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Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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PT’s tests were behind Intel's “world’s best gaming processor” claims at the launch.
Read more.
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
Really interesting view, people should also watch this from Jim @ AdoredTV which gives a bit of a history lesson in how Intel has distorted benchmarks in the past through Sysmark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V8pEsjNa4Q
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
So, let me get this straight. When AMD launched their CPU's, intel fanboys called upon using 4k as benchmark as useless because...reasons.
Now when Intel does their benchmarks in 1080p, AMD fanboys calls them useless because...reasons
oh, internet
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
Putting the deeply flawed testing of the 2700x aside for a moment does anyone think it's rather strange that in most of their test the 9980XE and 9900X suck so badly at gaming? I mean the article shows a screen shot of Assassins Creed with a 5-8% benchmark deficit and 10% lower FPS but if you look at some of the other results in the PDF the 9980XE and 9900X are like 40-50% slower.
I know they're higher core CPUs but if you compare PT results of 9980XE and 9900X to TR the Intel high core count (8+) CPUs really suck.
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Originally Posted by
aniilv
So, let me get this straight. When AMD launched their CPU's, intel fanboys called upon using 4k as benchmark as useless because...reasons.
Now when Intel does their benchmarks in 1080p, AMD fanboys calls them useless because...reasons
oh, internet
It goes far deeper than simply different resolutions, PT set 'game mode' for the 2700x and so disabled half the cores, they used a top end heatsink for Intel and TR but used the out of the box one for the 2700x, they used 64GB of RAM in four banks, and that's just some of the problems people have with the way PT tested.
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Cooler choice: We chose Noctua for the CPU coolers, due to having almost identical systems in the NH-U14S (Intel) and NH-U14S TR4-SP3 (AMD), which allowed us to maintain a comparable thermal profile. Because we were not performing any overclocking on any configuration, and because AMD has said it was a good cooler, we stuck with the stock AMD Ryzen 7 2700X Wraith Prism cooler.
How on Earth can they call this good testing methodology? They're changing more than one variable at a time! That's basic, primary school science!
I know it's tricky to get the coolers exactly the same, especially with Threadripper involved, but that shouldn't have stopped them trying to get them as similar as possible.
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
cptwhite_uk
Really interesting view, people should also watch this from Jim @ AdoredTV which gives a bit of a history lesson in how Intel has distorted benchmarks in the past through Sysmark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V8pEsjNa4Q
OT: Sorry but that guy has an accent that is very hard for me to follow what he is saying...
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
GinoLatino
OT: Sorry but that guy has an accent that is very hard for me to follow what he is saying...
Would playing it at a slower speed help?
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
His accent is perfectly understandable.....unless you never met a Scotsman in real life!! :p
There are far more stronger Scottish accents!!
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
afiretruck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GinoLatino
OT: Sorry but that guy has an accent that is very hard for me to follow what he is saying...
Would playing it at a slower speed help?
I just tried, doesn't help much. English is not my native language, but I perfectly understand many other youtubers. This is just a strain.
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
I think the cooling solution is an easy one to do. Whilst if you're going for a real scientific approach you should eliminate it as a factor and go for nitrogen or something daft, we're not really going down that route here. The approach should be to replicate what consumers can reasonably achieve in the reduction of bottlenecks and also, it's important to remember that when you're testing a processor, the heat production is a characteristic which will affect performance and should therefore be see as a tested variable and not a confounding one to be minimised. I would simply therefore go for a model of AIO liquid cooler which has similar specifications (in terms of heat capacity and fan airflow, blah blah) which has adaptors for both CPUs under test. This is a reasonably high end solution which will reduce bottlenecking due to heat in most circumstances to what a consumer can reasonably achieve.
"Because AMD say it's a good cooler" means nothing in quantitative testing. You want numbers to make objective comparisons. Ford say their Fiesta is a good car but that's because they spent ages lying and covering up the occasional external combustion of the internal combustion engine within. If you're going to take a manufacturer's word on things like this then there is logically no point in benchmarking anything ever becuase we can just trust the manufacturer.
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
I still haven't found out who "Soldier Tim" is...
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
I wonder why people spend upwards of $500 on a cpu just to game. Gaming slows down economies coz that time wasted could be spent learning Angular or for MORE important things.
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
rookie mistake with game mode on the AMD. And they should have known that ppl would pick appart the data.
Marketing gone wrong. :popcorn:
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
lumireleon
... Angular or for MORE important things.
Wait. There's more important things than Angular???
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
Anyone remember CTS flaws? I think even the most skeptical should have realised that AMD is being deliberately screwed from every angle because intel have nothing new or secure to offer.
"If you have admin access to an AMD system you could pose a security risk"
"If you turn off half of Ryzen's cores it's only 50% as fast"
"intel have a 28 core part that can do 5ghz on all cores"
"meltdown is an industry wide problem"
All of these statements were officially backed up by or given by intel, or more likely commissioned by them, looking at you CTS! All of these statements are misleading at best or outright lies at worst.
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
afiretruck
Wait. There's more important things than Angular???
