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Thread: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

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    AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Hopefully mass production volumes from Samsung and Micron can keep prices steady.
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    Comrade Moose CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Hopefully mass production volumes from Samsung and Micron can keep prices steady.
    I think you have more chance of seeing a pink elephant.

    BTW, what's the bet DDR4 prices won't drop as much since now they can say GDDR6 needs to be made. This is going to be like what happened to HDD pricing after the floods.


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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Same old story all the time, relying on the main players to help the consumers. It's never going to happen when they can carry on making high profits. We need to expect that memory prices are now higher forever, they may go up and down slightly but the threshold low price has now been risen with no going back. Every time the prices look set to fall, they will "innovate" to ensure that those who want the latest and greatest will always pay the extra premiums.

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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Any excuse. If anything, economies of scale should help to bring pricing down - in the past GDDR was almost exclusively used for GPUs which themselves were almost exclusively used for gaming. All in all a relatively small market for a niche memory standard. Now it's used in everything from GPUs to games consoles to networking hardware.

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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    I think you have more chance of seeing a pink elephant.
    Give me a PCR machine, 30 years and some DNA from some extremely funky sea creatures and I'll sort that for you.

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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Oh and frankly, sod AI driven cars. As far as I'm concerned at the moment all cars seem to do is swerve randomly around the road anyway so I'm pretty sure I could sort this with some BASIC code starting with "randomise timer". No need for AI, it's all just chaos which will lead to my inevitable death anyway so why bother soaking up all the RAM for that?

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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Do you not run the latest memory then philehidiot?
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    This is going to be like what happened to HDD pricing after the floods.
    I don't expect it to be *that* bad. Although the HDD market was buoyant (see what I did there? ) before an after the floods, that was at the same time that the likes of Samsund sold off their hard drive business because the writing was quite clearly on the wall which makes investment in the business tricky.

    There is a lot of bluster about mram and crosspoint, but so far nothing looks like it has any chance at all of replacing DRAM, so investment can happen. It just doesn't happen fast enough to keep the likes of us happy.

    Edit: Besides, keeping the price "steady" isn't the same as keeping it low

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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I don't expect it to be *that* bad. Although the HDD market was buoyant (see what I did there? ) before an after the floods, that was at the same time that the likes of Samsund sold off their hard drive business because the writing was quite clearly on the wall which makes investment in the business tricky.

    There is a lot of bluster about mram and crosspoint, but so far nothing looks like it has any chance at all of replacing DRAM, so investment can happen. It just doesn't happen fast enough to keep the likes of us happy.

    Edit: Besides, keeping the price "steady" isn't the same as keeping it low
    I personally think they will try some bullcrap to try and do it - the DRAM companies and probably the resellers too are taking the piss. Its bad enough potato level DDR4 is costing more than similar speed DDR3,even 3000MHZ DDR4 which has been around for ages,is considered more expensive premium stuff and both Intel and AMD show advantages with that kind of RAM,and you will see it more and more as they stick with dual channel RAM for increasing core counts.

    Probably something will happen like a meteor hitting one of the fabs or a Moose falling into a clean room.

    I don't even give two hoots about stuff over 3000MHZ. It might as well not exist for me or 99% of people I know since its rarely costs low enough to be bothered with.

    I honestly regret not getting a Haswell based Xeon E3,a £45 Z97 mini-ITX motherboard and some 2133MHZ DDR3 when it was cheap. Could have done it for under £300. Now I would be lucky to get change out of £450,and more like £500.

    Mini-ITX motherboards are now stupidly priced,even on AM4. Many have gone up 50% since the Haswell days or more. RAM has gone up. Graphics will go up as AMD RTG is a waste of time and can't learn from their HBM mistakes. Plus the RAM cartel will make graphics RAM go up in price so AMD and Nvidia will charge even more. The only thing is the CPUs are cheaper,but I could have gotten a 4C/8T Haswell Xeon E3 for under £180.

    A couple of friends looked at upgrading,saw the stupid RAM costs and gave up. One is probably going to get a laptop,and no wonder,considering how much less he will get upgrading his desktop PC.

    At this point its these RAM companies which have prevented me from upgrading,and irrespective of how bottlenecked,my next build with 7NM Ryzen or 10NM SKL MK5,will be with the cheap 2400MHZ set I have got.

    Probably be Intel I suspect as AMD is far more bottlenecked by RAM than Intel is. Than you very much RAM companies.

    I am not going to spend over £100 for 16GB of 3000MHZ if I decide to buy some RAM,even if the pound goes south next year. Its been around long enough to be pretty cheap to make now.

    I also expect it not to dual ranked high cas latency crap either:

    https://www.overclockers.co.uk/teamg...my-09w-tg.html

    Look at the latencies C19 at only 2666MHZ. C16 is fine,but C19,they can keep it.

    If they use the excuse of GDDR6,weak pound,WTO rules,hard Brexit,trade war or other bullcrap,expect a review of a Ryzen 5 MK3 or SKL MK5 Core i5 next year with mildly overclocked potato level 2400MHZ DDR4,with at most a £100~£110 motherboard with sub £30 cooling. If it means I need to end up with an H series board,and I have to fashion my own VRM heatsinks,then be it.

    Sure it won't look as impressive as all the totally pointless mainstream reviews with £300 RAM,£100 cooler,£200 motherboards,but at least it will be realworld.

    I am getting fedup of how the DIY PC building community seems to be more of a cash cow for these companies.

    Every little excuse to push prices up,yet the rest of the non-DIY market somehow never sees 2 to 3 times increases in prices.

    The worst thing is that Dell around Prime Day were selling a 6C/12T laptop,with 16GB of 2666MHZ DDR4,256GB SSD,HDD,GTX1060 6GB,etc for around £1000. Try building a SFF system with similar specs and a screen and see how it would have cost including Windows.

    I don't see bloody consoles going up stupid amounts even with 12GB of GDDR5.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 02-08-2018 at 08:16 PM.


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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Would be nice to GDDR6 (but more likely GDDR5) become the norm for desktop memory, and not just graphics cards.
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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Midas View Post
    Would be nice to GDDR6 (but more likely GDDR5) become the norm for desktop memory, and not just graphics cards.
    I thought desktop was trending towards more efficient components. It's unlikely you'd stick less efficient RAM in there when performance wouldn't really increase.

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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Midas View Post
    Would be nice to GDDR6 (but more likely GDDR5) become the norm for desktop memory, and not just graphics cards.
    Using GDDR in place of normal desktop memory (DDR) would see pretty big performance deceases, GDDR sacrifices latency for bandwidth and DDR reverses that (linky)

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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    I did not know that GDDR was less efficient. I thought it was faster and better in every regard.
    Thanks guys

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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    A moose falling into a clean room?

    Please stop giving them ideas.

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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    Quote Originally Posted by philehidiot View Post
    A moose falling into a clean room?

    Please stop giving them ideas.
    Blend it with the meteor idea, a moose falling from the space...


    Odd to see networking mentioning GDDR use. AIUI high end switch gear uses FPGAs to parallel process lots of packet headers, they have lots of memory channels and are latency sensitive which would seem like a DDR4 use case to me.

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    Re: AI and ML applications to eat into GDDR6 supply, says report

    I think when they're referring to networking they may be talking about high capacity switches where higher bandwidth/throughput is more desirable.

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