Apple announces the iPhone XS, XS Max, and colourful XR phones

[peterb]

Why the heck should I have to spend £100s more on a phone just because someone buys a £1000+ one. I don't care if you buy one as long as you don't interfere with my end of the market,thank you very much.

You don't

http://www.argos.co.uk/product/7497850

£70 - sim free

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

You don't http://www.argos.co.uk/product/7497850

£70 - sim free

That is the point you don't get,that chap was saying that the pricing tiers for such a phone needs to be more. So a current £200 midrange phone needed to be pushed upto £400 and so on.

So again why should midrange which is between £200 to £450ish,now need to start at £400 or even £600??

That by extension would mean low end phones would be pushed up by double to triple.

Not anyone in this thread has explained why that is required apart from:

I don't want to just slam you down, but in that lies the problem. Phone prices increase so much each year that a once accepted pricing structure no longer applies. The brackets change each year.

So explain to me that then??

Why do existing pricing structures need to change just because you have a £1000+ phone?

WHY??

Edit!!

Its no point - there will be no solid answer to that or any questioning of that quoted statement in anyway. You have more chance of getting a solid answer out of Jeremy Corbyn!

[Iota]

Why do existing pricing structures need to change just because you have a £1000+ phone?

WHY??

Inflation? Exchange rates? Supply and demand? Marketing fluff? Any of those reasons could apply to altering the pricing structure and the established norms of what consumers are required to pay for a product.

However in your defence, I understand the point you are trying in vain to make in regards to the more accurate pricing tiers being an established norm, and not some fictional pulled out of thin air figures. In that aspect you are correct and I agree that the pricing tiers and what actually defines a mid-range priced phone is already established (regardless of the actual specifications of the phones in that tier).

It isn't worth beating a dead horse over it though.

Funny how my 2013 Android can still do so much more than any iPhone, including what was only just announced yesterday, can do. Micro-SD card, replaceable battery, FM Radio, FM Radio recording, 3.5mm jack (which can work as the trigger my selfie stick, or external LED light trigger, or external condenser audio recording mic),

Funny how my 2014 Android LG G3 has 3GB RAM and higher resolution QHD screen than the "$750 for a sub 1080p display,3GB of RAM and a single camera. Bargain!".

Funny how I can still flash the latest Android ROMs on both phones because I have rooted them. Funny how they still work as good as new once I slap in a new battery.

Funny how your CrApple would be barely working by now with that degraded sealed internal battery. Funny how you actually think that your 2013 crapple can run iOS 12 - without at least being severely crippled feature wise, like all old iPhones which would work like a tortoise if not hang

Yes, it's funny how this works isn't it?

I've owned a Sony Xperia smartphone, with hardly any software side support and resorted to having to work out how to upgrade to newer more secure versions of Android, due to the sheer fragmentation of the whole ecosystem. Equally, I've also had to replace the battery of that Android phone within the space of two years, due to it not lasting very well.

On the flipside, my supposedly CRapple iPhone 5S battery is still going strong considering its age and the number of charging cycles it's been subjected to. The software side of things is still great as it's supported still by Apple after all of these years and through multiple revisions of iOS, iOS 12 looks like it'll improve performance even on my rather old phone. Oh, and it's still secure as it's not some third party making the new iOS.

I'm not saying Android is bad here. When Google finally take control of what is essentially an open source operating system, which they're slowly doing, and finally make the base OS update-able regardless of hardware revision, as well as ensure the manufacturers get on-board with that (or get removed from the ecosystem), then perhaps they'll be good enough to consider. Until then I'll never touch another Android phone, because Apple do it better.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Inflation? Exchange rates? Supply and demand? Marketing fluff? Any of those reasons could apply to altering the pricing structure and the established norms of what consumers are required to pay for a product.

However in your defence, I understand the point you are trying in vain to make in regards to the more accurate pricing tiers being an established norm, and not some fictional pulled out of thin air figures. In that aspect you are correct and I agree that the pricing tiers and what actually defines a mid-range priced phone is already established (regardless of the actual specifications of the phones in that tier).

