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Thread: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    You mean where when asked they didn't remove the empty div? My guess would be they were using it, that's the thing with modern web pages they are more a structure for scripts to manipulate so the fact it starts off empty doesn't mean it won't have something (knowing Google probably an advert) in it later.
    As you just said div's can be manipulated with scripts etc... MS found that this div was interfering with edge and nothing more (I'm sure MS have got plenty of tools to inspect all the code being triggered) yet google refused to remove it... take that as you will but to me that seems that the div was there primarily to slow down a 'better' browser (not that I actually use edge either but still) on youtube.

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Quote Originally Posted by lumireleon View Post
    ...and all people complaining about Huawei?? Western companies are the worst, no one aint looking there!
    What?

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    “YouTube does not add code designed to defeat optimizations in other browsers, and works quickly to fix bugs when they’re discovered,” says a YouTube spokesperson in a statement to The Verge. “We regularly engage with other browser vendors through standards bodies, the Web Platform Tests project, the open-source Chromium project and more to improve browser interoperability.”

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    MS found that this div was interfering with edge and nothing more
    "and nothing more" is the leap I have trouble making. MS isn't some all seeing deity, it is a bunch of people of varying skill levels and the usual mix of personality types and emotional baggage. They will indeed have tools to inspect code use, they must be whatever is built in to Edge else they can't see what is happening within Edge so you can play with those tools yourself. Personally I use the code inspection tools in Chrome and program in Linux, so I just wouldn't know if Edge is any good or not in that respect.

    But we all know people who at the first hint of trouble throw their arms up and say "they did this to us on purpose, it isn't fair" and it just sounds to me like that is the most likely scenario here. It also sounds like they got an unfortunate person in the lucky dip of who they talked to in Google where let's face it they could have been a lot more useful. I would expect on a conversation like that to be given a Jira number of the raised bug report, not a brush off.

    I see this as just people being people, not some corporate conspiracy. If you compare this to the Microsoft Halloween documents (yes that's a long time ago and I do believe Microsoft culture has improved a lot since then) that was a reaction to a definite and what at the time could be seen as an existential threat to Microsoft and so whilst I wasn't impressed with what they were doing I can understand how they got there. Compare that to what we are looking at here...

    ... what is Edge a threat to? Just how backed into a corner is Google?

    If I was asked to list web browsers it would take me a while to even remember that Edge exists. I would probably list the likes of Netscape Navigator before I got to Edge. Google just don't have a fight here, at least not something worth any level of risk to their reputation from intentional dirty tricks.

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Agree

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Different scenario - one is about data theft - the other is about crippling a competitors product.
    Huawei does a good job of crippling their own products already (no bootloader unlocks on their phones anymore)

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Coding web pages to run on all browsers has always been a challenge, but things improved with HTML5.

    MS Edge HTML5 video compatibility... For the first year or so after release, I tried everything I could think of to get my home website videos to play on Edge , to no avail and gave up...

    This post reminded me to check again and fantastic... they now work. So perhaps MS is now doing something right :-)

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    MS found that this div was interfering with edge and nothing more
    "and nothing more" is the leap I have trouble making. MS isn't some all seeing deity, it is a bunch of people of varying skill levels and the usual mix of personality types and emotional baggage. They will indeed have tools to inspect code use, they must be whatever is built in to Edge else they can't see what is happening within Edge so you can play with those tools yourself. Personally I use the code inspection tools in Chrome and program in Linux, so I just wouldn't know if Edge is any good or not in that respect.

    But we all know people who at the first hint of trouble throw their arms up and say "they did this to us on purpose, it isn't fair" and it just sounds to me like that is the most likely scenario here. It also sounds like they got an unfortunate person in the lucky dip of who they talked to in Google where let's face it they could have been a lot more useful. I would expect on a conversation like that to be given a Jira number of the raised bug report, not a brush off.

    I see this as just people being people, not some corporate conspiracy. If you compare this to the Microsoft Halloween documents (yes that's a long time ago and I do believe Microsoft culture has improved a lot since then) that was a reaction to a definite and what at the time could be seen as an existential threat to Microsoft and so whilst I wasn't impressed with what they were doing I can understand how they got there. Compare that to what we are looking at here...

    ... what is Edge a threat to? Just how backed into a corner is Google?

    If I was asked to list web browsers it would take me a while to even remember that Edge exists. I would probably list the likes of Netscape Navigator before I got to Edge. Google just don't have a fight here, at least not something worth any level of risk to their reputation from intentional dirty tricks.
    So lets sum up:
    1. Not the first time
    2. Youtube bing loses to google.
    3. Chrome does funny stuff with your privacy

    Honestly this time i trust MS.

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Don't forget how Google are also restricting other websites (e.g. autoplaying videos/audio, etc. Breaking sites like SoundCloud or at least making them change how they work) while whitelisting their own domains so they don't have to adhere to the same rules. Chrome is very quickly making its way up my rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishlist.

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Quote Originally Posted by spacein_vader View Post
    They've been pulling stunts like this for a while, like the one Mozilla flagged previously: https://www.techradar.com/news/mozil...ge-and-firefox

    The irony on MS suffering at the hands of another firms monopoly power (remember ActiveX?) is not lost on me.
    Didn't Microsoft get fined with one of the largest fines of all time for this practice? Google could be facing one of these as well.

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Quote Originally Posted by DevDrake View Post
    ...

    Honestly this time i trust MS.
    Fair enough, but personally I have trouble getting a sheet of rice paper between how much i trust either.

    Which regime would I prefer to live under - Hitler or Stalin?

    It's more "a pox on both their houses".

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Microsoft is adopting Chromium code because they've finally realized that whomever created and pushed Edge to completion is certifiably stupid. Yay maybe we'll finally see Edge go away! Take Cortana and all of your spyware telemetry with it!

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Quote Originally Posted by DaMoot View Post
    Microsoft is adopting Chromium code because they've finally realized that whomever created and pushed Edge to completion is certifiably stupid. Yay maybe we'll finally see Edge go away! Take Cortana and all of your spyware telemetry with it!
    Edge will still exist, so unless your issue with it was that it used its own rendering engine nothing much has changed.

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Quote Originally Posted by DaMoot View Post
    Microsoft is adopting Chromium code because they've finally realized that whomever created and pushed Edge to completion is certifiably stupid. Yay maybe we'll finally see Edge go away! Take Cortana and all of your spyware telemetry with it!
    I always thought it is good to have a choice if there is no perfect solution. And in case of big companies, they have to have big competition, otherwise they will give you minimal viable product.
    See the Windows phone for example - it was good for the market to have them there. Few good solutions comes from them to android and IOS world.
    Edge is not a bad browser - i am using it time to time and it does the job well on those occasions.
    Of course, the development circle of Edge is too slow to catch ff and chrome with overall user experience, therefore they will offer now less for less while a average user will think it is more.
    Win - Win ?

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    Quote Originally Posted by DaMoot View Post
    Microsoft is adopting Chromium code because they've finally realized that whomever created and pushed Edge to completion is certifiably stupid. Yay maybe we'll finally see Edge go away! Take Cortana and all of your spyware telemetry with it!
    Your answer would be hilarious if you are using Chrome as a main browser - but of course i cannot know that.
    You know - MS was attacked by mistrust for the telemetry this much that you actually have possibility to browse the telemetry that is collected from your devices. And that is a good thing.
    You cant do that with google.

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    Re: Google changes sites to break rival browsers: ex-Edge intern

    A better thing would be to get in-advance, explicit informed consent before doing it at all .... with default as 'no snooping'.

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