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Thread: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

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    Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Machine Learning in an Insider update aims to avoid times when you are busy.
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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Couldn't they just provide an option for everyone to not automatically restart at all, with any nagging? I'm getting really tired of coming in to work to find my PC has either obliterated my workspace (and thus, workflow) by an automatic reboot, or is still installing updates, after an automatic reboot.

    How do Microsoft not understand that rebooting AT ALL can be incredibly disruptive? Just give us a damn choice.

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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Quote Originally Posted by afiretruck View Post
    Couldn't they just provide an option for everyone to not automatically restart at all, with any nagging? I'm getting really tired of coming in to work to find my PC has either obliterated my workspace (and thus, workflow) by an automatic reboot, or is still installing updates, after an automatic reboot.

    How do Microsoft not understand that rebooting AT ALL can be incredibly disruptive? Just give us a damn choice.
    But then people never reboot and get infected! There is no good option here and I think Microsoft are preferring to annoy you rather than deal with a potential US style lawsuit if you did get infected... (Not saying its right but you can understand the corporate decision making process)

    As for the AI - I assume its just a simple 'if user has done nothing for 5 minutes reboot'!
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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Quote Originally Posted by afiretruck View Post
    Just give us a damn choice.
    You are forgetting this is Microsoft Windows 10 ME and choices are not for mere users, but for the forthcoming paid up elite club.

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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Quote Originally Posted by cheesemp View Post
    But then people never reboot and get infected! There is no good option here and I think Microsoft are preferring to annoy you rather than deal with a potential US style lawsuit if you did get infected... (Not saying its right but you can understand the corporate decision making process)
    They could have a big disclaimer saying something along the lines of "you take all responsibility if anything bad happens to your PC as a result of pushing this big red button".

    Speaking of US-style lawsuits, has anyone attempted to sue Microsoft for lost productivity from unscheduled restarts?

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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Quote Originally Posted by afiretruck View Post
    They could have a big disclaimer saying something along the lines of "you take all responsibility if anything bad happens to your PC as a result of pushing this big red button".

    Speaking of US-style lawsuits, has anyone attempted to sue Microsoft for lost productivity from unscheduled restarts?
    Where do I start? I choose when I want to shut down and apply the updates but then.... then.... next time I turn it on it says how it's still applying them and I have to wait! NO! I TOLD YOU WHEN YOU COULD DO IT. WHY DID YOU NOT RESTART AND FINISH THE JOB THEN?

    We don't need "machine learning" for this because we'll end up with all of our mothers ringing us complaining that their computers are restarting at random whenever they leave them for more than 5 minutes. We need a pop up box saying there are updates ready for installation, that they're seriously important for security, not that important for security or purely feature updates which can wait. You then choose what you want to happen - install now, install later (click the icon on the task bar) or leave your computer on and it'll wake up at 0100 and do it all automatically. There is no excuse for not finishing the job when I tell it to, either. No more of this "Getting Windows ready" nonsense when I'm booting up to "quickly" check the route to somewhere before I set off, etc. If I told it to update last night when there was time, I expect it to finish it, not do half of it and then wait until it's least convenient to do the rest.

    I do not want AI choosing when to restart my PC or really when to be downloading, etc. I want control over my bandwidth, control over my CPU time (I might want to be calculating Pi to millions of places for no reason and don't want Windows using my CPU in the background for updates that can wait) and I want control over when it installs them. I do not want seemingly random restarts when the PC thinks it's convenient. I will TELL YOU when it's convenient.

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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Maybe instead of AI MS should concentrate on what they broke with Windows 10 1803,ie,sound for a lot of people. Now my onboard sound has a habit of switching off during games,and also it seems to not be able to detect my rear audio ports,and then randomly switches between the front and the back ones.

    Tried installing new drivers and issues keep popping up on and off.

    Think the AI is trolling me for the LOLs!!


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Quote Originally Posted by philehidiot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by afiretruck View Post
    They could have a big disclaimer saying something along the lines of "you take all responsibility if anything bad happens to your PC as a result of pushing this big red button".

    Speaking of US-style lawsuits, has anyone attempted to sue Microsoft for lost productivity from unscheduled restarts?
    Where do I start? I choose when I want to shut down and apply the updates but then.... then.... next time I turn it on it says how it's still applying them and I have to wait! NO! I TOLD YOU WHEN YOU COULD DO IT. WHY DID YOU NOT RESTART AND FINISH THE JOB THEN?