Almost literally *anything* is more important than Angular. Except R. R can sit down and shut up. :geek:
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Use of "Game Mode" on the AMD Ryzen 7 2700X: Some inquiries we have received concern the use of the Ryzen utility and the number of active cores in the AMD-based systems. Based on AMD's recommendations and our initial testing on the Threadripper processors, we found installing the AMD Ryzen Master utility and enabling the Game Mode increased most results. For consistency purposes, we did that for all AMD systems across Threadripper and Ryzen. We are now doing additional testing with the AMD systems in Creator Mode. We will update the report with the new results.
So for consistency purposes, they also turned off HT on Intel cpus, because halving the amount of threads available would be "consistent", correct?
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Cooler choice: We chose Noctua for the CPU coolers, due to having almost identical systems in the NH-U14S (Intel) and NH-U14S TR4-SP3 (AMD), which allowed us to maintain a comparable thermal profile. Because we were not performing any overclocking on any configuration, and because AMD has said it was a good cooler, we stuck with the stock AMD Ryzen 7 2700X Wraith Prism cooler.
So Intel is implying their stock cooler isn't a good cooler by way of omission then? Consistency would mean running a Noctua cooler on all systems, or if thermal limitations can come into play, then they should all be using the stock shipped coolers. That way if it's going to throttle, that'll become apparent.
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Memory speeds: To have complete parity across all systems, and to allow the Intel Core i9 X-series and AMD Ryzen Threadripper to fully utilize memory bandwidth, we used four 16 GB DDR4 DIMMs on all configurations.
Consistency would be using the same memory that the CPU is validated for. Using the same ICs etc.
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
Iota
So Intel is implying their stock cooler isn't a good cooler by way of omission then? Consistency would mean running a Noctua cooler on all systems, or if thermal limitations can come into play, then they should all be using the stock shipped coolers. That way if it's going to throttle, that'll become apparent.
I think if you mandated shipped coolers the i9 would throttle very very quickly... it doesn't come with a cooler :p
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
So one of their goals was to test CPU performance so they tested at 1080p because Steam shows that's used by 62.06% of gamers, fair enough i can't argue with that, however shouldn't that same logic also apply to how much RAM was used? Steam shows less than 4% of gamers use more than 16GB and that's ignoring the fact that 64GB (4x8GB) RAM would set a typical gamer back £500-600.
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
kalniel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Iota
So Intel is implying their stock cooler isn't a good cooler by way of omission then? Consistency would mean running a Noctua cooler on all systems, or if thermal limitations can come into play, then they should all be using the stock shipped coolers. That way if it's going to throttle, that'll become apparent.
I think if you mandated shipped coolers the i9 would throttle very very quickly... it doesn't come with a cooler :p
It's because it doesn't NEED a cooler... Sheeesh :P
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
Corky34
64GB (4x8GB) RAM would set a typical gamer back £500-600.
Erm... maths? :eek:
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
Smudger
Erm... maths? :eek:
4 x 8 = 64. Well known fact. :p
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
Iota
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Smudger
Erm... maths? :eek:
4 x 8 = 64. Well known fact. :p
Everyone knows that it's 4 x 8 + (HT) 4 x 8. Ergo 64! :P
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
Smudger
Erm... maths? :eek:
It's Intel maths. ;)
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
azrael-
Everyone knows that it's 4 x 8 + (HT) 4 x 8. Ergo 64! :P
You win the thread. :clapping:
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
So Intel (via PT tech...or should that be unPT?) blackens their already manky reputation for dishonesty, chicanery and borderline illegality. Hopefully this will only drive more customers away from them.
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
ohmaheid
So Intel (via PT tech...or should that be unPT?) blackens their already manky reputation for dishonesty, chicanery and borderline illegality. Hopefully this will only drive more customers away from them.
What was the name of that dodgy company they used (or set up) to investigate all the "security issues" with AMD chips after Spectre / Meltdown? Intel are heading very rapidly into my no go zone. If they're willing to be this dishonest and treat me like this much of a moron, what are they gonna be like if I have a problem and need after sales help?
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Iota
Quote:
Originally Posted by
azrael-
Everyone knows that it's 4 x 8 + (HT) 4 x 8. Ergo 64! :P
You win the thread. :clapping:
Just pointing out the obvious... :D
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
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Originally Posted by
philehidiot
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ohmaheid
So Intel (via PT tech...or should that be unPT?) blackens their already manky reputation for dishonesty, chicanery and borderline illegality. Hopefully this will only drive more customers away from them.
What was the name of that dodgy company they used (or set up) to investigate all the "security issues" with AMD chips after Spectre / Meltdown? Intel are heading very rapidly into my no go zone. If they're willing to be this dishonest and treat me like this much of a moron, what are they gonna be like if I have a problem and need after sales help?
it's CTS-Labs.
I think Intel has done similar dirty tricks in the past, back in the days of the Athlon processors.
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Re: Principled Technologies (PT) responds to i9-9900K test queries
I updated the story with the latest updated PT benchmarks PDF from Friday evening.
https://hexus.net/media/uploaded/201...de2cf571d8.png