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Thread: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

  1. #49
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Peterb - whilst your sentiment is correct it rarely works like that in practice. A 2 year old product, when in this day and age products *usually* have a yearly refresh would never be seen as being of a good value. Apple and most tech companies have admitted that they have to do yearly refreshes else sales drop considerably. So your argument doesn't really stack up at all. Also NV have tons of cards because they overstocked, they have admitted to 300,000 cards being returned and I hazard that is the low end of the figure ie. a creative low figure. As they also have had the highest margins for some time that is what annoys people. I'm sure they won't be burned as up at the high end AMD have no real direct competitor due to them banking on HBM2 and the problems and costs that entails. However...if the 10% cut doesn't stimulate the market, and it gets to 20% or even more - then the pressure on the price of the next generation increases so that the next product has to be both a lot faster (which is difficult to achieve these days) or a lot cheaper (which is not what NV want to do).

    You say that if a phone does the same job when it's 2 years old.... can't remember that happening in a long time because phones are also driven by design not just tech. You've admitted you have no interest in high end graphics or even a £50 graphics card. Sir that's bottom end with these current high prices...I feel you're a tad out of touch
    The price is fair, today, if enough people are buying, today, regardless of a card bring two years old. When deciding whether to buy or not, people make up their mind based on what they get, versus what it costs. It's fallacious to assume a great leap every year or two, just because it's happened before. At some point, all such technologies either plateau, having reached maturity, or are replaced by a new twchnology .... until they reach a sfable maturity. And in the meantime, as maturity approaches, each successive marginal upward step gets harder and marginal benefits smaller.

    If you aren't prepared to buy at, say, £300, all it means is you don't value the benefit that highly.
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Personally i think that china is after stealing ram tech and just using the "investigation" into price fixing as an excuse. They have absolutly zero intention of playing fair. They already have tried to steal other tech and want to shortcut and gain an advantage.

    As for current ram prices. Demand went throu the roof cos mobile phones sucked up extra ram and then Samsung had a fire which has cut the supply for the next 6months at least.

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by mercyground View Post
    Personally i think that china is after stealing ram tech and just using the "investigation" into price fixing as an excuse. They have absolutly zero intention of playing fair. They already have tried to steal other tech and want to shortcut and gain an advantage.

    As for current ram prices. Demand went throu the roof cos mobile phones sucked up extra ram and then Samsung had a fire which has cut the supply for the next 6months at least.
    Its not an excuse since its happened before and regulators in the US/Europe fined them. They formed a cartel and fixed prices:

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0..._fixing_again/


    Updated The three semiconductor giants responsible for nearly all of the world's DRAM supply are being sued for allegedly working together to keep memory chip prices high.

    A class-action complaint [PDF] filed to the US Northern California District Court late last week accuses Micron, Samsung, and Hynix of conspiring to keep the price of memory chips artificially high to pad their own bottom lines.

    None of the three companies returned a request for comment on the suit.

    The complaint, put forward by named plaintiffs Michele Jones, David Laietta, Kimberly York, Benjamin Murray, and Wanta Dureya on behalf of anyone in the US who purchased something containing DRAM from one of the three companies from July 1, 2016 through the February 1, 2018. It accuses the three companies of violating unfair competition and antitrust laws by illegally colluding to keep prices up.

    The suit claims that, after a global decline in the price of RAM chips, the three companies began in June of 2016 to deliberately limit their output of DRAM storage chips. As a result the three companies, who are said to control around 96 per cent of the global market, each made more money at the expense of anyone who bought a computer, mobile phone, or other device that relied on the chips to hold data.
    channel
    FTC slams Rambus' memory 'monopoly'
    READ MORE

    "During the Class Period, Defendants agreed to delay or slow capacity, or not to expand capacity," the suit claimed. "This facilitated Defendants’ ability to stop DRAM prices from falling and cause prices to dramatically reverse course."