It isn't worth beating a dead horse over it though.

!! Someone who finally gets it!! Thank you!!

Yes, it's funny how this works isn't it?

I've owned a Sony Xperia smartphone, with hardly any software side support and resorted to having to work out how to upgrade to newer more secure versions of Android, due to the sheer fragmentation of the whole ecosystem. Equally, I've also had to replace the battery of that Android phone within the space of two years, due to it not lasting very well.

On the flipside, my supposedly CRapple iPhone 5S battery is still going strong considering its age and the number of charging cycles it's been subjected to. The software side of things is still great as it's supported still by Apple after all of these years and through multiple revisions of iOS, iOS 12 looks like it'll improve performance even on my rather old phone. Oh, and it's still secure as it's not some third party making the new iOS.

I'm not saying Android is bad here. When Google finally take control of what is essentially an open source operating system, which they're slowly doing, and finally make the base OS update-able regardless of hardware revision, as well as ensure the manufacturers get on-board with that (or get removed from the ecosystem), then perhaps they'll be good enough to consider. Until then I'll never touch another Android phone, because Apple do it better.

Definitely,the fragmentation on Android is an issue especially with lying companies like Motorola,but again something like my Huawei from 2016 has had all the relevant security updates already even if its a slightly older version of Android(7 something) and its over two years old,and hopefully another year at least. Its been utterly hammered due to extensive GPS usage with certain games.

The Android One handsets seem to be getting frequent updates and Xiaomi makes some in the low/midrange tiers. The Mi A1 is not bad at all for a lower end phone(even has a 50mm tele camera).

But that is the issue,a cheap Apple phone is now going to be £450 to £500,and not a bad spec but not state of the art - so even though I have thought maybe I could have gotten one and used it for 4 maybe 5 years,I could probably get an Android phone use it for 2 to 2.5 years,and then get another one and probably still spend less.

Its like one of my mates on a 5S,he pretty has decided not to bother upgrading since he considers the new iPhones as being too overpriced,so will use it until it probably goes kaput.

I honestly think Apple should have kept a £300 tier phone going - even if it was all plastic or something. Make the SOC on 14NM/16NM,etc.

Some people just prefer iOS due to its UI and don't really care if it is the latest tech.

[Iota]

I honestly think Apple should have kept a £300 tier phone going - even if it was all plastic or something. Make the SOC on 14NM/16NM,etc.

Some people just prefer iOS due to its UI and don't really care if it is the latest tech.

http://www.argos.co.uk/browse/techno...pt/sort:price/

You can still get a sim free SE / 6 / 6S for a reasonable price, although not brand spanky newest tech, still solid and still supported by Apple. I can see going forward that lower resolution phones will end up being end of life (like the 5S / SE).

However, a lower price tier phone should have been kept going. I would have loved to have seen the 5S / SE casing reused with new hardware inside for a reasonable price. They've missed a trick for those of us who simply don't want a massive screen and require something a little more solid (and I can live without wireless charging, so less glass...).

Still that said.. I am seriously considering buying the Xs as I can pick one up sim free for a shade more than the X (£899). I'll still be using the 5S though, as it would make for a great Roku remote with the headphone jack....

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

http://www.argos.co.uk/browse/techno...pt/sort:price/

You can still get a sim free SE / 6 / 6S for a reasonable price, although not brand spanky newest tech, still solid and still supported by Apple. I can see going forward that lower resolution phones will end up being end of life (like the 5S / SE).

However, a lower price tier phone should have been kept going. I would have loved to have seen the 5S / SE casing reused with new hardware inside for a reasonable price. They've missed a trick for those of us who simply don't want a massive screen and require something a little more solid (and I can live without wireless charging, so less glass...).

Still that said.. I am seriously considering buying the Xs as I can pick one up sim free for a shade more than the X (£899). I'll still be using the 5S though, as it would make for a great Roku remote with the headphone jack....