    We don't need "machine learning" for this because we'll end up with all of our mothers ringing us complaining that their computers are restarting at random whenever they leave them for more than 5 minutes. We need a pop up box saying there are updates ready for installation, that they're seriously important for security, not that important for security or purely feature updates which can wait. You then choose what you want to happen - install now, install later (click the icon on the task bar) or leave your computer on and it'll wake up at 0100 and do it all automatically. There is no excuse for not finishing the job when I tell it to, either. No more of this "Getting Windows ready" nonsense when I'm booting up to "quickly" check the route to somewhere before I set off, etc. If I told it to update last night when there was time, I expect it to finish it, not do half of it and then wait until it's least convenient to do the rest.

    I do not want AI choosing when to restart my PC or really when to be downloading, etc. I want control over my bandwidth, control over my CPU time (I might want to be calculating Pi to millions of places for no reason and don't want Windows using my CPU in the background for updates that can wait) and I want control over when it installs them. I do not want seemingly random restarts when the PC thinks it's convenient. I will TELL YOU when it's convenient.

    Have you ever tried paying for the features that you want? W10 Enterprise

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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Pity windows can't install updates without needing to re-boot.
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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Pity windows can't install updates without needing to re-boot.
    Its pity windows can't also install updates without needing a boot to its posterior so they actually work!!


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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Pity windows can't install updates without needing to re-boot.
    Yeah that was my thought too. Linux has been able to do this from day 1, save for the kernel and very minimal init process, and even that has been a solved problem for quite a few years now. I think Microsoft would be doing themselves a huge favour if they restructured the OS so updates can occur in-place.
    Last edited by aidanjt; 27-07-2018 at 04:45 PM.
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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    Yeah that was my thought too. Linux has been able to do this from day 1, save for the kernel and very minimal init process, and even that has a solved problem for quite a few years now. I think Microsoft would be doing themselves a huge favour if they restructured the OS so updates can occur in-place.
    That would be a mammoth task. Windows has a weird way of handling program and DLL files when they're in use. They just can't be replaced, so the system needs rebooting so they can be put in place before they're opened for execution.

    The memory model appears to be a throw-back to when RAM was scarce and it's built around being able to easily chuck stuff out of memory, back to disk, if needed.

    At least that's how it appears after writing some programs using memory-mapped files a few years ago.

    EDIT: Not to mention that restructuring the OS to not behave like this would be admitting that "Unix had it right". (Is it Unix, or specifically Linux?)

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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    How about updates that dont require a reboot?
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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Quote Originally Posted by afiretruck View Post
    Not to mention that restructuring the OS to not behave like this would be admitting that "Unix had it right". (Is it Unix, or specifically Linux?)
    I think generally *nix. Macs rarely need rebooting after updates and they are BSD Unix based. The only thing that does require a Mac reboot are iTunes updates!
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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    I don't mind the odd reboot, I know it's a necessity when installing updates or some software.

    I don't like leaving a complex compute or render job running overnight, only to find my PC has decided to update and reboot at 4am because I "wasn't using it".

    Windows should tell me there's an update in a little notification. I choose if and when to install it, and accept that I might be "at risk" until I do. An option to "automatically update when I shut down my computer" would be nice too, if I'm shutting down and not rebooting then it can do it's thing while I go to bed/work/out.



    But, nope.

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    Re: Windows 10 AI will mean updates are less annoying

    Quote Originally Posted by afiretruck View Post
    That would be a mammoth task. Windows has a weird way of handling program and DLL files when they're in use. They just can't be replaced, so the system needs rebooting so they can be put in place before they're opened for execution.

    The memory model appears to be a throw-back to when RAM was scarce and it's built around being able to easily chuck stuff out of memory, back to disk, if needed.
    I'm not sure it would be such a mammoth task, it's a kernel thing and it shouldn't require a vast amount of code changes, assuming it's any way half sanely engineered. Frankly, the various driver models that Microsoft has introduced over the years should have been vastly more complex than this, especially WDDM.

    Quote Originally Posted by afiretruck View Post
    EDIT: Not to mention that restructuring the OS to not behave like this would be admitting that "Unix had it right". (Is it Unix, or specifically Linux?)
    Yeah UNIX has been pretty much doing it that way since the early 70's, they solved the limited resource problem (when they *really* had limited resources) by writing tiny simple programmes that were purpose specific, so keeping it in memory while executing wasn't overly burdensome, and of course swap files/partitions made the whole thing moot.

    Just to give an example of how insane Windows Updates is, literally yesterday, I had a family member bring around a very old laptop that had Windows 10 on it. It took 6 hours to install the redstone 4 update. 6 hours. It would have taken less time to backup everything from it, wipe every partition from the HDD, install Windows 10 RS4 from scratch, and restore the backed up data. That's insane. It makes no sense whatsoever for that to be possible.
    Last edited by aidanjt; 27-07-2018 at 02:44 PM.
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