Windows 10 19H1 allows removal of more pre-installed apps

[peterb]

I'm probably past the point of no return - I have a couple of legacy applications that run on Win7. They won't be updated so should continue to run.

The only possibility would be some hardware device that only came with windows based configuration tools - but they are fairly rare these days.

[Saracen]

Fair enough. At this point they still have a chance with me as Windows 7 is still supported and I haven't had a need that forced me to switch yet (such as getting a newer system that Windows 7 is blocked from providing updates for), but the time left to convince me is shrinking further and further.

Indeed. There comes a point where I felt I had to migrate .... either to Win10 or to something that wasn't, and for me it was partly about Win10 itself, but also partly about what Win10 and some corporate statements suggested was MS's overall direction of travel and it was that that was the proverbial straw.

So my logic was, I can keep some legacy stuff on legacy hardware and un-updated Win7 provided it's airgapped. That preserved some unique software and some peripheral support.

Then, for largely day to day stuff, is Linux (or whatever) a viable option? Quite of bit of time and testing said "yes".

So .... if I don't like MS's overall strategic direction, and I now have a viable alternative (ehich I did) do I jump now (well, baack then) or wait?

That was, for me, the critical question. Do I see MS changing course if I waited? Not snytime soon, and not by anything like enough. So, I figured it's like jumping into a coldush swimming pool - just get it over with,

Even now, MS have not, or not yet changed course that I would have stayed had I known. They may do so but I'm still not convinced they will.

But all these factors are add up to a very personal choice. For me, moving was right. For others it may not be, may not be yet or may never be,

[peterb]

Microsoft (and others - notably Adobe) are moving towards a subscription model for services - and I would think in around 10 years time, Windows itself will be a monthly or annual subscription service. You might get a very basic file management system for free, but any other features will require a subscription - or the whole thing might need a subscription.

How exactly that will be enforced remains to be seen, but the writing was on the wall (but hastily removed) back when XP was introduced.

[spacein_vader]

Microsoft (and others - notably Adobe) are moving towards a subscription model for services - and I would think in around 10 years time, Windows itself will be a monthly or annual subscription service. You might get a very basic file management system for free, but any other features will require a subscription - or the whole thing might need a subscription.

How exactly that will be enforced remains to be seen, but the writing was on the wall (but hastily removed) back when XP was introduced.

I don't recall anything subscription based being mooted for XP? Am I missing something?

[peterb]

I don't recall anything subscription based being mooted for XP? Am I missing something?

IIRC it was suggested very early on - possibly for corporate/enterprise editions - but I think the Corporate market was not ipressed - and Microsoft hadn't quite got such a grip on that segment. It was a while back and I can't recall the details. It came from someone quite senior in a multinational.

[Output]

So .... if I don't like MS's overall strategic direction, and I now have a viable alternative (ehich I did) do I jump now (well, baack then) or wait?

That was, for me, the critical question. Do I see MS changing course if I waited? Not snytime soon, and not by anything like enough. So, I figured it's like jumping into a coldush swimming pool - just get it over with,

Even now, MS have not, or not yet changed course that I would have stayed had I known. They may do so but I'm still not convinced they will.

But all these factors are add up to a very personal choice. For me, moving was right. For others it may not be, may not be yet or may never be,

I too see it as being highly unlikely that they will change course, but I prefer to hold out hope on that slim chance for as long as possible until a need forces my hand.

[Saracen]

Microsoft (and others - notably Adobe) are moving towards a subscription model for services - and I would think in around 10 years time, Windows itself will be a monthly or annual subscription service. You might get a very basic file management system for free, but any other features will require a subscription - or the whole thing might need a subscription.

How exactly that will be enforced remains to be seen, but the writing was on the wall (but hastily removed) back when XP was introduced.

That's partly the 'future direction' I mentioned. Whether it happens or not remains to be seen but lots point at it. And I am NOT paying a subscription for a PC OS. I quit upgrading Photoshop (after about 15 years) when they did that and MS can stick that idea in the same place Adobe can, for my money. Not saying lots of users aren't going to prefer it, but among me, myself and I, it ain't EVER happening. I'll trash the PCs and give up computing first. Seriously. No exaggeration.

[Saracen]

I too see it as being highly unlikely that they will change course, but I prefer to hold out hope on that slim chance for as long as possible until a need forces my hand.

That's pretty much what happened. It wasn't exactly a single need, and I do have W10 on a test drive (that never sees the rest of my network, even the public-facjng bit, and can go months without being used), but it was more a case of the convenience of just biting the bullet and getting it over with outweighed the case for waiting. Maybe that's a sort-of need but not quite what I think yoh meant.

[philehidiot]

I personally don't have a problem with a subscription model as long as the price is right. I think there should be an option like there is with Office - either buy it outright and be limited to that version with updates for bugs and security or subscribe and get updates as they come out. As I said, the price has got to be right and MS must prove they're adding meaningful features worth my continued investment. Which up to now, they are not.

[Output]

Maybe that's a sort-of need but not quite what I think yoh meant.