The thing is for a lower end SKU there is plenty of choice of screens,cameras,etc they could have used, to cut down costs,and having the SOC not on a leading node would make it much cheaper too especially since the Apple ARM cores are still some of the best ones around. The thing is although Tim Cook is a good moneyman,I just feel at times they have started to miss a few tricks(or even take a few more risks) when compared to when Steve Jobs was around. Apple for a longtime did have entry level stuff - one of the reasons why the iPod was so popular was partly down to this,or even Mac laptops.

I can understand why they and even Samsung to a degree are doing this as apparently people are keeping smartphones for nearly three years now,but I just feel they are underestimating the longterm threat of certain competitors. The more expensive phones get the greater the chance people might decide to keep it that bit longer,so its end up being a vicious circle IMHO.

[preter_s]

Funny how my 2013 Android can still do so much more than any iPhone, including what was only just announced yesterday, can do. Micro-SD card, replaceable battery, FM Radio, FM Radio recording, 3.5mm jack (which can work as the trigger my selfie stick, or external LED light trigger, or external condenser audio recording mic),

Funny how my 2014 Android LG G3 has 3GB RAM and higher resolution QHD screen than the "$750 for a sub 1080p display,3GB of RAM and a single camera. Bargain!".

Funny how I can still flash the latest Android ROMs on both phones because I have rooted them. Funny how they still work as good as new once I slap in a new battery.

Funny how your CrApple would be barely working by now with that degraded sealed internal battery. Funny how you actually think that your 2013 crapple can run iOS 12 - without at least being severely crippled feature wise, like all old iPhones which would work like a tortoise if not hang

LG L3 replacement battery £29.95

https://www.4lg.co.uk/search.pl?query=BL-53YH

Apple iphone7 replacement battery £25

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/ipho.../battery-power

Just saying...

Never needed to root a phone because it does exactly what I want out of the box - rooting compromises security and some security critical apps won't then run - but your choice of course - whatever floats your boat.

What? Your CrApple internal battery costs more than twice as much?
IFixit - LG G3 Replacement Battery Item code: IF303-025-1 US$14.99
https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Parts/LG-G3-Replacement-Battery/IF303-025-1

Just saying... I change my battery in 5 seconds. Any time I want. Any time I notice a deterioration in run time. Way before it fails. By clicking a few mouse buttons and waiting for it to appear in my mailbox. Without having to go to a service centre.

On the other hand... You need to put your life on whole, whether the battery fails without warning or not, to travel to a service center, then hand your phone with all its sensitive personal data to some stranger... and for a few hours or even days by post not being able to lead your live or go about your work, whereby said service centre stranger copies all your naked photos from your phone to upload for the world to see... ...

Get it yet? Just saying .. maybe you lot might learn to get it some day. Just being optimistic.

Just saying ... if you do not know what rooting is, its because you have no clue what it is. Its also because you don't know what the open source community is about. You don't even know what your phone is doing because you have no control over what apps are installed by the manufacturer and the carrier.

Without root, you cannot uninstall all their adware/bloatware/crapware. You probably don't even know that iTunes is bloatware/adware. You also cannot control how the apps work. Or how they send data about you to the cyberworld using your money through your mobile data plan. Which explains why you always gets whacked with data overage surcharge bills.

Once rooted, with open source root apps like open source Linux IP table firewalls, I can restrict ANY APP to using either WiFi ONLY or mobile data ONLY or both or none. I can make sure a calculator app NEVER gets to access the internet. AT ALL. So the developer cannot ever upload my personal data. I bet you don't even know that the moment you install an app from your app store, the developer immediately uploads your personal contacts data etc. to the dev's own servers.

I NEVER exceed my basic 3GB data plan, even though I am always online and a heavy power user. Even though my Android's monthly data usage is 50 to 70 GB. That's because all the heaviest bandwidth using apps like news websites, Youtube/Google Drive/Google Photos (yes, even Google's own apps) can be uninstalled or restricted to only use Wifi!

You don't even know what security means. The manufacturers and carriers propagate the narrative that rooting compromises security because they don't want you to uninstall their apps or restrict their ability to spy on you by uploading data anytime they want. Because they know consumers like you are stupid.

