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Thread: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

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    Admin Saracen's Avatar
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by darcotech View Post
    Prices are not going down.
    They are going back to the level they were supposed to be before the greed hit them all.

    it is awful feeling to know how we depend on the greed of somebody else to have the things in our life.
    It's not greed. It's markets, basic business and common sense.

    Or are you suggesting that if, for example, you are selling a rare car and have several interested active buyers, you're going to sell for the lowest price that breaks even? Of course not. You'll sell for the best price you think you can get.

    Economics 101 - if demand is high and supply limited or fixed, price goes up. (*note)

    Business 101 - company bosses arrn't there to sell limited stock in a limited production capability at minimum price. They owe a statutiry duty to operate in the best interests of the company investors/ owners. They aren't social enterprises for gamers.

    And bear in mind, without those investors putting miney in, up front, and taking a risk, these cards wouldn't get developed in the first place. And don't imagine the risks aren't real. I remember talking to one oc ths founders of a very well known hard drive msnufacturer some years ago, who pointed out, "get the capacity point for next release drives wrong once, you make no money that year. Do it twice on the trot and you're bankrupt".

    As for prices dropping 10%, well, we'll see. If that tempts enough consumers to buy, it'll probably stick. But if enough think they're still overpriced and hold off, prices will drop further.

    The laws of supply and demand cut both ways - demand>supply => prices up, but equally, supply>demand => prices falling. Card companies coined it on the way up but IF consumers hold tight, it'll bite 'em in the ass on the way down. And that is also basic economics and market forces. Factor in a large number of angry consumers feeling ripped off and prices could fall quite a bit .... which companies ought to have taken into account in the "best interests of investors" stage.




    *Note - There are other issues, like price-elasticity of demand, and granularity of market structure, but that's more like Economics 201 than 101.
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by philehidiot View Post
    I would have thought R&D costs, etc should have been paid by this point in the product lifecycle. Bear in mind we're expecting a new card shortly.
    R&D costs of the next cards have to be paid for out of current cards, or you are working on a basis of debt which means paying interest which means you need an higher margin.
    To be fair it doesn't say that it is was margin on the BOM/production, it could be net margin in which case all expenditure has been accounted for. That's not that far fetched given the prices the cards have been going for. Personally I just caved and got a 8gb 580 nitro+ as its going for less than 4gb 580s and I could see no sign of new cards for a while, my trooper of a 380x did need retiring. Farcry 5 ultra settings at 2k with no less than 50fps, that will do me even if I did pay a little more than I should have.

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    But most companies still work on a basis of debt...but let's not get into that argument lol
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by EN1R0PY View Post
    To be fair it doesn't say that it is was margin on the BOM/production, it could be net margin in which case all expenditure has been accounted for. That's not that far fetched given the prices the cards have been going for. Personally I just caved and got a 8gb 580 nitro+ as its going for less than 4gb 580s and I could see no sign of new cards for a while, my trooper of a 380x did need retiring. Farcry 5 ultra settings at 2k with no less than 50fps, that will do me even if I did pay a little more than I should have.
    Yes it could be, I just read it as margin on the product.

    Good luck with the graphics card, mine just turned up. It won't fit in my Antec 300 case. "My my" I said, "How unfortunate, I may have to use that lovely hacksaw, what splendid use of my time" or words to that effect

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    But most companies still work on a basis of debt...but let's not get into that argument lol
    Yeah, accountants throw all sorts under the bus in the name of cash flow.

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    The rare car analogy doesn't equate here. Were talking about a mass produced consumer product that benefits from economies of scale and refinements in process node fabrication and the resultant yield improvement efficiencies.

    We're also talking about a mature product that's over 2 years old. Unusually mature thanks to events that have seen a stagnation.

    No, it is quite certainly a result of greed. The idea now that even priced above a 2 year old MSRP that were being given "savings" is a farce. If you argue the market then you're an apologist for corporate greed.

    They do not have to be making R&D back for the next card with the current product because in technology it is an ongoing cost. The next product has been artificially delayed. All signs point to it being ready. It was ready a year ago but they're not going to taint high demand for the old thing by introducing a new, better one that's not needed.

    You can't possibly expect people to believe that Nvidia et al envisioned the Pascal line to have such legs. They've made their money back many times over with the volumes they've sold through. You can't blame them for being opportunistic and clever but you can't say it's not greedy. And now these piffling "not savings" are spitting in the face of gaming consumers who've been sidelined for bigger whales this whole time.

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by darcotech View Post

    it is awful feeling to know how we depend on the greed of somebody else to have the things in our life.
    You mean capitalism and commercialism?

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    ASs an aside to this story, I took a look at GTX 1070 prices on Amazon this morning. As well as the cost of new cards dropping, there were a LOT of used cards listed at £300 each. Likely, I suspect, to be hard-worked ex mining cards.

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by darcotech View Post
    Prices are not going down.
    They are going back to the level they were supposed to be before the greed hit them all.
    Exactly, just like battlefield 5 point of advertising where no lootboxes, premium pass etc.. those things werent supposed to exist in the 1st place.

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by Rejuvination View Post
    those things werent supposed to exist in the 1st place.
    Says who?
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Says who?
    All the rational people, parents and government bodies that have labelled them as predatory and as gambling?

    All gamers with a moral compass that see those things for what they are, which is a quick cash grab.

    The very same publishers and devs that are now listing the absence of these things being a positive feature ergo insinuating that they are a bad thing. I'd imagine there's a lot of people out there that think they should never have been a thing in the first place.