The sort of need I was thinking about was more along the lines of a completely new system (CPU, Motherboard and all), which due to being of a new generation would be one that Microsoft has hobbled Windows 7 from updating on (and may not be possible to even install onto - although I'd probably do a search to see if someone on the internet has managed to get it reliably working and updating on such a system).

I'd obviously need to put an OS on said new system, and so it would be that point to force my hand. I could probably transfer my (retail) Windows 7 installation into a VM on the new system, but it probably wouldn't be as effective as it would be on bare-metal.

Windows 7 support ending entirely would also force my hand, but I expect it to be more likely that I have a new system before that time anyway.

On the subject of software subscription models, I can see how both sides could find it beneficial depending upon usage requirements - such as one person having a need to use some Adobe tools for a month for whatever reason, but couldn't afford to buy it outright if it had been on the previous purchase-once model, and someone who prefers to buy once and use it whenever they want for years to come.

Rather than fully switching to subscription models however, I think companies should have both ways available as a choice rather than going subscription-only as Adobe did.

A Desktop Operating System however is something that I would say should always be a buy once model if it is charged for, not subscription-based.

[philehidiot]

The best thing about Photoshop?

GIMP.

[Output]

The best thing about Photoshop?

GIMP.

If I recall correctly, PhotoShop is usually said (although I forget where I may have read it) to run well in WINE these days. Whether that only applies to certain versions however, I don't know.

Sure, GIMP is a native option, but due to the above it's not necessarily a change that would have to be made for a PhotoShop user (or at least not as soon, there could be more of a transition if wanted).

[AGTDenton]

What software did you use?

There was something I used to use for WinXP customisation, I don't even remember what it was called now.

Is it possible to remove all that after installation?
Have you faced any problems not having Edge in your system?

I did it myself with 100s of tutorials and references. This is because I like to understand whats under the hood, prior to this news I was actually going to get NTLite for 1809, however I shall now skip this. The key to removing 85-90% of the software boiled down to 1 line of code.
If I ever got the time I'd detail it somewhere.

I have not noticed any issues with Edge not being there. Cortana and Search are big problems once blocked. However, we are in a closed Environment where only a single application is used. Having search meant the whole system was open, it ignores all the blocks you put in place for users to browse the system so we had no choice but to block it.

Yes NTLiteOS was and still is the best imo. When he did a disappearing act for W7 I had to make my own customisations, though 100x easier than W10 because very little was soiled in.

[Saracen]

If I recall correctly, PhotoShop is usually said (although I forget where I may have read it) to run well in WINE these days. Whether that only applies to certain versions however, I don't know.

Sure, GIMP is a native option, but due to the above it's not necessarily a change that would have to be made for a PhotoShop user (or at least not as soon, there could be more of a transition if wanted).

If the user switches to Linux but wants to carry on with Photoshop that might be an option. But, presumably, PS is still subscription-only for new versions, or anybody that can't find a legit old version (*note), whether running on Windows or Linux/WINE.

Speaking personally, that is one of the reasons I still have an (air-gapped) Win7 system .... with Photoshop, legit but old. I'll,continue using that until/unless it's not sufficient, at which point, GIMP it is. What I won't do is Photoshop subscription. Ever.





* Note - Yes, I know there are pirate versions out there. I even tried one. But I prefer to stick to a legit version even if it's older.

But also, while HEXUS ackowledges pieacy happens, I'll just add before anyone "helps" with links or advice, how-to's and help on piracy are NOT something we allow. So please, don't go there on here.

[Saracen]

I personally don't have a problem with a subscription model as long as the price is right. I think there should be an option like there is with Office - either buy it outright and be limited to that version with updates for bugs and security or subscribe and get updates as they come out. As I said, the price has got to be right and MS must prove they're adding meaningful features worth my continued investment. Which up to now, they are not.

The key thing for me, be it Adobe or MS, or anybody else is choice.

I have absolutely no problem with a subsvription model being available for those that prefer it, a la Office 365 ....provided those that don't prefer it still have the 'buy and pay once' option.

Why?

For me, the decision to buy or not is about, on one side, my evaluation of the current/future benefifs of the current version, and on the other side, cost. In part, this is because I don't automatically upgrade.

I'm still on Office 2010 (on my Win7 systems), because it does all I need. Why pay out month after month, or year after year,

Even worse is Photoshop. If I have a project, I might use it intensively for a week or three, then not touch it for 6 months. Why keep paying out?

On the other hand, a family member uses it a fair bit all the time and subscribes. For them, sub works. For me, emphatically not.

My issue with Adobe is lack of choice, and with MS, it's the roadsigns suggesting they're travelling the same road. Eventually. That's why I took the Linux road instead, and have yet to regret it or miss MS.

[spacein_vader]

Even worse is Photoshop. If I have a project, I might use it intensively for a week or three, then not touch it for 6 months. Why keep paying out?

On the other hand, a family member uses it a fair bit all the time and subscribes. For them, sub works. For me, emphatically not.

Surely in those use cases the reverse is actually true? You could subscribe for 1 month, do what you need and then unsubscribe for the next 6 months or whatever until you need it again. Equally the family member who needs it all the time would be better off paying the up front cost as over time their constant use will bring the cost of ownership below a subscription.