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Thread: Windows 10 19H1 allows removal of more pre-installed apps

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    Re: Windows 10 19H1 allows removal of more pre-installed apps

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    The key thing for me, be it Adobe or MS, or anybody else is choice.

    I have absolutely no problem with a subsvription model being available for those that prefer it, a la Office 365 ....provided those that don't prefer it still have the 'buy and pay once' option.

    Why?

    For me, the decision to buy or not is about, on one side, my evaluation of the current/future benefifs of the current version, and on the other side, cost. In part, this is because I don't automatically upgrade.

    I'm still on Office 2010 (on my Win7 systems), because it does all I need. Why pay out month after month, or year after year,

    Even worse is Photoshop. If I have a project, I might use it intensively for a week or three, then not touch it for 6 months. Why keep paying out?

    On the other hand, a family member uses it a fair bit all the time and subscribes. For them, sub works. For me, emphatically not.

    My issue with Adobe is lack of choice, and with MS, it's the roadsigns suggesting they're travelling the same road. Eventually. That's why I took the Linux road instead, and have yet to regret it or miss MS.
    I would add that there are also situations where you don't want the subscription model changing things constantly. An example being my parents. They haven't grown up with computers and don't have the intuition for where functions might be and so on. They have to learn it parrot fashion and so when the layout of Hotmail changes it completely throws them to the point of frustration and anger. Given this scenario, I advise them to buy outright and I teach them to use one version of Office. For me and the missus, it works out better for us to get the subscription model. This enables full use on three PCs and two mobile phones with a shared onedrive and all that malarky.

    As you say, the issue is the choice of how and what to purchase.

  2. #34
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    Re: Windows 10 19H1 allows removal of more pre-installed apps

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    If the user switches to Linux but wants to carry on with Photoshop that might be an option. But, presumably, PS is still subscription-only for new versions, or anybody that can't find a legit old version (*note), whether running on Windows or Linux/WINE.
    True, but my point was that any users who feel that they absolutely MUST be able to use PhotoShop, rather than immediately switching to an alternative such as GIMP, don't necessarily have to be without it.

    And that it could be beneficial to help them possibly transition from one to the other if they feel that GIMP can handle what PhotoShop does for them after all.

    As I said, I don't know if the compatibility only applies to certain versions, so it might only be the versions purchased outright (i.e those before the switch to the subscription model) that would run, but I was pointing out that switching might not necessarily have to be such an extreme change for users as some may fear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Speaking personally, that is one of the reasons I still have an (air-gapped) Win7 system .... with Photoshop, legit but old. I'll,continue using that until/unless it's not sufficient, at which point, GIMP it is. What I won't do is Photoshop subscription. Ever.
    Which is of course an option that others could take too if they have the space to keep more than one system. Some however may prefer to do a full switch of their main system without an alternative in place, although another option could be running a Virtual Machine with the OS they were using (if retail) and PhotoShop.

    As for you being adamant that you would never switch to Adobe's newer subscription model for PhotoShop, I understand that and as I said I see both sides of it for the reasons I stated in my earlier post, but not everyone necessarily has the same ability to make that choice (for example, if they hadn't bought a license before Adobe went subscription-only).

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    * Note - Yes, I know there are pirate versions out there. I even tried one. But I prefer to stick to a legit version even if it's older.

    But also, while HEXUS ackowledges pieacy happens, I'll just add before anyone "helps" with links or advice, how-to's and help on piracy are NOT something we allow. So please, don't go there on here.
    I wasn't even thinking of suggesting such a route (and I know that point is aimed generally just in case anyone was thinking about it, but I am just stating it to be clear).

    As you said, we all know that such an option is there for those who look, but I am only talking in regards to legitimate copies anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by spacein_vader View Post
    Surely in those use cases the reverse is actually true? You could subscribe for 1 month, do what you need and then unsubscribe for the next 6 months or whatever until you need it again. Equally the family member who needs it all the time would be better off paying the up front cost as over time their constant use will bring the cost of ownership below a subscription.
    I know that's not addressed to me, but you probably also need to take into account that Saracen may already have had many years of usage out if it previously, meaning that it still works out better for his owned copy regardless.

