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Action is due to worries about Chinese espionage via critical networking equipment.
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Action is due to worries about Chinese espionage via critical networking equipment.
Part of me wouldn't be surprised if the chinese government was using some "functionality" in their equipment to spy but I also wouldn't be surprised if the US and UK wanted it removed because it prevented them from spying!
I'm not surprised MI6 wants rid of the Huawei equipment. It probably prevents MI6/CIA from installing back-door hacks into its equipment.
It is a sad state of affairs when I actually would rather have a foreign agency snoop on my data than my own govt.
And curiously there's a widespread data service outage on mobile networks today....
It is - when you reject a regulated system used for the protection of this country and its law abiding citizens for one that is unregulated and dedicated to industrial and military espionage against this country, affecting the economy and indirectly your security, safety and wealth.Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCycle
From what I’ve read on Wired UK, the issues with O2 (and various other operators around the world) stem from Ericsson’s infrastructure.Quote:
Originally Posted by scaryjim
I feel exactly the same. What Snowden revealed was eye-opening. It was our own government! Yet nobody seems to care. Since then things only got worse as commercial companies (Facebook etc.) sell our sensitive private data to whoever can pay for --- all for $$$ for the rich.Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCycle
Not to mention western telecoms enjoy the status quo / monopoly whilst having waaay too much influence in the government's legislation through lobbying (bribes). My Huawei mate 10 pro is probably the best £300 I've spend in a long while. Just a short burst & middle finger to big western conglomerates and good stuff for customers...not for long though. American telecoms already banned Huawei phones using the "classic" fear strategy (just like when corporate pigs went for oil after 9/11 excuse)
it took them 4 years to remove spying equipment? and to all these ...people saying its better when another country is spying on them is better, how dumb can you be? is like saying youd prefer taking a beating from someone else than your mother...
And I’m sure the Chinese intelligence services are very grateful to you. Pity Snowden didn’t reveal Chinese/Russian activity rather than betraying is own country and putting the lives of his fellow countrymen at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonister
anyone been keeping tabs on what it's like for people in China?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a7375221.html
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/chin...ivacy-invasion
Social benefits linked to citizenship score by 2020, using data garnered from state surveillance of social media etc. A poor rating = removal of travel permits, the type of job you can apply for etc etc. They even look at what you buy!
To have this system and openly implement it requires a serious data gathering and mining capability. Don't be naive. They ARE doing this. And what makes you think that won't apply to people outside the country?
https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...llance/552203/
Let me see.....America, Canada, Australia etc, are Democracies whereas China is communist ? The Chinese harvests body parts from minorities who don't tow the Communist line. China steals intellectual property, conducts industrial espionage, tries to buy all the precious minerals only to have a monopoly on their value, takes advantage of pacific nations by giving them loans they can't repay, illegally stealing Spratley islands off Philippines and declaring international trade route as Chinese territory. Takes full advantage of free trade agreement by breaking all the laws, Charges 40% tariff on all U.S cars etc. All I can say is, better late then never. Mind you the mainstream media will be backing China that's for sure.
Interesting that Snowden gets called the traitor (I'm presuming "etrayinh" was meant to say "betraying") with no acknowledgement of the US betraying their own citizens. We all know Russia and China aren't exactly trustworthy, but it seems like they have somewhat successfully managed to deflect a fair amount of wrongdoing despite openly wanting to completely break encryption despite all of the compromises they get. I Have to agree that I have little faith in the UK or US. When you can't trust your own country, who can you trust?Quote:
Originally Posted by peterbAnd I’m sure the Chinese intelligence services are very grateful to to. Pity Snowden didn’t reveal Chinese/Russian activity rather than etrayinh is own country and putting the lives of his fellow countrymen at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonister
*walks in and sees ridiculous tin foil hat claims*
Nope.exe
*double times it back out*
Employers already check social media in western countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by ik9000
You mean like advertising companies do in western countries?Quote:
Originally Posted by ik9000
Why would another country's government be particularly bothered about individuals in another country? And why would those individuals be bothered whether that foreign government is bothered? It's not much different from the numerous companies who already farm that sort of information in western countries. While I agree about it being incredibly sinister, how much effect would it really have on non-citizens? Said companies likely have more ability to act on such information than a foreign government.Quote:
Originally Posted by ik9000
They're hardly traits unique to China now, are they? Lets see how many non-Chinese countries exploit other countries for wealth or resources, charge tariffs where it suits them, conduct industrial espionage, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by albert89
Wasn't there a story about how the NSA played a part in US espionage on Airbus, on behalf of Boeing?