    What's more, the suit claims, you can actually track the bumps in DRAM prices to the aftermath of industry events where the three companies would have had a chance to sit down and plan together how they could get top dollar.

    "In addition to the transparency and ease of information sharing that comes from being in such as small industry where many of Defendants’ employees likely know each other, Defendants also have overlapping business relationships with each other, which provide opportunities to exchange information and collude," the suit alleges.

    The plaintiffs also note that this is not the first time these companies have been accused of price fixing.

    Back in the turn of the milennium, from 1998-2002, Hynix, Samsung, and Micron were among a group of vendors who would ultimately end up paying a settlement to end complaints they conspired to rig the price of DRAM chips in order to make top dollar. ®
    Updated to add

    "Micron is aware of a lawsuit filed on April 27 in the Northern District of California alleging that Samsung, Hynix and Micron engaged in certain anticompetitive behavior relating to the sale of DRAM. As of today the company has not been served and does not comment on active litigation," the chip biz told The Reg in an emailed statement.
    They are also being sued in the US. Oh,wait its not only the Chinese who are doing it.

    They only have themselves to blame.

    China imports most of the world's DRAM,ie,nearly $90 billion of it and those "poor" DRAM companies are making increasing profits.

    China has a vested interest since its own OEMs,either have to absorb the costs or pass it onto customers,which is bad for them especially if they have signed fixed price contracts for a number of years.

    Enthuasists on forums should not ignore this:

    https://i.imgur.com/VZDedAL.png



    Now when you import nearly $90 billion of DRAM,why wouldn't a country be pissed off if prices are doubling or tripling.

    Remember,those floods which caused HDD prices to spike. Well HDD prices remained high for many years after that,even after everything was fixed.

    Also the whole China is stealing stuff is getting old,especially when Chinese companies are spending loads on their own R and D.

    15% of the income of Chinese companies like Huawei depends on patents:

    https://www.chinatechnews.com/2016/0...huaweis-income

    They are even top of the list of patents filed in the EU:

    https://datacentrenews.eu/story/huaw...opean-patents/

    Remember,decades ago the same things were said about Japan - they only copy stuff.

    Plus if you want to blame anyone for copying,blame all the companies pushing all the production to China. The fact its probably very easy for them to examine how things work.

    They prioritised cheap manufacturing over giving jobs to locals in our part of the world and caring about the environmental impact in Asia or Africa where all the waste is dumped,or the mass pollution from all the ships moving things.

    Then OFC US,UK,Russia,etc took a lot of German research after WW2 due to victors spoils,and then used it to push forward our own R and D massively:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Alsos

    Germany hardly benefited from that did they!?
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 04-07-2018 at 07:55 PM.


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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post

    You say that if a phone does the same job when it's 2 years old.... can't remember that happening in a long time because phones are also driven by design not just tech. You've admitted you have no interest in high end graphics or even a £50 graphics card. Sir that's bottom end with these current high prices...I feel you're a tad out of touch
    Not quite what I said - I said that even if a £300 card was sold at £50 I wouldn't buy it - because I have no need - so it wouldn't necessarily be a fair price for me. But I wasn't clear in my response to your phone analogy - I was assuming that their wasn't an update available, but if there was, I would then need to consider if the new features were worth the premium, or whether the older version met my needs at the same or lower price. There has been a tendency for prices of the older models to say the same, while the newer product "justifies" a price rise. (justifies according ti the mfr/distributor/retailer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post

    If you aren't prepared to buy at, say, £300, all it means is you don't value the benefit that highly.
    Which is the point I was trying to make - but far more succinctly!
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Its quite easy - have a price your willing to pay for something,and if its too high don't buy it,but also make it clear why you are not buying it(companies need feedback after all). If a hobby seems too expensive,then be quite happy to just not bother. You have to vote with your wallet really,as that is the only way companies really start to notice.