    The family member using it all of the time however, may indeed be better of with an owned copy too for the reasons I stated in my earlier post that you are agreeing with there.

    Unfortunately, that's probably not an option due to Adobe not offering owned licenses any more - although I guess a small bright side of that, if they were to feel such a thing was important, is that they are always able to use the very latest version.
    Last edited by Output; 21-10-2018 at 11:49 PM.

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    Re: Windows 10 19H1 allows removal of more pre-installed apps

    Quote Originally Posted by spacein_vader View Post
    Surely in those use cases the reverse is actually true? You could subscribe for 1 month, do what you need and then unsubscribe for the next 6 months or whatever until you need it again. Equally the family member who needs it all the time would be better off paying the up front cost as over time their constant use will bring the cost of ownership below a subscription.
    Well, there no longer is an up-front cost option, or the fsmily member may have taken it.

    As for me, as I said (and Output deferred to) I already have a paid-for version, having been a user for many years. Since about PS3, IIRC. And before that, a product called Picture Publisher, which I doubt will be remembered by many, but was a similarly-priced high-end package.

    Which means, for me, are the new/improved features worth the upgrade cost? If I decide they are, then I fork out my £180-ish, and have that new version fir as long as I need it. That could be two years, could be 20 years.

    In any event, as I said I can see what new/improved features are available and decide to upgrade, or not. What I don't have is either the cost of monthly chargss, ir the faff and hassle of subscribing, then unsubscribing, and repeat, every time I want to use it.

    Suppose I unsubscribe, then a week later want it for a teo-minute tweak? Now what? Pay for a month, for 2 minutes? And, what happens when I unxubscribe, to installations? Uninstall, then re-install to use?

    If it's a paid-fir version, I make a buy or not buy decision ONCE, and if I do, then new features are available permanently. If I don't, then changes or additions aren't there, but the version I already had still is, instantly ready, zero faff

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    Re: Windows 10 19H1 allows removal of more pre-installed apps

    Quote Originally Posted by Output
    ....

    Which is of course an option that others could take too if they have the space to keep more than one system.

    ....
    Erm, not if they do it right.

    My main test system has, ummm .... a split personality. That is, a multi-bay, trayless disk bay cage. And, I have multiple identical drives.

    So, for example, Disks 1 through 4 are system 1, with D1 being Primary boot, D4 being Primary Data.

    Then, Disks 5 through 8 are a duplicate, so before doing upgrades, I can duplicate and test the entire disk storage subsystem. Upgrades, etc, can be done to the duplicate without risking the primary

    Disks 9 and 10 are a specific configuration with special software, running Win7. 9 is boot, 10 applications and data. I can add an extra disk if need be.

    Disks 11 and 12 are similar, but a different set of uses.


    Then, there's SSD's. With a 3.5 to 2.5 adapter, I can boot ftom a couple of different SSDs if need be, so I can test all-mechanical, all solid-state or a mix.

    And a few spare disks give me the option to build other variations, if need be, and of course, give me spare drives sitting nicely protected in a cupboard in case a dtive fails.

    And all that is on ONE physical system. At last count, I think I had 13 or 14 (inc laptops) machines, physical systems, here for one thing or another though these days, the need is largely historic as I'm winding down, and could (that is, when I get around to it) probably rationalise and dispose of about two thirds of them maybe more.

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    Re: Windows 10 19H1 allows removal of more pre-installed apps

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Erm, not if they do it right.

    My main test system has, ummm .... a split personality. That is, a multi-bay, trayless disk bay cage. And, I have multiple identical drives.
    You make a good point, I hadn't considered that option.

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    Re: Windows 10 19H1 allows removal of more pre-installed apps

    Are the uCode patches enabled for ALL the Intel CPUs that have them available?

    i.e. can you run something older than Sandy Bridge and get Spectre mitigations enabled?

    Is variant 3a and 4 patched on these systems? The current patch levels in 1709 & 1803 (and 1809) make this a crapshoot.

    Does anyone run Insider builds on anything this old?

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