addiction has warning signs. It is important to know how to recognize these signs if you or someone you care about is an avid gamer. According to the Illinois Institute for Addiction Recovery, these symptoms can be both emotional and physical.

Emotional Symptoms of Video Game Addiction
Some of the emotional signs or symptoms of video game addiction include:
Feelings of restlessness and/or irritability when unable to play
Preoccupation with thoughts of previous online activity or anticipation of the next online session
Lying to friends or family members regarding the amount of time spent playing
Isolation from others in order to spend more time gaming


Physical Symptoms of Video Game Addiction
Some of the physical signs or symptoms of video game addiction include:
Fatigue
Migraines due to intense concentration or eye strain
Carpal tunnel syndrome caused by the overuse of a controller or computer mouse
Poor personal hygiene

Short-Term and Long-Term Effects of Video Game Addiction
Like any other compulsive disorder, video game addiction can have severe negative consequences. Though most of the symptoms listed above have short-term effects, they can lead to more severe long-term repercussions if not addressed properly. For example, someone addicted to video games will often avoid sleeping or eating proper meals in order to continue gaming. While the short-term effects of this may include hunger and fatigue, it could eventually lead to a sleep disorder or diet-related health issues. Similarly, those who isolate themselves from others in order to play video games may miss out on family events, outings with friends, or other events in the short-term. If this continues to be a pattern for a long period of time, however, addicts might find themselves without any friends at all.

Other long-term effects of video game addiction to consider are the financial, academic and occupational consequences involved. Video games and video game equipment can be very expensive, especially when factoring in recurring costs such as the high-speed Internet connection required for online multiplayer games. These games can also be very time-consuming, leaving addicted gamers with less time to focus on their education or career.

Is There a Test or Self-Assessment I Can Do?
The most effective self-assessment that can be done is to examine the above list of symptoms associated with video game addiction. If you find that you or someone you care about exhibits any of these warnings signs, it may be a good time to cut back on the amount of time spent gaming.

now if i get half of those symptoms from work - am I getting addicted to work?? I hope not!

[Corky34]

Something i just wanted to add, the ICD is sort of intended for countries that rely on insurance companies to pay their medical bills so should probably be seen in that light, for an insurance company to reimburse someones medical bills there needs to be a condition, disease, or recognised illness written on the form, the ICD and DSM are basically check lists for insurance companies.

I would say they're both irrelevant to people living in the UK as you have the NHS but what with the direction of travel its been taking in recent years and peoples willingness to dismiss experts perhaps having internationally recognised standard diagnostic tools comes in handy.

[ik9000]

Something i just wanted to add, the ICD is sort of intended for countries that rely on insurance companies to pay their medical bills so should probably be seen in that light, for an insurance company to reimburse someones medical bills there needs to be a condition, disease, or recognised illness written on the form, the ICD and DSM are basically check lists for insurance companies.

I would say they're both irrelevant to people living in the UK as you have the NHS but what with the direction of travel its been taking in recent years and peoples willingness to dismiss experts perhaps having internationally recognised standard diagnostic tools comes in handy.

health insurance is a nasty business when it gets to US levels of silliness. But that is one for another thread, and I really don't have time right now.

[Ttaskmaster]

I think these neural pathways can be rewritten but it's a difficult process.

For some, but not for others. Many people with various conditions find and develop coping mechanisms, even if only through trial and error, with almost no external prompting. It only requires the desire to cope.

I imagine some family therapy and ideas like going out into the wild would suit gaming addiction.

Most gamers I know would have walked indignantly out of the therapy office at this point.
You might as well suggest they give up DMC3 and Battletoads, and go play something more challenging like Freecell....

Primary Schools across Australia have been sending out warning letters about changes in behaviour because of Fortnite. Which is interesting that a game is changing behaviour.

Yes indeed - "Behavioural changes"... It's Dungeons & Dragons all over again!

The decision to class gaming addiction as a mental health disorder was "premature" and based on a "moral panic", experts have said.
biological psychology lecturer Dr Peter Etchells said the move risked "pathologising" a behaviour that was harmless for most people.

Yup. 'zackly what I bin sayin'....

Not so long ago some German (?) chap drugged his horny girlfriend with Rohypnol, so she would pass out and he could get back to his computer gaming. THAT is a gaming problem.... and it's often joked that *I* was the chap!

It reminds me of how autistic people weren't appreciated until they realised that seeing systems and processes is useful in some applications.

Based on that statement, I'd say they remain unappreciated.
Not every autistic person is Rain Man...

the ICD and DSM are basically check lists for insurance companies.

Last time I read in depth it was still DSM IV, but they were always very insistent on highlighting that these checklists are just a collection of characteristics-in-common, which mean very little until their impact on basic quality of life qualifies the condition(s) under the overriding definition of an actual disorder.

This is primarily to stop people from just reading the definitions and self-diagnosing based solely on the 'checklist'.... and if you ever try it, you'd typically find you have an average of five totally separate (and often contradictory) psychological conditions.

I would say they're both irrelevant to people living in the UK as you have the NHS but what with the direction of travel its been taking in recent years and peoples willingness to dismiss experts perhaps having internationally recognised standard diagnostic tools comes in handy.

Oh please NO - I'd get banged up with fifty different mental issues, by some random joe on the internet armchair-diagnosing me remotely...!!

You might as well slap an OBDII dongle into your VAG car and assume its codes are every bit as correct as Ross-Tech.... Now, I'll happily do the work based on those findings and charge you accordingly, but you'll be signing this here waiver first!!

[ik9000]

Not so long ago some German (?) chap drugged his horny girlfriend with Rohypnol, so she would pass out and he could get back to his computer gaming. THAT is a gaming problem.... and it's often joked that *I* was the chap!

Wait, what? She wanted it and he would rather game? Yeah, been there in the past, but these days you take what you can get. What's more worrying is he had it available to begin with. WTF contingency was he planning for in buying it to begin with?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

https://www.psychguides.com/guides/v...s-and-effects/



now if i get half of those symptoms from work - am I getting addicted to work?? I hope not!

You are so,you need to something else to break the addiction.....like gaming!

[Ttaskmaster]

Wait, what? She wanted it and he would rather game?

Could she not at least wait for a cut-scene, or something, though?

What's more worrying is he had it available to begin with. WTF contingency was he planning for in buying it to begin with?

Well, you know what the Boy Scout motto is...

[johnroe]

It is amazing how the media focuses in on something, but I think this story is being used partially by those that don't understand gaming. So although the percentage of those getting addicted is low, it's being used as an indicator. I think it's also correct that official recognition is partially to help people to get their insurance companies to pay bill, and here to convince the NHS to pay.

I think to become addicted a player has got social issues, but to get that involved and compete, shows that they do have to develop certain skills (listed in post 24)(I'm sure the military could use those sorts of skills, or NASA). In the same way that heroin addicts develop certain skills to maintain what has come to define their lives.

Of course with all these type of addictions; social media, internet, porn, gaming,gambling, it's important for the addict to be able to not go online to learn how to control it. I wonder how many non addicts could go cold turkey over internet usage.