How do you even have security when you can't control what your phone and your apps are doing? The open source community has already thought about it, done something about it and the rest of us are already using the tools to improve our security (and phone bills). Just saying...

... you have lots to learn if you think your phone "does exactly" what you want out of the box. And to think that those are only the elementary things rooting allows... just saying.

[Iota]

What?
[snip for brevity]

I see a lot of unfounded points being made here, with a lot of assumptions added for good measure. We get it, you don't like Apple iPhones. That's really all you needed to say.

[peterb]

What? Your CrApple internal battery costs more than twice as much?

snip --->.

You are an angry chappie aren't you?

Of course you can get some dodgy third party battery - I was comparing manufacturer's genuine parts.

It's no accident that some apps like banking will not work on a rooted phone because of the security issues.

I'm quite enthusiastic about open source software, but the fact that something is open source does not mean it is secure. Take shellshock for example - a vulnerability that existed for 30 years before it was discovered.

But you have a lot to learn about constructive and civilised discussion on a forum - but hey ho - rant on...

Just saying

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

BTW battery replacement costs are going to go up from £25 to between £45 to £65 next year so it might be an idea to get the battery replaced this year.

[peterb]

BTW battery replacement costs are going to go up from £25 to between £45 to £65 next year so it might be an idea to get the battery replaced this year.

Already planned. . (Not that it needs it really as it is only two years old, but might as well before it goes up)

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Already planned. . (Not that it needs it really as it is only two years old, but might as well before it goes up)

Always prudent - it should help extend the life of the phone.

[Myss_tree]

On the other hand... You need to put your life on whole, whether the battery fails without warning or not, to travel to a service center, then hand your phone with all its sensitive personal data to some stranger... and for a few hours or even days by post not being able to lead your live or go about your work, whereby said service centre stranger copies all your naked photos from your phone to upload for the world to see... ...

Are there really people who's life would be on hold and not be able to work or live their life without a phone?

[peterb]

Are there really people who's life would be on hold and not be able to work or live their life without a phone?

So it seems

I'd just use the handover onto my iPad.... . (if it was really that essential).

But I try not to be a slave to my tech - it's there to serve me, not the other way round.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Are there really people who's life would be on hold and not be able to work or live their life without a phone?

I suppose if your phone is your primary computing device and you have no laptop,desktop or tablet and social media is very important to you??

[Saracen]

At the risk of winding Cat up some more .... it's always possible to introduce an extra price band, especially where branding/fashion/designer-status are involved.

But I agree with the GT40 argument, to a point at least.

Suppose I have my eye on a £15,000 Patek Phillippe watch, and they bring out a new version with a different colour winding knob, at £18,000. Will it sell? Probably, because some people just have to have the latest, and have enough money that they really, absolutely do not care about cost.

But, would that new P--P watch have any impact on £2000 Rolex, Ket alone a £200 Seiko or a £20 Timex? I can't see how, personally.

Designer or "iconic" products set, IMHO, their own orice points based on what the market will bear, not what other companies do.

And on the subject of money, about 20 years ago, I had a discussion with a salesman in Maranelli's about a new Ferrari, the 355 Spyder. I asked how long the wait was and was told, about 2 years BUT .... they have a nice metallic blue (which was the colour I fancied) coming in next week. Barely used, under 1500 miles, a year old.

Why? I asked. Is the ash tray full?

Because it's Aug 1st, and one of our in 4 days and one of our regulars trades in the 'old' model very year, because he won't drive one on last year's plate.

It would have saved me about £15k over a new one, and more important, saved me a 2 year wait, but I was surprised the price difference wasn't more than that. Why would it be, he said, 'cos even at that price, it'll sell within the week.

When you get to expensive, iconic and luxury items, normal rules don't apply. It's certainly not about the rest of the market, but is often about how many of an "exclusive" product can be made, and even about limiting production precisely to keep exvlusivity ... and pricing accordingly.