Again I'm not saying these things aren't legally or morally questionable, but I find the whole 'China is evil and the source of all our problems' witch hunt a bit tiresome, if not hypocritical...
Did you read the links I posted? They put it far better than I can be fit in a forum length summary
I already know about the system you're referring to. I'm not saying I agree with it, not in the slightest.
It is. China can't prosecute/persecute UK citizens for wrongthink. China is only really interested in state level information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejuvination
That's pretty much what I was trying to say, but you worded it better I think!Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
Another country may or may not be interested in national infrastructure. Your average person as an individual? I doubt they'd bother wasting resources.
Probably down to the NSA/Five Eyes, Swedish security services & Mossad up to their old tricks again.:surprised::secret:Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy75
https://theintercept.com/2015/09/28/...nsa-operation/
all well and good saying for 4G &5G networks but BT and others use Huawei for MSAN's and DSLAMS in the access network. No mention of this gear being removed.....
As far as I understand it these aren't considered part of the core network infrastructure so not really such a great security threat. I'm probably wrong but that was how I understood it.:confused::telephone:Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsonian
This story is specifically about core mobile network equipment only - BT also said the following:
DSLAMs/MSANs on the fixed line infrastructure also lie outside of the core network and there's little reason to panic replace equipment just for the sake of it. Edge network equipment like this has little ability to reroute or modify traffic in the same way as higher level equipment closer to the core, and going around replacing edge equipment would be both silly and financially catastrophic.Quote:
Huawei remains an important equipment provider outside the core network, and a valued innovation partner
Likewise, as that quote says, BT/EE will still be partnering and using equipment from Huawei for much of their mobile infrastructure, e.g. I imagine much of the RAN equipment, optics, etc. There's a clear distinction between what could be sensible or informed precautions (possibly neither, just making an assumption that they're doing it for a reason rather than jumping on the witch-hunt bandwagon), and plain hyperbole like how many places seem to be interpreting this information.
Edit: Beaten to it!
Edit2: Much of the BTW core equipment is or was Cisco or Alacatel-Lucent (as well as a few others) anyway so unless BT have started buying Huawei core equipment more recently, this likely doesn't have any impact on the BT Wholesale network, just the ex-EE network.
No you explained much better than I could with my limited knowledge................ ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by watercooled
I mean as far as VDSL DSLAMs go, BT have two main vendors, Huawei and ECI. I don't know that ECI are necessarily any better from a security standpoint. And in terms of everyday performance and serviceability, the Huawei kit has served Openreach better with regard to adding features, capabilities, etc. ECI cabinets miss out on many of the more recent features like vectoring, SRA, G.INP as far as I know.
Some people here can't see the forest for the trees. They are upset for the China/Russia spying while it is estimated that there are 500,000 CCTV cameras dotted around London. HA HA HA!!
Used for the detection and prevention of crime - but I guess you think that safety of of the population of London is not worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Amstrad
But if your were hit by a hit and run motorist, I suspect you would be quite pleased if the incident was fought on CCTV leading to a conviction and compensation.
Years of brain washing does its job...There are over 1m Daily Mail readers who feed on that fear propaganda.... And yes, sometimes cctv turns out to be good but at what cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Amstrad
It does, too many people brainwashed into unwarranted suspicion about things ranging from smart meters to mobile phones. The threat isn’t from the state, it’s from organised crime. The brainwashing/conspiracy theory power of (anti) social media.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonister
The "safety" card is always played when no other valid arguments are available.Quote:
Originally Posted by peterbUsed for the detection and prevention of crime - but I guess you think that safety of of the population of London is not worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Amstrad
But if your were hit by a hit and run motorist, I suspect you would be quite pleased if the incident was fought on CCTV leading to a conviction and compensation.
If the government is so concerned about your "health & safety" why don't they do something about the horrendous level of pollution in London. It kills thousands of British people every year, and contributes to various health issues thruoghout your life. Or, why don't they do something about the atrocious level of poverty and homelessness in London, where hundreds of people die on streets or fall into mental health problems "at best". Just few months ago homeless lady died on my eyes in central london - not a "big issue" because it's not Chinese spy affair worthy of a Daily Mail headline, right.