    However,sadly many "enthusiasts" will pay the price even if the item is overpriced since they "had no choice",so companies will keep the price high. You need to stick to your guns,otherwise companies will look at you as a grumpy consumer who still rewards them for price increases. My attitude is if you are willing to pay the price,best not to say the price is high.

    Oh,another thing I couldn't give a rats arse if a Biblical flood or firestorm hit their factories,etc so they can double or triple prices. Sympathy only lasts for so long,and I suspect most people will put up with a certain level of price increases,but there is a limit.

    However,unless your pay goes up a similar rate,that is their problem not mine or anybody elses. Are you suddenly going to be paid twice or three times more since your house is flooded or burnt down....I don't think so.

    If you have some vested financial interest in the company its one thing,otherwise meh. I am not going to get poorer so the CEO can get another Bugatti and then give themselves a huge yearly pay increase,whilst probably not doing it for the "plebs" they employ.

    Companies serve their own interests sure,but I am a consumer and companies are meant to serve MY interests with the products they sell,just like a government should our interests in their decisions. In the end you are both paying them your money(via purchashing their products or via taxes) and by extension your time in one way or another.

    So think about it,every time you have had to do overtime wishing you could have had a day off,or wish you could take an unpaid day off to be with your kids but can't. That few £100 or few £1000 a company has added to your hobby is literally that time.

    Edit!!

    Another thing,I wouldn't even mind the increases that much if they were employing loads of people in the UK,and paying loads of tax into the system. At least there would be a social aspect to it for the betterment of the country.

    Last time I checked we don't make much if any DRAM in the UK,and the price increases in fact hurt our own businesses MORE. So,they can additionally go and clear off TBH.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 04-07-2018 at 08:55 PM.


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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Not quite what I said - I said that even if a £300 card was sold at £50 I wouldn't buy it - because I have no need - so it wouldn't necessarily be a fair price for me. But I wasn't clear on the phone
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    "on the phone" = "in my response to your phone analogy"

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    That's because you're attached to your phone. All makes sense now, no need for a gfx card as your phone is all you need....
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    That's because you're attached to your phone. All makes sense now, no need for a gfx card as your phone is all you need....
    Not quite - I was responding to your tech analagy of a two year old phone. I do use a desktop PC and a laptop, but the graphics cards they came with is more than enough for my needs. The last two PCs I built used motherboards with embedded graphics ‘cards’ which again were more than adequate for the intended purposes. I hope that has cleared up any confusion.
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Oh no confusion - just a jolly jest with an admin post
    Can't agree with people just for the sake of it because then we can't have these debates. I want to go to the pub with cat-the-5th and Saracen to argue over pointless things
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Oh no confusion - just a jolly jest with an admin post
    Can't agree with people just for the sake of it because then we can't have these debates. I want to go to the pub with cat-the-5th and Saracen to argue over pointless things
    Now THAT could be fun. Not nearly as much fun as it would be if I weren't teetotal, though. Well, more or less teetotal. Also, haven't been in a pub in .... ummm .... 20 years-ish.
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Well I'm game... cat what you doing?
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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Well I'm game... cat what you doing?
    Could do at some point.


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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Now THAT could be fun. Not nearly as much fun as it would be if I weren't teetotal, though. Well, more or less teetotal. Also, haven't been in a pub in .... ummm .... 20 years-ish.
    Are you dispophobic? Pubs are much nicer post smoking ban. (The ones that have made an effort anyway). Can't beat a good pub lunch on a sunny Sunday walk IMO.

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Performance gain between one generation and next isn't that much is it? I mean there are people happy with their Nvidia 980ti cards. Is it purely from a driver support angle that older card will not get updates going forward.

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    Re: Gigabyte warns investors of graphics card price drops

    Quote Originally Posted by pp05 View Post
    Performance gain between one generation and next isn't that much is it? I mean there are people happy with their Nvidia 980ti cards. Is it purely from a driver support angle that older card will not get updates going forward.
    At some point there will be a jump to 7nm cards which should be worth an upgrade but that is probably a year or two away still.

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