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Well,TBF various regulators are looking at loot boxes as unregulated gambling.


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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphadeus View Post
    The rare car analogy doesn't equate here. Were talking about a mass produced consumer product that benefits from economies of scale and refinements in process node fabrication and the resultant yield improvement efficiencies.

    We're also talking about a mature product that's over 2 years old. Unusually mature thanks to events that have seen a stagnation.

    No, it is quite certainly a result of greed. The idea now that even priced above a 2 year old MSRP that were being given "savings" is a farce. If you argue the market then you're an apologist for corporate greed.

    They do not have to be making R&D back for the next card with the current product because in technology it is an ongoing cost. The next product has been artificially delayed. All signs point to it being ready. It was ready a year ago but they're not going to taint high demand for the old thing by introducing a new, better one that's not needed.

    You can't possibly expect people to believe that Nvidia et al envisioned the Pascal line to have such legs. They've made their money back many times over with the volumes they've sold through. You can't blame them for being opportunistic and clever but you can't say it's not greedy. And now these piffling "not savings" are spitting in the face of gaming consumers who've been sidelined for bigger whales this whole time.
    A rare car just simplifies the analogy, but doesn't affect the principle, which is that, while digital currency farms were buying like crazy, demand > supply => price rising.

    Again, businesses are not social enterprises whose driving force is not meeting consumer demand, but making returns for investors.

    So, forgeet rare cars, and take ANY decent, working condition car. You have one to sell, market value is, say, about £5000. Now, along comes Mr Consumer and offers you £4900, and beside him, Mr. Currency Farmer offers £5500. Is it "greed" to take the higher offer? No. It's common sense.

    It's also common business practice. Why do Rolex charge more for a watch than Rotary? Because they can. For what? Clever marketing, brand recognition and because they can limit supply.

    Why do Ford charge £25k for a car (for example), and Aston Martin £175k? Because they can. Aston could automate, hugely ramp up prroduction and please vastly more consumers, but instead, they keep ptoduct quality high, hand-made exclysivexand expensive, and market what their customer base want, which is a premium product,

    Some companies target pike-it-highm srll it cheap, while others target a more exclusive price-point. None do it to be charities, but to maks profit. For instance, some people buy £250 jeans because because they've a poncy label others buy the leadin brand at, what, £50-£100 because of label, and others buy a dozen pairs at a time, for £5 a piece, in Asda. That would be me. But all three companies are selling jeans .... at a price that suits buyer and seller.

    Rolex could sell shedloads more watches by massively cutting prices, but it's dubious if they'd make more profit, and if they drop the high end appeal, high-end buyers would drop them like a hot coal.

    Graphics card sellers have product to sell and, until recently, buyers willing to pay. Ir's not greed, and more than you taking the higher offer for your used Mondeo is. It just signifies that someone wanted the product more, or could afford more, than the losing buyer. If you wanted a card badly enough, you'd pay the higher price.

    Personally, I really want a new Aston Martin. Just not enough to pay £170k.
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphadeus View Post
    If you argue the market then you're an apologist for corporate greed.

    ....
    Don't personalise it. We have rules here about personal insults, and you're right on the edge.

    Argue the case, don't taunt with personal remarks .... especially when it's an admin.
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Saracen - hate to tell you but Aston no longer hand build the majority of the cars. They have had to reign in costs as they were losing money until a few years ago. I love Astons but the DB7 having the same door handles as my Puma kinda ruined it for me. And when a mate was the accountant for the company who makes them told me how much they cost I was livid
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    And when a mate was the accountant for the company who makes them told me how much they cost I was livid
    hehe, I have seen OE part invoices from manufacturers. The markup really is something to behold, at least in auto industry

    anyway on topic - 10% drop is a joke right? Black friday aint far anymore, i can see it dropping a good bit more

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Saracen - hate to tell you but Aston no longer hand build the majority of the cars. They have had to reign in costs as they were losing money until a few years ago. I love Astons but the DB7 having the same door handles as my Puma kinda ruined it for me. And when a mate was the accountant for the company who makes them told me how much they cost I was livid
    Hmmm. Can of worms opened.

    Am I aware? Well, I was in my local AM dealer discussing it about 3 weeks ago, so .... yeah.

    Handmade in the sense of the old 70s Newport Pagnell plant? No. Handmade in the sense of the new, hitech-process Gaydon plant, yeah they still are. The DB7 and the Bloxham operation were a different kettle of fish, and while I drove a DB7 in, oh, 1995-ish, and decided sgainst, it was still a nice car. Just not £80k nice when an M3 cost me less than half that.

    But, I gotta tell you, either a DB11 or Vantage are VERY different from the DB7 in both feel and performance, even if you forego the V12 and 'slum it' by putting up with the meagre 500+ BHP of the AMG V8.

    But look, when you order there are are huge range of options abd even one-off customisations you can have, and AM will tell you that no two cars cone off the line identically configured.

    Does the absence of entirely hand-tooled body panels bother me? Not when you're getting ultra-precision hi-tech manufacturing processes, bonding and so forth, but still can vary everything down to the hand-stitched seats.

    Yes, there's a degree of automation in the plant, especially to keep keep time costs and unskilled manual labour to a minimum, but AM is still a very different "assembly line' to a mass car plant. I toured Toyota's plant in Kentucky a while back, and while it was the epitomy of Japanese efficiency, it bears about the same relationship to AM Gaydon as a local GP clinic does to a world-class heart surgery operating theatre.
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