Tell you why it's not a biggie for the government, because your real health & safety is not in the interest of the people who lobby westimnster (corporations and privileged wealthy). If they could get away with it they would privatise NHS and profit of people's misery. Yet, knowing your behavioural patters and having all info about your life at their disposal means they can effectively control public opinion and get their way(as it was the case with Brexit "referendum mockery"). Info. is power and power is $$$ and £££.
The "safety" card has been used again and again....the losers here are 99% of population and the winners are the wealthy in power...whether it's oil (watch Fahrenheit 9/11 if you haven't) or your data (heard of Facebook) it doesn't matter. It's easier to manipulate people when they are in the "state of fear".
...and just to add that I'm not saying your (and my) safety isn't important but terrorism and spying has been given way too much attention. It should be way down the pecking order behind the issues that are really important and affect the most of us...poverty, declining living standards, mental health issues, climate change, crumbling public transport, vanishing pension, declining workers rights etc.
Terrorism killed less than 50 people in the UK the last few years. For comparison pollution kills 50,000 people in the UK every year and impacts health of milions contributing to cancer etc. Car accidents (which declined significantly) are below 2,000 casualties. Get a bit of perspective mate.
We don’t know how many acts of terrorism or other crime was prevented by law enforcement agencies and the consequent cost saving.
I agree with you to some extent about pollution and social issues - congestion charges and the promotion of EVs is being used to address those issues, and the spending on social care is increasing. But crime prevention is important for all levels of society and the homeless are particularly vulnerable.
You beat me to it!Quote:
Originally Posted by peterb
Sometimes we need to get some perspective.
Not sure I agree with the betraying his own country bit. Perhaps he was, but then again, the part of his own country was betraying its people. Perhaps we could call it a partially justified betrayal.Quote:
Originally Posted by peterb
They might not prosecute. Just manipulate instead like Russia does. Secondly, China and Russia is interested in individuals. Just not all. There are a large number of people that are in positions where they interact/have influence over government and/or national infrastructure. You don't know how useful you could be. There are plenty of examples but members of this board are generally a smart bunch and can probably work out plenty of scenarios where individuals could be targeted in this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by aidanjt
TBH in my experience, CCTV has been a complete and utter waste of time, effort and money due to general incompetence and resourcing. Footage always seems to either have been wiped due to age at the point an investigation began or not working.Quote:
Originally Posted by peterb
The threat from organised crime is far, far greater than any from the state, however with the state having such unrestricted access into everyones privacy and politics being so fickle, there is always a future threat that something you do that harms no one is the subject of some kind of moral panic or other and becomes illegal retrospectively for example. Sound paranoid? Just look at what's going on with tax right now. Schemes that were legal in the past have been ruled tax avoidance schemes and tax has been retrospectively applied. Whether you agree with tax dodgers being punished or not, the point is that people are being punished for doing something that was legal at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by peterb
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterb
Crime prevention and national security is important. I agree with you. However, full blown intrusion of privacy and distrust we have right now isn't a way forward. Not to mention there is a clear link between poverty and crime rates as well as invading someone's country to seize its natural resources and then dealing with disgruntled people of that country coming in and blowing things up - "lock'em up" Trump's mantra isn't going to take us far.
Congestion charge these days is nothing more than another income stream for the government just like "sugar tax". If CC was withdrawn today I would still not drive to central london because there is too much traffic. I actually doubt it makes any measurable difference in terms of reducing the traffic since roads are / will be jammed packed anyway. We need to "quit" fossil fuels and substantially improve public transport. Black cabs running on diesel, 4x4, and busses - just unacceptable. While oil pigs laugh all the way to the bank. Half hearted promotion of EVs - these are baby steps. We're not going to "save our planet" by only doing weekly recycling "bit" - we need stong and decisive actions where it really matters. Air quality in London is really bad and deteriorating. I live in London so am familiar with the issue e.g. every single day there is a long queue of black cabs iddling outside the King's cross station while cabbies read earlier mentioned gutter press. The council displayed a drawing done by children saying something along the lines of "stop iddling...it's bad for our lungs" - sweet but clearly ignored.
Exactly...we don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by peterb
Yet there are many things (problems) we do know yet willingly ignore because it's not entertaining enough
What an odd thing to say! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by EvilCycle